740206 - Conversation - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1974

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

740206R1-VRNDAVAN - February 06, 1974 - 31:26 Minutes

Prabhupāda: My Godbrother's son-in-law, they came to see me.

Gurudāsa: Any service for me?

Prabhupāda: What you are doing there now?

Gurudāsa: Um, I've just been talking with Saurabha about the Māyāpur plans to present at this conference in Vancouver, acquisition. We're making a presentation there.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gurudāsa: So we're getting that together. Tomorrow I'm leaving.

Prabhupāda: For Vancouver?

Gurudāsa: No, I'm go . . . tomorrow I'm going to join Bhavānanda for a week, Bhavānanda Swami. Then I go to Delhi to see . . . and I'm also going to Bhuvaneśvara for Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. Then I'm going to Delhi to see that American Ambassador again about putting our name on the food list, Indo-American food list, then Vṛndāvana, then Vancouver.

Prabhupāda: So gradually there will be . . . (indistinct) . . . go where?

Gurudāsa: New York.

Prabhupāda: New York. Delhi to New York?

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then go to the Western . . . (indistinct)

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: New York then . . . (indistinct)

Gurudāsa: I think it is direct. That I can do.

Indian man: America chala jayega. (Went to America.)

Prabhupāda: Idhar baithiye. Akele aya aap toh? (Sit here. You all came alone?) . . . (indistinct) . . . dekhiye kaise ye log sab prachaar kar rahe hai. (Just see how this boy is preaching.)

Indian man: Humare un karovar ke liye jaane ka vichaar tha wo toh kab jan jan ka sajjan hai. (I was thinking of going there for business purpose, but that will be after the business is established well, then will see.)

Prabhupāda: Kya? (What?)

Indian man: In relation with our business also, I am thinking of going.

Prabhupāda: No business. (laughter) Don't go. Business is this hari kīrtana. Dekho ye log business sab jaante hai. Toh unse business kaun karega? (Just see, they know how to do business very well. But who will do business with them?)

Guest (1): Anyway, kind of you. I just said that I had thought of that in my own different way also.

Prabhupāda: Business is bad.

Gurudāsa: People carry on business for happiness and enough to eat and enough clothing. That, no separate endeavor is necessary. Kṛṣṇa gives it all, and more happiness. We can attest to that because we did business. All of us were businessmen.

Prabhupāda: Humara ye sab prchar me kam se kam daily dus hazaaar aadmi ekhathe hote hai. Koi humara . . . (In our preaching program about ten thousand people attends everyday. Our nothing is) . . .

Guest (1): . . . koi kam nahi karta hai. (indistinct) . . . (Nothing falls short. The Lord only gives.)

Prabhupāda: Hum aise hi rehte hai. (indistinct) . . . (They stay here like this they are all well educated people) . . . (indistinct) . . . oh, I see that are . . . (indistinct)

Guest (1): No, I am not leaving. Whether Kṛṣṇa gives me fifty rupees or five million rupees, it does not make much difference, because I am in the line, because I am in the line.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Guest (1): I may leave any time.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right.

Guest (1): I may leave any time also.

Prabhupāda: That is our purpose to do something.

Guest (1): Unfortunately some things happened, and some court matters are going on.

Prabhupāda: Court?

Guest (1): Court matters, some, some lawsuits, etc., which I have filed which aggregate to the extent of about crore rupees or so.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Guest (1): Oh, I mean I'll get that much. That could be as good amount as you file . . .

Prabhupāda: Where? Where? Your claim?

Guest (1): Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: You have to . . . you have to pay so much stamping fee.

Guest (1): No. The maximum stamp duty to be paid is fifteen thousand. Even if you've got a claim of fifteen crores, fifteen thousand is the maximum stamp duty you have to pay. You don't have to pay more.

Prabhupāda: Fifteen thousand you have to pay?

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Anartheno nyaya rohita . . . in this age, Kali.

Guest (1): (indistinct Hindi) . . . he owes me money, and I couldn't get my money back from him.

Prabhupāda: If you have no money, then you cannot get justice, because he's claiming after all it is right claim, but if he had no fifteen thousand, then he could not claim it. Fifteen thousand is there, then . . . vaqil (. . . lawyer) so on, so on. So anyone who has no money, he cannot get justice in Kali-yuga. Anartheno nyaya rohita. Nyay milega hi nahi (You will not get justice) . . . (indistinct)

Guest (1): A lot of that fifteen thousand is exempted in some spaces, but even then you have to field yourself two times . . . (indistinct) . . . and remain in the . . . I mean present yourself in the court in the mood to argue and talk and all that things. So naturally if you don't have even that much, you have to forego . . . (indistinct) . . . what you're saying is hundred percent true. It's like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And nowadays bribe also.

Guest (1): Yeah. This is a must.

Prabhupāda: Fourth-class, śūdra . . . (indistinct) . . . bribe.

Guest (1): It is concerning one of the partners. . . . (indistinct) . . . another partner.

Guest (2): (indistinct) . . . they demand it as a bribe also.

Guest (1): (indistinct) . . . your partner like that?

Gurudāsa: Because blind leaders, we have allowed bribery to come about. In the passport line you have to stand because they suspect one thief. Every man who is a gentleman also has to stand and be inspected. It's Kali-yuga.

Guest (1): One thing is there: When I am worried about this thing or that thing, this is the place where I get peace of mind. I forget everything.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Guest (1): And I don't come here with any expectation, not for liberation or anyone or anything, this or that. I, what I get . . .

Prabhupāda: If you're getting . . .

Guest (1): I am liberated that very day. I don't care about the liberation of tomorrow. Yeah, that's true.

Gurudāsa: Yes, I understand. We are in the same boat.

Guest (1): Actually you are much advanced, so it will be very difficult for you to . . . I am still at the lower level and struggling against those things.

Gurudāsa: Only advanced because I'm putting more time in. Otherwise, not more advanced.

Guest (1): Yeah. Capacity has improved. Our capacity is still limited. We are still embroiled in the . . .

Gurudāsa: Advanced means such-and-such a person has spent so many times in the business house, twenty-five years, he gets a gold watch. The only reason I may be more advanced is 'cause I get peace of mind, too, so I stay longer. I don't go. (break) . . . Prabhupada from 1923 to '37

Guest (2): We have got an appointment. We have got . . . (break)

Guest (3): . . . somewhere. Saturday they close at . . . by 3 or 3:30, so I want to go before that.

Prabhupāda: You can go before 3:30. There is no difficulty. Prasadam be ready by half past twelve, one (laughter)

Guest (3): No, why bother? . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Prasāde sarva duḥkhānāṁ. (laughter)

Guest (3): Hānir asyopajāyate.

Prabhupāda: I can tell you one practical. So I have seen this instrument. Destiny is very strong. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Therefore śāstra says that you try for that thing which was not possible in many other lives. In each life everyone gets father, mother, son, and the father's duty to son, son, that is going on. When you take birth as demigod—Indra, Candra, Varuṇa—or as human being or as animal, the care-taking business is there. Even the small ant during rainy season, when there is overflood, they take the eggs on the head—you have seen the red ant?—and finding out some place. The care-taking is there. Even the birds, a sparrow. So when their . . . the season for laying down eggs, they bring some straws and keep like that to make a nest for taking care of the eggs.

So this taking care by the father and mother, beginning from the ant up to the Indra, Candra devas, that is there.

yas tv indragopam athavendram aho sva-karma-

bandhānurūpa-phala-bhājanam ātanoti

karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājāṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.54)

Indra, there is indragop, one very small insect. It is also called indra, indragop, insect. And another Indra is the King of heaven. So śāstra says from this Indra to that indra, everyone is bound up by his karma. It includes all others, from this indra to that Indra. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). Everyone is bound up by the resultant action of his karma. It cannot be changed.

So śāstra says don't try to change your karma-phala. Better utilize that energy for becoming advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you cannot change the destiny. That is not possible. Then shall I not endeavor for improvement of my economic . . . economic position? No. Why? I am, because destiny, whatever you have got your destiny, you'll get it. How shall I get it? Now suppose if you are put into some unwanted circumstances—you do not want it—you are forced to accept it. So similarly, as distressed condition comes upon you without your wanting, similarly, the position of happiness also will come , even you don't have to try for it. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham (SB 1.5.18). Just like distressed condition, unhappiness, nobody wants, but it comes by force. Similarly, the conditional happiness of life . . . because everyone's life is mixed up with some distress or happiness. Nobody can say: "I am simply happy." That is not possible. Distress is there, but nobody wants distress. But it comes. So why happiness will not come? So don't waste your time in this way, because you cannot change this. This will come, automatically. You try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which you never tried. And that is recommended.

And there is a Bengali verse, janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya (Prema-vivarta): to take care of oneself by the fathers, that is available in every life. Because the ant is also taking care. That is not human society, but he's still taking care. A tiger also taking care. The small cubs, they're loitering on the . . . on the body of the lion, and he is feeling very nice. Even monkeys, I have seen. One monkey came in the window, and she had one small child, and somehow or other the child came inside my room. She, that outside monkey, became mad after it. So I had to take . . . (laughs) The affection is there. The ant, they're affectionate; the snake affectionate; the tiger affectionate; the man is affectionate. That is given. Otherwise, who will take care? So therefore the Vaiṣṇava kavi says, janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya: in every life you'll get father and mother and their protection; kṛṣṇe guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei: but in every life you cannot get Kṛṣṇa and guru take care of. Because unless you get Kṛṣṇa and guru, then you are within the cycle of birth and death. And you get father and mother and their care, that is all right, but Kṛṣṇa-guru does not come in that way. That you have to search out. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kona bhāgyavān jīva guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti . . . (CC Madhya 19.151). Because Kṛṣṇa-guru will give you the nucleus of devotional life. So kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei (Prema-vivarta).

So actually, that is the fact. And I was going to tell about Śrīdhara Svāmī. Śrīdhara Svāmī was a great devotee, so he was thinking of taking sannyāsa. So he was contemplating that, "I shall now leave my home and take sannyāsa." So in the meantime, his wife became pregnant. Then he thought that, "I was thinking like that. Anyway, this has happened, and if I take sannyāsa now, what people will say, that 'His wife is pregnant and he has taken sannyāsa, he has gone out of home.' " So he waited, the child was born, and the mother died. (laughing) Then he thought, "I do not know what Kṛṣṇa desires. Who will take care of this child, motherless child?" So that he was thinking very deeply. One lizard dropped before him, one small child lizard. Maane, (Means,) gave birth to a child this small, and the small lizard was staying, and immediately small ant came before the mouth of that small lizard, and he ate. Then Śrīdhara Svāmī thought, "The every arrangement is there. Why I am thinking of this and that?" Immediately went away. Actually, that is the position. The actual care is taken by Kṛṣṇa, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is taking care of everyone.

Best thing is that we should devote our life for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his term is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra. It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. Anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa kaila.

So it is recommended in the human form of life first of all training as a brahmacārī, then he may remain as gṛhastha for sometime. The life is divided into four parts, twenty-five years. Suppose I live a hundred years: twenty-five years to become brahmacārī, remain as brahmacārī; and twenty-five years to remain as gṛhastha, family man; and twenty-five years as vānaprastha; and twenty-five years as sannyāsa. This is system, Vedic system. Sannyāsa means.. vānaprastha is the preparation for sannyāsa, and sannyāsa means completely dedicated to the service of Kṛṣṇa. This is our system. Just like you are spirit soul. Our business is not here. Our business in the spiritual world. Here, by circumstances, you have fallen into the material condition, but if we take, "This is all-in-all our duty," that is not advised in the śāstra. It is circumstances. We have fallen into . . . under certain circumstances, so we have to take care of. The real duty is to how to save myself from this material entanglement.

So our this institution, that is our ambition, that we are giving . . . trying to give facilities, at least to some intending person, especially retired person, to take advantage of this institution. As far as possible live, for we have got rooms like that. Live there and take little prasādam, and fully devote time how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is success of life. So it is authorized by the śāstras, pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Therefore you'll find still. But now the things have changed that every holy places there are so many men retired. (break)

Pradyumna:

. . . yuyutsuṁ samupasthitam

sīdanti mama gātrāṇi

mukhaṁ ca pariśuṣyati

(BG 1.28)

(break)

Prabhupāda: ". . . with my family member shall come to fight with me, so what shall I say, that I have to kill my nephew, I have to kill my brother, I have to kill my grandfather, this is the fight? No, no, I am not going to fight, let them all die." That is natural. So read it.

Pradyumna:

vepathuś ca śarīre me

roma-harṣaś ca jāyate

gāṇḍīvaṁ sraṁsate hastāt

tvak caiva paridahyate

(BG 1.29)

Prabhupāda: "So how can I kill my brother and nephew and others, family members? So my bow is dropping." Go on.

Pradyumna:

na ca śaknomy avasthātuṁ

brahmatīva ca me manaḥ

nimittāni ca paśyāmi

viparītāni keśava

(BG 1.30)

Prabhupāda: Yes, viparītāni. "I came to fight, to gain my kingdom, but I see the opposite." Viparītāni. "I'll not be able to enjoy my kingdom by killing them." That thing is said there. Go on.

Pradyumna: Ah, translation?

Prabhupāda: No, no. You can go on.

Pradyumna:

na ca śreyo 'nupaśyāmi

hatvā sva-janam āhave

na kāṅkṣe vijayaṁ kṛṣṇa

na ca rājyaṁ sukhāni ca

(BG 1.31)

Prabhupāda: Translation.

Pradyumna: "I do not see how any good can come from killing my own kinsmen in this battle, nor can I, my dear Kṛṣṇa, desire any subsequent victory, kingdom or happiness."

Prabhupāda: Naturally this will be. Then?

Pradyumna:

kiṁ no rājyena govinda

kiṁ bhogair jīvitena vā

yeṣām arthe kāṅkṣitaṁ no

rājyaṁ bhogāḥ sukhāni ca

(BG 1.32)

Prabhupāda: Generally we improve our material condition just to become happy with relatives. When we construct a new house, we invite relatives. So they may come, they will say: "Oh, you have done very nice," and he is also pleased, "My relatives, they have seen." But "If all the relatives are killed, then how it will be possible for me to enjoy the kingdom?" Yeṣām arthe kāṅkṣitam rājyam.

Pradyumna: Bhogāḥ sukhāni ca.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bhogāḥ sukhāni ca. Then?

Pradyumna: Ta ime 'vasthitā yuddhe.

Prabhupāda: "They, for whom I wanted this kingdom, they are in my path. I have to kill them. So what kind of fight is this?" Then?

Pradyumna:

. . . prāṇāṁs tyaktvā dhanāni ca

ācāryāḥ pitaraḥ putrās

tathaiva ca pitāmahāḥ

mātulāḥ śvaśurāḥ pautrāḥ

śyālāḥ sambandhinas tathā . . .

(BG 1.33-34)

Prabhupāda: "I have to kill them, all the religious and family members." Then?

Pradyumna: Etān na hantum icchāmi.

Prabhupāda: "I don't like. I don't want this fight." (laughs) Then?

Pradyumna: Ghnato 'pi madhusūdana.

Prabhupāda: "Then let them kill me. I'll tolerate that. But I am not going to kill them." Then?

Pradyumna:

api trailokya-rājyasya

hetoḥ kiṁ nu mahī-kṛte

nihatya dhārtarāṣṭrān naḥ

kā prītiḥ syāj janārdana

(BG 1.35)

Prabhupāda: So in this way he decided, or he made a plan, not to kill. From superficial, material point of view, he was very nice gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa actually chastised, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś . . . (BG 2.11): "You are talking like a very learned man, but you are fool number one." This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And then at last He said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am telling you," sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e . . . (BG 18.66): "What I say, you do. That means I am asking you to kill, you do that." So he said, kariṣye vacanam, "Yes." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "I do not like to do it, but Kṛṣṇa wants me to do, all right." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very difficult. (laughing) I do not like to do, but Kṛṣṇa likes to do, I have to do it. This decision is very good. (break) . . . a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, a devotee, is prepared to do anything nonsense for Kṛṣṇa, even in the estimation of ordinary person. People ask me that "You are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness and He is, say, encouraging war," because they have got experience of the last two wars in Western country. So when Kṛṣṇa encouraging the war, they do not take it very nicely. "What kind of God He is?" They have suffered in the war, and then we are presenting a God who is encouraging war. So there was one lawyer, you know, Goldsmith. He helped me, incorporated this . . .

Devotee: In New York.

Prabhupāda: New York, yes. He was very good friend. So he was asking that, "How it is good, Swāmījī, that Kṛṣṇa is encouraging war, fight?" Although Arjuna was making his own plan not to fight, Kṛṣṇa took the trouble for instructing him Gītā and then inducing him to change his plan, "Go on, fight!" (end)