770410 - Conversation A - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770410R1-BOMBAY - April 10, 1977 - 31:24 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . always studying, for the last ten years. It is my conclusion that originally everything Indian, that is very, very high grade—for human society, for personal. That is actual human civilization. Everything— hygienic principles, Vedic knowledge, moral knowledge—everything perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (noise of children) I'm going to tell them to . . . (break) It's good to take rest now.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Otherwise it will increase. In your sickness, if you go on working, it will increase. Better take rest.

Devotee: Ginger, and keep warm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Last night you were translating a little bit.

Prabhupāda: I began, but . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You stopped.

Prabhupāda: No, stopped not for my incapability, but I stopped it feeling sleepy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I mean you are taking so little prasādam that it is not to be expected that you can do very much physical activity. But I can see one thing is that you are very now fully recovered and alert.

Prabhupāda: I think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think simply it is just weakness now, due to not . . . You know, you practically, it is like a fast. You've been maintaining a fast now for nearly two months.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I like that. If there is no appetite, what is the use of forcibly eating? When appetite will come, we shall eat. Natural. Nature's way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we are not at a loss, because we can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am chanting. If I am not writing, I am chanting. Of course, sometimes irregularity. What can be done in this physical impediment? Otherwise, I'll either chant or read book or write books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing: there has to be more . . . Yesterday you were questioning if we had an extra quantity of that, er, to fill up your container you have.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a container you have. You asked me if we could take the other container of one of the things that you use . . . Oh, tooth powder.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) Do you know where it is? It's in . . .

Bhavānanda: It hasn't been filled up?

Prabhupāda: It is filled up again.

Bhavānanda: It's filled up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, okay.

Prabhupāda: That Gopīnātha has done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Another thing I see on account of the fast . . . One of the reasons perhaps . . . One of the advantages of fasting is that the swelling is . . . Fasting cures diseases.

Prabhupāda: Diet treatment is very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a difficult treatment for the Westerners, because they have no self . . .

Prabhupāda: They want to be cured immediately. Go to the doctor: "Give me injection. Give me tablet. Cure me immediately." That is the Western treatment: immediately stop it. Here also. A man, a worker, he's earning twenty rupees a day, and the doctors also take advantage of this rational. "You want to be treated quickly or let . . .?" And naturally he will say, "Quickly." "Then you have to take injection." Injection means each injection at least five rupees. He may inject water.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do that sometimes.

Prabhupāda: They do that. This is going on. They do actually, I know. Unnecessarily, little distilled water, and take from him five rupees. If he gives him mixture, he cannot charge from him. But these innocent persons, they have earned. "You want to be treated very quickly or slowly?" He says that "I am earning twenty rupees per day. If required, I will give you so much money. And give me quickly." Everything cheating and . . . I know. I was in the medical line. Dr. Bose admitted. He was talking with me very freely because I was just like his son. "My dear boy, I sometimes cheat. We are most sinful." He said like that. "As soon as we find some rich person, unnecessarily we harass."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the business of the doctors and the lawyers.

Prabhupāda: Right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How to draw on the condition longer and longer to make more money.

Prabhupāda: And if the client is rich, draw.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have noticed that in the West now they have . . . They know that there are certain cures for serious illnesses, and they have outlawed these cures, because they will lose so much money.

Prabhupāda: Everything business. "Bring money. Bring money." Because money is the medium of sense gratification. They have been accustomed to sense gratification. Money is required. So bring money some way or other. And here, the civilization was plain living, simple living. Minimize the expenditure and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be happy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unless one lives plainly, he cannot develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.

Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the . . . That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . . Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . . All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the conflict.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any fool.

Prabhupāda: They have been made fools. There was monarchy. If there was political fighting between the monarch, fighting between two kings; and the general public, "We have no concern with this. Whoever you become king, you take the tax." That's all. Finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And the king will protect us."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We don't care which one." That was nice system.

Prabhupāda: Very nice system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unnecessarily people were not being killed.

Prabhupāda: And one fourth, what you have produced, give one fourth to the king. "You come here. See what I have produced. You take one fourth."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in Europe that system was there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was the world system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they say that that is backwards.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was studying world history in college, when I read this system—they call it feudal, feudal system—I was very peaceful in my mind. I was very interested how nice everything, orderly . . . I was impressed with the order. Of course, I did not understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but I could see it was much nicer. This is chaos, the present-day system.

Prabhupāda: There was fighting between two political parties. The cultivator is working on the field. One party soldier and, "Where is the other party's soldiers?" "I have seen, they have gone this way." The soldiers of the king, let them fight. Therefore all the soldiers, they assembled in Kurukṣetra. It had nothing to do with the public. Fighting is going on, killing is going on in that big place. They were peaceful. "You conquer, either Kauravas, we shall pay tax." That's all. Why the public should be drawn?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays they drop one atom bomb, a whole half the country, half the people destroyed.

Prabhupāda: Then whole meeting, people are coming, Russian people. When Indira is empowered they are coming to hear him, and he is gone. Rascals. What is the value of their vote? Sometimes giving vote here, sometimes giving vote there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you think that she will again become the prime . . .

Prabhupāda: Any moment she can become. It is a question of maneuvering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there is actually a possibility. Very dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Yes. People are rascals. If induce them, "Vote," they will vote. They have no choice actually, who is good or bad. Therefore it is said, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ (SB 2.3.19). Some rascal, fools, animals, they are voting, "Indira is very good," or "Desai is very good." So what is the value of? What they are? They are animals. You train the animals "Dance like this," he will dance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Even a monkey can be made to applaud.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So their vote, their adoration, what is the value? By whose adoration you have become big? Some monkeys and some fools, some rascals, some dogs. And formerly it was the king should be approved by saintly brāhmaṇas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. And when the brāhmaṇas did not approve, they had the power of brahma-tejaḥ. Just like with Veṇa. Even in our own Society, if someone is not doing nicely, then the others may . . . they come together and they say, "This person is not keeping the standard." It is not that because I have power or something, one can maintain his position.

Prabhupāda: Whole thing is spoiled, vitiated. And ultimately this human form of life, it is a chance given by nature. Tathā dehāntara, you become a dog next. Finished. And you wait millions of years again to come, take the human form. What can I do? These are in nature's law. And they are also prepared, "Oh, what is the wrong there, if I become dog?" This civilization. Just imagine how much spoiled it is.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If that's a fact, then let them become a dog now.

Prabhupāda: They are already dogs; otherwise how he is becoming dog? They have been already described. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. They are already . . . Therefore they are going to change it, the body. They are already cats and dogs. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). A doggish mentality, you will get a dog's body, infections. It is clear, nature's law.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This vision no one else has, except . . . I mean no one else has it, Śrīla Prabhupāda, except for you. It is there in the śāstra, but I don't think anyone else has realized it. There may be many other Vaiṣṇava ācāryas or something in India, but they are not . . . By the fact that they are not preaching, it means they have not realized it.

Prabhupāda: No, they realized. They had no opportunity. They wanted to preach.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they wanted to, wouldn't Kṛṣṇa have given them the opportunities?

Prabhupāda: Oh, I shall not doubt. They wrote comment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't mean in our line. I mean . . . Their writing is as good as preaching. I meant to say just like now there is this sampradāya and that sampradāya . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah, these are . . . Without this sampradāya, evaṁ paramparā, kick out on their face. All rogues and thieves.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These other . . .

Prabhupāda: I don't care for them. Immediately kick out. That is, sampradāya vihīna ye mantras te niṣphalā mataḥ (Padma Purāṇa). If he is not coming by this paramparā system, whatever he says, all nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about those who are coming in these other sampradāyas, like Rāmānuja sampradāya . . .?

Prabhupāda: They are bona fide if they are actually following.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was referring to them, that they are not preaching very widely.

Prabhupāda: Then they are useless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Because if they wanted to, Kṛṣṇa would have facilitated it.

Prabhupāda: Rāmānuja preached. All the ācāryas preached.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, either in writing or by traveling and speaking. You have done both, though.

Prabhupāda: That is the duty of ācārya. Otherwise he is not . . . Not that three dozen ācāryas in Māyāpur; each one has a temple and a few dozen . . . Not few dozen—one dozen disciples; bring some rice and eat; they are ācārya. That day I said that, khāi laya khasi bhaja(?), then everybody became angry. Collecting some money, taking to the holy place, collecting fifty rupees and keeping twenty rupees and spending thirty rupees. This is . . . In this way they are making livelihood, ācāryas. They say, "Whatever is in our capacity, we are doing." The capacity means when they are speaking that the cockroach is as good a bird as the Garuḍa. Cockroach is also a bird and Garuḍa is also a bird.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Quite a difference, though.

Prabhupāda: How the cockroach can say "I am also as good as Garuḍa"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is called insanity.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So they want to say like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Garuḍa eats timiṅgila fish as his diet.

Prabhupāda: No, he can eat. He flies from one planet to another. Just like one bird flies, he starts from one tree and takes rest another, the Garuḍa bird, they do that. They start from one planet and take rest in another planet. This is their flying. And while flying, they lay down eggs, and the eggs, while falling down, become birds. By the heat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's very scientific. Because normally the bird has to sit on the egg for producing heat to hatch the egg.

Prabhupāda: The heat is produced by the, what is called, motion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, friction.

Prabhupāda: Friction. And they become bird.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And their food?

Prabhupāda: Food, go to one planet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They eat big quantities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Big quantities mean according to . . . The ant is eating its quantity; elephant is eating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Garuḍa eats . . .

Prabhupāda: Whatever eating, he can eat. God has supplied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That teaching I also remember from the Bible. There's a statement that "Everyone is being supplied, so don't you think that God will also supply for you?" That's there in the Bible, I think, also. But the Christians, so-called, they don't heed it.

Prabhupāda: And therefore we challenge them, "Who is a Christian?" It is not a single one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, if one studies the life of Jesus, we live more like that than any so-called Christian.

Prabhupāda: So we have got very nice diamond. Try to sell. But if there is a purchaser, he will purchase. Otherwise not. It is our duty to canvass. But we cannot sell iron instead of diamond. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was just wondering about this, that we may be traveling around, and even here Your Divine Grace is not so fit for going to all of the ceremonies. Maybe you would like it if we were to keep a little Deity here.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In your apartment.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You don't need . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm. The Deity is there, fixed-up. That's all right. I was keeping Deity with me, but a constant change of this servant . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not nice for the Deities.

Prabhupāda: It is inconvenience.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially now, anyway, if we do this tīrtha traveling, then it will be difficult. That will be very nice. I think that I can start to make up an itinerary, that . . . There is a couple of devotees who have traveled a lot.

Prabhupāda: Now you try to manage the whole world organization, and all GBC men. Suppose I am not there. Manage very nicely, independently. Not to create havoc, but really to manage. I am still present; I will give you direction. Don't spoil it. We are in very good, prestigious position. That is sure. Don't spoil it. So much hard labor. I started with very humble condition. Now it has come to this, such exalted position. You don't spoil it. That is my request. Increase. That will depend on your character, behavior, preaching. Everyone knows. Everyone is astonished. Without any help, I started. Only asset was sincere . . . Everyone knows it. Otherwise how it is possible?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's our duty as your disciples, to preserve everything that you've done. (someone brings in some prasādam—some Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: Nim is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very cleansing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Fresh nim, it must be.

Prabhupāda: Nim you cannot take in any other way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't follow.

Prabhupāda: Nim, you cannot take it in other way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One way I have seen it is in śukta.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. By cooking?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes. That is possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's really Kṛṣṇa's mercy how such a bitter thing is yet palatable. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Take one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thank you very much. (end).