760702 - Arrival - Washington D.C.

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760702AR-WASHINGTON DC - July 02, 1976 - 46:18 Minutes

(in car from airport)

Prabhupāda: . . . live? Is he finished, or if somewhere he is still living, nobody knows. You are keeping his memorial, but where is the actual person, they do not know. Suppose I have come here, and all of a sudden I go away, keeping my shirt and coat. And if you worship my shirt and coat and do not take care where I have gone, is that very good intelligence?

Bṛṣākapi: No, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Bṛṣākapi: We will worship your shirt and coat, though.

Prabhupāda: Lincoln, if you worship . . . where is Lincoln's temple? In Paris, I saw one park, Napoleon Bonaparte. You have been there?

Rūpānuga: Yes, Paris.

Prabhupāda: They identified "Napoleon is France." France is there, but where is Napoleon? They do not consider like this. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind man be happy that Lincoln was here, that's all. Where he is now? Or he's finished. If he's finished, why you are worshiping his shirt and coat? What is the answer? What is their answer? If he's finished, what is the use of worshiping his shirt and coat?

Vipina: They say that what he accomplished, although it may not be the final answer, it was a step forward, and therefore he should be worshiped.

Prabhupāda: Then his worship must be . . . that means after furnishing he is also finished? That is ignorance. That is not the fact. If he's finished, then what was the purpose of furnishing? There are so many questions in this connection, but they cannot understand. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is ignorance. This kind of civilization is civilization of darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ.

Rūpānuga: It looks like the devotees are the only people who are enlightened in this dark world. By your mercy, only the devotees can actually see anything properly and understand the condition.

Prabhupāda: In Russia, that Kruschev, he was . . . now, where he has gone, nobody knows. Finished. Nobody knows.

Hari-śauri: They retired him. They gave him a small place just outside Moscow.

Prabhupāda: You know that?

Hari-śauri: Yes, there was a story about five years after he got kicked out of office. He was just doing nothing, living by himself.

Prabhupāda: And what he has done? (laughter) Nothing, and what he has done?

Bṛṣākapi: They want to worship Kṛṣṇa, but they don't know how.

Prabhupāda: They don't want to worship anyone. They want to worship their senses, that's all. Sense gratification. What is dictated by the senses, they agree, that's all. Servant of the senses. In the material world nobody worships nobody. Everyone serves his own senses, "I like it." That's all. There is a Bengali song, cokhe yadi lage bhalo keno dekhbo na "If it satisfies my eyes, why shall I not see? I shall see." This is the sum-substance of . . . cokhe yadi lage bhalo keno dekhbo na. Everyone wants sense gratification, to be servant of the senses. If the senses want "Do this," he will do it. And our Movement is that we shall not hear the dictation of the senses, we shall do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is just opposite. So long I am carrying out the orders of the senses, then I am involved in this material birth, death, transmigration. Today I am running on this nice car. Next I can stand up here as a tree. Who can check it? After death you are completely under the . . . your life also completely under the laws of nature. So there is no discussion, no understanding, no knowledge about this. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change our body. What kind of body we are going to get, nobody knows. "This life is everything. This body is everything." Very risky. They do not inquire even wherefrom this body has come. They are also coming. They are also living. They are also eating. The trees, they are also eating water.

Vipina: Our distributors were in the airport not long ago, and they distributed a book to a man who has just recently written a book called The Fourth Kingdom. And he stopped off to visit our temple and talk with us, because he was impressed with the devotees and the literature, and he would like to come and speak to you.

Prabhupāda: You have arranged some engagement?

Vipina: Yes. If it's all right with you, he'll come. He's very nice, but he has some mixed-up ideas.

Prabhupāda: Everyone has mixed-up ideas because nobody is properly trained up. Some ideas they have got, inquiries they have got. But unless one comes to the right person, he cannot be enlightened. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore one must approach the proper guru.

Rūpānuga: Everyone has accepted the wrong authority.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rūpānuga: Everyone has accepted the wrong authority.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he's misled by sense gratification, so even he approaches a guru, if the guru cannot satisfy his senses, he doesn't like. Because he's under the subjugation of senses, he expects that guru also will satisfy his senses, then he is guru. If guru says something against his sense gratification, "Ah, he is not guru." (laughs) Guru also must be a person who can satisfy your senses. The disease is sense gratification.

Vipina: After he took those books home and he read them, he wrote us a letter, and he said he thought you were very intelligent man and would like to speak to you. So we'll see. Maybe he can hear.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are speaking something not of this world, but we are pointing out the defects of this world. "This world" means the world of sense gratification.

Bṛṣākapi: The karmīs, they say: "What is the matter with sense gratification?" They say they like sense gratification; it's very good.

Prabhupāda: Very good, but if you can continue it. But you rascal, you cannot continue it. "Very good, I am now president," but why you are kicked out? Huh? Now, what about the Nixon? Very good, he was president, now he's kicked out, what is his position? He doesn't think that, that "I may be kicked out from my position at any moment. So what is the value of my sense gratification?" He was gratifying his senses. As he liked, he was doing. But now he's kicked out, what he can do now? Why does he not think that? Take the, I mean, living example. Who wants to be kicked out from the presidency? But now he's kicked out. He's living also. He's not in that position. That Kruschev, he's not in that position. Why does he not think that, "Any moment I'll be kicked out." And what is that enforcement that kicks out?

Bṛṣākapi: Why don't they think like that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.

Hari-śauri: That's due to too much sinful activity? Too much sinful activity, that they can't think that there's some divine influence?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no education. Fools. They're childish. A child is playing, he's enjoying, but he does not know that he has to take education, he has to grow up, he'll become a young man. Sometimes, if he's not educated, he'll suffer. He doesn't know. He's playing, that's all. The father says: "My dear child, you read." "No, I like playing." "All right." Similarly, they are childish, foolish, without any responsibility. The animals are doing like that. Ṛṣabhadeva says: "No, no, no. This life is not for this purpose." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Simply for sense gratification so much trouble, like hogs and dogs—this is not life. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam. Just practice austerity to purify your existence. Your existence is not purified. You are put in a position. If you like, that's all right. But because you are not in a purified position, you'll be kicked out at any moment. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). You are very proud to have your position, but nature will kick you out at any moment. But you cannot do anything. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate. He's foolish. He's thinking, "I have everything. I can remain in this presidential position as I like." That is not the position. That is foolishness; that is childish. He does not know what is his position. But he wants position. That means there is a good position for him, but not here. That he does not know. Everyone is hankering after good position, but where is that good position, that he does not know. Everyone is hankering after water, but he is going after water in the desert. That is animalism. The animal runs after the water in the desert, and a human being, he knows, "No, this is not water; this is reflection." The water is there, that's a fact, but not here. That is human . . . it is reflection of water. Reflection water means the water is there, but it is not here. Similarly, good position is there, but not here. Here it is simply a reflection of that position. That he does not understand. Where is the actual water, wherefrom the reflection comes, that he does not know. Falsely thinking that, "Here is everything." Very big, big scientists, they are thinking only on this planet there is life, and all planets are vacant. Too lazy, late.

Bṛṣākapi: They all think like that, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: They are such rascals. They have no common sense that this is also one of the planets, it is filled up with life and everything, and why the other planets should be vacant? If there is rock and sand, then why not other things? Here is also rock and sand and other things also. But these rascals, they think there is simply rock and sand, nothing else. And they are misleading. What is the reason? This planet is filled up with life, and other planets vacant. All right, they can go and colonize there. They say it is not possible. Then why do you go there, spend money? This is going on.

Vipina: Prabhupāda, these . . . nobody wants to do the wrong thing. Nobody wants to go up . . .

Prabhupāda: They are doing wrong thing every moment.

Vipina: Yes, but I mean no one works to do the wrong thing; they work to do the right thing.

Prabhupāda: But they'll not take the right thing. If you say the right thing, they will come to beat you with shoes, run away.

Hari-śauri: They don't have any idea what the right thing is. Everything they're doing is wrong.

Prabhupāda: They want right thing, but they have no idea of right thing. And if you say the right thing, they will not accept it. This is their disease.

Rūpānuga: That is more than māyā; that is their heart.

Prabhupāda: That is called māyā.

Rūpānuga: That is māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are suffering, and if you give him the remedy that he'll not have to suffer, he'll not take it.

Rūpānuga: But that rejection, that is their choice of the heart, isn't it? I mean, they have a choice to make?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is the same thing. Just the child is playing, but if you say: "My dear child, you please take education, otherwise you'll suffer," "Oh, I don't . . ." Child does not like. He wants to play. That is childish, or foolish.

Rūpānuga: He doesn't want to be educated.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for becoming educated about Brahman. They will not take it. They want to remain animals, eating and sleeping. This animal life, that's all. Eat nicely, sleep nicely, have sex life nicely, defend nicely, that's all. Nicely, according to the standard of the body. Here in America, to have a conveyance nicely like a car like this, but in Indian village, a bullock cart is nicely. So this nicely and that nicely, according to the body. You have got this American body, this is nicely. He has got Indian body, that is nicely. But the feeling of niceness is there and here. We are having sex in a very nice apartment, decorated and so on, so on, and a dog is having sex on the street. But the pleasure of sex life is both the same. But we are thinking this is nice. But that is not the fact. The niceness, the feelings of niceness, is there and here.

Vipina: And so much suffering.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply you have to take so much trouble. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām (SB 7.6.3). The sense gratification, the standard of sense gratification, is deha-yogena dehinām, according to the body. The pig is eating very nicely stool because he has got a body like that. A human being will not take that. But the pleasure of eating, either stool or rasagullā, the same.

Rūpānuga: You gave the example of a gold pot and an iron pot and a diamond pot. A diamond pot was a demigod, and the gold pot was a human being, and the iron pot the animal. But they are thinking that the food is more palatable in a different pot. But it is still the same food. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: But they are simply interested with the pots. External. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye . . . (SB 7.5.31). They are thinking by changing the pot the advancement of civilization will increase. And that is going on. Just like the America. You have got very big, big roads, nice cars, everything. You are changing the pot, but the eatable is the same.

Vipina: I heard a nice example given the other day about how the living entities are suffering. A black widow, male and female black widow spiders, have sex life. After the sex life the female spider consumes the male spider, eats him alive.

Prabhupāda: What's that? Spider.

Vipina: Black widow. She will eat him after sex, kill him.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So we are also killing by and by, and she kills immediately. That is the difference.

Vipina: Yes, little by little. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Tulasī dāsa has said that. Din kā dakinī rāt kā bāghinī pālak pālak rahu cuṣe, duniya sab barakhobe gara gara bhagilipu sei, that there is an animal who is at daytime a witch and at nighttime she's tigress. So her only business is to suck the blood. But people are so mad that everyone keeping that tigress. Duniya sab barakhobe gara gara bhagini. Every home, there is a tigress like that.

Hari-śauri: That's their wife.

Rūpānuga: Their best friend.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) At daytime, witch, and nighttime, tigress. This is her picture. But people know it, and still, they keep one tigress at home. Duniya sab barakhobe gara gara bhag . . . so that lady spider and lord spider, that is everywhere. But here gradually, and they are immediately. That is the difference. The process is the same. People want to enjoy by sex, by seminal discharge, but what is this? His blood. By fifteen drops of blood, or something like that, one drop of semina is created.

Rūpānuga: Forty drops of blood, one drop of semina.

Prabhupāda: Forty drops. Yes. So one ounce of semina discharge means forty ounce of blood sucked. This is a fact. So he is enjoying his own blood, and he's thinking, "I am enjoying." Therefore he's compared with the camel. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Camel eats the thorny twigs, and the thorns pricks the tongue and blood comes out. So after twig is mixed with blood, it becomes tasteful, and he thinks thorn is very nice. (laughs) So thorn is not nice; nice is his blood, own blood. But he, because he's animal, he's thinking it is very nice.

Vipina: So many people that run their life that way, they realize that, "This woman is not making me happy. She's making me work, and I'm miserable, and I don't like it," but they keep on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he's described as mad, bhora. Bhora means mad. Duniya sab bhorakhobe gare gare bhagini.

Vipina: We're almost there, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In the heavenly planets the woman is described that during summer they are very warm, the body is very warm, and during winter . . . er . . . summer the body is very cool of the woman, and during summer the body is cool and during winter the body is very warm. That is the nature of the woman in heavenly planets. And their breast is very, very tight and strongly built. And their youthfulness never diminishes. These are the description of the heavenly woman. Bhāgavata, everything is there. Mohinī-mūrti began to play on the balls, and the description of the breast is there and . . . what is called this portion?

Hari-śauri: Armpit.

Prabhupāda: Armpit. Yes. So she was playing ball one hand, and one hand a bunch of hair would become, immediately she was taking care. So with this beauty Lord Śiva become mad. As soon as one man sees the breast and this armpit of young woman, then he is finished. (laughs)

Vipina: So what happens to us?

Prabhupāda: It is every man that this is the position. This is the position. And so long we will be charmed with these things, he has to take birth again and again. Viṣayināṁ saṁdarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca.

Vipina: This is the property, Prabhupāda. Excuse me. This is your home, and the devotees are here for you.

Hari-śauri: I can lock it now if you like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Bṛṣākapi: Would you like some warm milk, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No.

Rūpānuga: This is for your servants. Push the button, they hear in the back.

Vipina: Cold water for you, here, Prabhupāda. Cold water here if you want some.

Prabhupāda: Cold water.

Hari-śauri: They are bringing some hot milk, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Vipina: Also something interesting about this water, Prabhupāda. It's all natural spring water, it's not city water. Underground water, fresh water.

Rūpānuga: It's quiet here.

Prabhupāda: It is nice.

Bṛṣākapi: There's a swimming pool here, Prabhupāda. You have a garden by the pool, you can take your massage there.

Prabhupāda: This is your own house? What you have paid for it?

Rūpānuga: Well, now we are leasing with option to buy. We have ten-year lease. We can purchase anytime before ten years.

Prabhupāda: Price is fixed?

Rūpānuga: Six hundred fifty thousand. But all money paid for rent goes toward purchase.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rūpānuga: How much a month?

Vipina: Right around now, it's about twenty-five hundred, and it will average that for ten years. At the end of ten years, it will drop to like twenty-two, twenty-one, which is . . . it will be worth much more in ten years. It's very good. And he also is responsible . . . the owner is responsible for any major malfunctions in any equipment on the property. We just had your water pump replaced for six hundred dollars, and he had to pay because of our contract.

Rūpānuga: It is an exceptional arrangement.

Bṛṣākapi: No interest.

Prabhupāda: How many rooms?

Bṛṣākapi: Several buildings, Prabhupāda. We have one big temple building down there, very gorgeous, with big kitchen.

Prabhupāda: I may see now?

Rūpānuga: If you like.

Prabhupāda: Or it is closed.

Rūpānuga: Deities are resting.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rūpānuga: In the morning I think it would be better to see things.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bṛṣākapi: We can walk on the property.

Prabhupāda: Morning walk.

Rūpānuga: Jaya.

Vipina: The kitchen is governmentally approved, so that if we decide to have a big festival, we can cook and distribute publicly without any problems.

Prabhupāda: These furnitures were there?

Rūpānuga: No, this is all we have purchased.

Bṛṣākapi: For you, Prabhupāda.

Rūpānuga: The doors also, lights—everything we have purchased.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You had to utilize so much money.

Rūpānuga: But this is Washington, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everything . . . this neighborhood is one of the most wealthy neighborhoods in the country. It is very big. We did not think we would be able to get in so easy. But now the people are appreciating how we have fixed up the property, so they have accepted us into the community. But it is very wealthy. You will see some of the new houses being built.

Prabhupāda: They have seen our books?

Rūpānuga: I don't know. Have you made some . . .? Well, basically we've been just getting them used to us. We have not approached them so much, because we've only been here a short time. How long have we been here altogether?

Bṛṣākapi: Four months. Three to four months.

Rūpānuga: In four months, they have transformed this.

Prabhupāda: That's good. This wooden wall was there?

Vipina: Yes. We refinished them.

Bṛṣākapi: It was all dirty.

Prabhupāda: It was not used.

Rūpānuga: It was simply for office, like that. And the temple building was a gymnasium. It used to be a gymnasium, and we have converted the whole thing.

Vipina: That was one reason that we were very much attracted to the property. The property itself was not very beautiful when we came, but the gym was built, and we saw it as an immediate temple where we could hold kīrtana and preach. So we then made a contract, and the fish bit.

Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking it.

Vipina: No one was taking it.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Our Detroit property is like that.

Rūpānuga: White elephant.

Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking, but it was quite suitable for us. And that is the finest property. You have seen it?

Rūpānuga: I have not been there. I have seen photographs.

Bṛṣākapi: I have seen it.

Prabhupāda: Is it not?

Bṛṣākapi: It is the finest, the finest.

Prabhupāda: And we have got very cheap. One room will cost three hundred thousand, it is so costly. They said they spent about two millions dollars fifty years ago.

Vipina: Fifty years ago. That's ten, twenty million now.

Prabhupāda: But nobody was taking.

Vipina: Haribol Narottama.

Narottama: Hot milk. And there is fruit, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There is fruit also. (devotee enters; offers obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Come on. Jaya.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: You take. That's all. What is this?

Devotee: Kiwi from New Zealand. (Prabhupāda is eating during the conversation)

Vipina: Those are Narottama's rasagullās over there, Prabhupāda. Narottama's rasagullā.

Hari-śauri: He's learned how to make Indian sweets very expertly. He was making them in Detroit.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Bṛṣākapi: Jaya, Prabhupāda. That's wonderful, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where he is going now?

Hari-śauri: Ready to arrange the luggage.

Vipina: This is real prasādam distribution.

Prabhupāda: Very nice. (Prabhupāda continues to eat)

Vipina: Those are melons, Prabhupāda. Watermelons, sweet melons. They are the best.

Prabhupāda: I take America as my fatherland. India is motherland, and here is fatherland. (laughs) So many fathers. My father was very affectionate to me. He would do everything for me. I lost one father, I have got so many fathers.

Vipina: Jaya. We'd like to keep it that way, Prabhupāda. If you'd let us, we'd like to keep it that way.

Bṛṣākapi: We want to take care of you forever, Prabhupāda.

Vipina: What do you say, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That . . . everyone appreciated that in India, that the American fathers keeping him. Just like keeping him in cotton. (laughs) They admit that. Where is salt? There are many flies here?

Vipina: Not many, and we have screens also in the windows, so there shouldn't be too much disturbance from them.

Prabhupāda: Fruits are so nice. Kṛṣṇa has given fruit. They are locally grown?

Bṛṣākapi: No, Prabhupāda. Not too many. They all come from other parts of the country.

Prabhupāda: Your country?

Bṛṣākapi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not outside. Not like England, they have to import from . . . this is a very good example. Just like salt, we require. A little salt will increase the taste. But because it is absolutely necessary for eating, salt—everyone eats salt; nobody can avoid salt—it does not mean I shall eat too much. If I take this whole salt pot and put into . . . because "It is very good," that is foolishness. Similarly, sense gratification, so long we have got this material body, we require little. But because it is tasty, "Let us take it, whole pot," that is mistake. This is going on. This foolishness is going on. Sex life is good, simply take sex life, go on, and spoil your whole life. That is going on. If everything is accepted in regulative principle—little salt, that's all—that's very nice. But as soon as you think "It is very nice. Let me take simply this," then it is spoiled. That is wanted. We don't reject anything, but accept in a regular way. Flesh eaters? All right, you want flesh? "No, I want flesh, but I want this big cow." Why not less important animal? There are so many other animals. The goats are there, the lambs are there, the hogs are there. Take them. Why Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya? It is a very important animal. It will give you brain substance, this rasagullā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. But this rascal has no knowledge. The cows gives us milk, very nutritious. "No, eat the whole cow. Then all nutrition will come." This is their intelligence. Rubbish civilization. Why Kṛṣṇa has recommended go-rakṣya? He never said that other animal. If you are fond of eating flesh, you take other animals, not the cow. Give protection, take milk from it, and prepare nice preparation, that will be good for brain, for your mind. Apart from . . . there is no question of religious sentiment. From practical.

Rūpānuga: Just the medical point of view, it is right.

Prabhupāda: You see. But they are so fools, rascals, they'll not accept it. And they'll give example, "Christ ate fish" somewhere. "Therefore we have to maintain the slaughterhouse." Because Christ ate fish, therefore we have to maintain slaughterhouse. Give the dog a bad name and hang it. Huh? This is going on. So we have to make vigorous propaganda for all this foolishness. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So we are giving the best civilization, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. With little patience and perseverance you work on it, people will take it. Because there is nothing adulteration; it is pure. Rest assured, if you follow the principles and push on according to the prescription I have given, it will be accepted. May take some time.

Rūpānuga: But they will appreciate the purity.

Prabhupāda: It is pure. Actually, these fruits and some milk preparation are sufficient. You don't require any flesh. Is the flesh comparable with this nice fruit?

(pause)

Prabhupāda: Come on. Sit down. (distributing prasādam)

Devotee: Is there one for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I am not so fool that I shall give everything. (laughter) (end)