760618 - Conversation - Toronto

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760618R1-TORONTO - June 18, 1976 - 19:55 Minutes

Prabhupāda: If we say all these things, they will cut my head. (laughs) Therefore I don't say in the public meeting all these things. But it is actually dog's race. No value. Actually, no value. We cannot give any value to this type of civilization, running like dog with car.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I remember in South Africa, though, Prabhupāda, you called them, (laughs) at every meeting, dogs and cats. And afterward they were always applauding. (claps)

Hari-śauri: He did that. (laughing) You did that in South India as well.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think that if . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, when I come in emotion, I cannot check to speak the truth. But actually it is the fact. I cannot give any credit to these rascals (laughs) who are running at high speed, big, big car.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What did we read? There was an article about Mars today.

Hari-śauri: Oh. Nonsense.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists, again . . .

Hari-śauri: They were speculating about . . . they sent this spaceship to Mars, and they were speculating that maybe now the so-called smog that covers the surface of the planet, it could be fog. It could be made of ice and water particles. So now they . . . so they were speculating like that. And then they said they were going to land the spaceship in a valley at a certain point that is four miles deep and that may . . . it may have been filled with water fifty thousand years ago, and it could have fossils in it from the type of life that existed there, if it existed.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fifty thousand years ago. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Scientist rascal. How ludicrous. Simply "maybe," "if it was" and "it will be." That's all. Simply "maybe."

Hari-śauri: Yes. They were speculating about, even they didn't know what the atmosphere was, and yet they know . . . yet they were stating that they were going to land this spaceship at a certain point just below the Martian equator in a valley which is just at the mouth of the valley, which is four miles deep.

Prabhupāda: And people are taking, "Oh, it is scientific research."

Hari-śauri: They are such rascals.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This cheating has to stop.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This cheating has to be stopped.

Hari-śauri: And actually, on the same page, what was that, the percentage of scientists who are engaged in warfare?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Forty percent of all the scientists in the world, the estimate is, are engaged in making weapons. And it said that since the end of World War II, six trillion dollars, which is six thousand billion dollars, have been spent on armament in the world.

Hari-śauri: In the West.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The West, did it say?

Prabhupāda: In India have no money. They can't get. (laughs) They have no sufficient money to eat even. Still they are spending more than fifty percent, fifty-four percent.

Hari-śauri: They estimate there's four hundred thousand so-called scientists working on armament.

Prabhupāda: Working on?

Hari-śauri: Armament. Weapons. Weapon development. Defense. They call it defense measures.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Why defense? Man to man. That means they are dogs. The dogs defend from another dog. Is it not? As soon as they see another dog, "Yow, yow, yow." So then where is the defense between man to man?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're worried now that they won't be able to disarm, the article was saying, because, somehow or another, there's going to be a disaster unless there is immediate disarmament. But they don't think it's possible.

Prabhupāda: No. How they can disarm? They have been trained up like dogs to bark and fight. How there can be disarmament?

Hari-śauri: They've been talking about disarmament for who knows how long.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: They've been talking about disarmament for years and years together. But they're simply increasing. There's no disarmament.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even within the different religions they are fighting amongst each other.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This religion is also bogus. How the dogs can understand religion? It is simply woax.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply?

Prabhupāda: Woax, woax. What is called? Woax?

Hari-śauri: Wasp?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like a bee?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Colossal woax. H-o-a-x. Find out this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: H?

Prabhupāda: H-o-a-x.

Hari-śauri: Hoax.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hoax! Joke.

Hari-śauri: Everything's just a bluff. Just a show.

Prabhupāda: Hoax, yes.

Hari-śauri: Rubber-stamping.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reading from dictionary) Hoax means "To deceive, take in, sometimes by way of joke, humorous or mischievous deception."

Prabhupāda: Vibhrama (bhambhara?). The Sanskrit is vibhrama-milita-kriyā. The ārambha, ārambha means endeavor, very gorgeous. The result is sand and rocks. Going to the moon planet, the ārambha was so much expensive. And the result is to bring some sand and rocks. This is hoax. And another: parvatān muṣika bhavaḥ. Hoax . . . (indistinct) . . . like that. There was a great advertisement that the Himalayan mountain is going to deliver a child. So people gathered on, to see, "Oh, such a big mountain. The child must be a very big child." So they went to see there, and they saw one rat is coming from the hole of . . . a rat is coming. They expected another Himalayan mountain, and they saw from the holes, one rat is coming. This is going on. And they are satisfied: "Now the Himalaya has delivered the child." One rat. (laughs) This attempt is like Himalaya begetting a child. If some elephant would have come, it would have saved the . . . not even elephant; one rat. And in English, another is, "Much ado about nothing."

Hari-śauri: Shakespeare.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The result is nothing. What is the meaning of "ado"?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Endeavor.

Prabhupāda: Endeavor. Yes. So these things are like that. Not sober. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). They are not sober. Adhīra. Therefore they meet with so many accidents. (to Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa) You also. As soon as one is in the car, he wants to drive at a hundred miles speed.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think it was token punishment, but I'm sorry that you were in the car.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) What is the use? You are not going to serve anyone that we have to go high speed. We can go comfortably.

Hari-śauri: We can make our own pace.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śyāmasundara also. When he was driving seventy miles. And what you are doing? What is that? This country, Portland.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oregon? From Eugene to Oregon.

Prabhupāda: Oregon, yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I was in the car with you in the back seat.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you were in the car?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They all fell asleep. I was chanting. You were sitting. You didn't even go to sleep that night. (laughs) Even though it was late at night, it was about eleven, twelve, one o'clock at night, you didn't want to stay at that bhogī yogī house. I remember that. And he drove very, very fast back to Portland. That was a very nice engagement.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That was Śyāmasundara's father's car. So he's a good driver, (laughter) but very dangerous driver. I do not know. Śyāmasundara, his father is a rich man, lawyer, got good estate, and he's the only son. He did not like to stay with father.

Hari-śauri: No one in the West likes to stay with their parents.

Prabhupāda: Two sisters, very beautiful girls. They're unhappy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're unhappy?

Prabhupāda: Yes. His two sisters.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I remember he was preaching to them. At least one of them that came to the temple that time. She came to that program.

Prabhupāda: She first of all came in London.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She was piano player.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they're artists. They're artists. They're not happy. Divorced. His mother is very gentle, I have seen. Father is also respectable man.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Family life in the West is disastrous.

Prabhupāda: The father wants to get them back at home, but they don't . . . the father is also taking pills for sleeping. (laughs) Father is also not happy.

Hari-śauri: That's the thing. In the West, even though the opulence is there, the children can see the parents are not happy. The parents are always full of anxiety. So even though the parents want the children to stay at home, the children, they resent that, because they can see that, "You have nothing to offer. It's just a facade."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't want to become like their parents. They don't see that their parents are a desirable example to follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wine and sex. They see from childhood. One boy, our Rancor, so his father and mother divorced, and he was young child. He was the first child of his mother. And the mother, he said, would daily bring new friend. So he could understand.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A new woman.

Prabhupāda: Not new woman. His mother, he was under the care of mother.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, mother had new husbands, new boyfriends.

Prabhupāda: Daily, night. And he was shocked. One of my Gauḍīya Maṭha Godbrothers, big, he became the head of this Bhag Bazaar Gauḍīya Maṭha. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: New?

Prabhupāda: Paramour.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Paramour.

Prabhupāda: Yes and the boy, he was ten years or twelve years old, he could understand, "Who is this man?" So he protested and said: "I shall tell all these things to my father." And he was killed.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The boy was killed?

Prabhupāda: By the mother.

Hari-śauri: She murdered him?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gauḍīya Maṭha scandal.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He also . . . he was also one of the trustees. This Tīrtha Mahārāja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupāda was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that "I may die." So he made a scrap paper, that "In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gauḍīya Maṭha Institute." That's all. So this Kuñja Bābu kept this. There are many long histories. So one of the so-called trustees was this Vāsudeva. So he died. His end was like this. His son was killed, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: His wife was a regular prostitute, and she killed her child, and on this shock, he took poison and died.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He killed himself. Oh.

Prabhupāda: Naturally he became shocked that, "This is my family life—the wife is prostitute and son is killed. What is the value of my life?" This was his spiritual realization. Just see. (laughs) And he was made the chief, and one of the supporter was Śrīdhara Mahārāja.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Vāsudeva Śrīdhara?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Mahārāja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Am I mis . . .? You had told me once—I'm not certain; maybe I made a mistake—you said that Vāsudeva, it was known fact that he was homosex?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Vāsudeva.

Prabhupāda: He was homosex and sex, everything.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this city . . . I haven't been back in so many years to America. Things have become more degraded. I'm watching women and women walking arm around each other. And I asked: "What is this?" "Oh," he says: "They are lesbians." Women together, girlfriends. They don't mix with men.

Prabhupāda: This is now very much prevalent in America.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No higher consciousness.

Prabhupāda: I had one disciple, she was for that purpose. Just see.

Satsvarūpa: So one professor is already here.

Prabhupāda: Let him come.

Satsvarūpa: This is Shivaram.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Should I turn this light on?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You also sit down. Note down.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I want to get the newspapers that you wanted. (break)

Prabhupāda: So what can I do? (laughs)

Jayādvaita: I'll speak to Rāmeśvara and see if we can do something to publish it. (break)

Prabhupāda: I began with these men are running on car and the dog is running on leg, where is the difference? His running by car is his advancement of civilization. They are taking running by car, never mind the passenger is a dog. (laughter) But the passenger is running on car, a dog, therefore he's a dog.

Jayādvaita: They use these cars for running after women.

Prabhupāda: That is the same thing. Just like dog runs after.

Hari-śauri: What will the program be? Won't Prabhupāda speak down there also?

Prabhupāda: What is speaking?

Hari-śauri: I'll just see if everything is ready. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)