760707 - Conversation A - Baltimore

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760707R1-BALTIMORE - July 07, 1976 - 21:59 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . bora bora phet, lanka dinga ke matta kare het It was translated by a Mr. Row, a professor in the Presidency College, he translated, "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." When the problems of life is read, then they are melancholy, all these big, big scientists. Ceylon jumping melancholy. Hanumān, one monkey, he jumped over the Ceylon. So other monkeys also, they were very much proud that a monkey jumped over the ocean. And as soon as he was challenged, "Can you jump over?" melancholy. Ceylon jumping melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. These are the translation by Mr. Row, a professor of English in Presidency College. So what is the proposal now?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to discuss about the journal that we are proposing to have from the Institute.

Rūpānuga: So Ravīndra-svarūpa Prabhu is going to be the editor, you approved in Māyāpur. We were thinking if you could give us some idea for a title. Because we were thinking so far that we would have a subtitle, like we have "Back to Godhead" then we have "the Magazine of the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement." So we would have the subtitle, "Bhaktivedanta Institute" or "Journal of the Bhaktivedanta Institute," but maybe you would like to have a title of the journal. So we wanted to know if you had some hint.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can title, entitle, Sa-vijñāna.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sa-vijñāna?

Devotees: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. What is that Bhagavad-gītā verse? Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ pravakṣyāmi tad vijñānam . . .

Pradyumna:

jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam

idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ

yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj

jñātavyam avaśiṣyate

(BG 7.2)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: Seventh Chapter.

Rūpānuga: That is good, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That is a very nice title.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What about a subtitle?

Pradyumna: "I shall now declare unto you in full this knowledge, both phenomenal and noumenal, by knowing which there shall remain nothing further to be known."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nothing further to be known.

Pradyumna: Sa-vijñānam

Rūpānuga: Sa-vijñānam. So we can say "Sa-vijñānam, Journal of the Bhaktivedanta Institute." Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sa-vijñānam.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Do we need some sort of translation maybe?

Devotee: On the inside cover we can have this verse . . .

Prabhupāda: You can give this verse.

Devotee: Give the verse on the inside. That can be the motto.

Prabhupāda: Is that nice title?

Pradyumna: Scientific.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, sound very . . .

Rūpānuga: It's a very good title.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in this journal we can publish from different disciplines of knowledge, from any branch of knowledge and principle.

Devotee: Science, philosophy, economics, sociology. For the scholarly, academic community.

Prabhupāda: Yes, socially you can preach how this cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), how it is scientific. In the society, if there is . . . actually we have. Just like why these, maybe so-called scientists, but why the scientists are given so much importance? Because there is a brain. So if you make everyone equal, all śūdras, then who will be the brain? The brain is required. That is brāhmaṇa. So this, not this brain; this brain is śūdra brain for everyone. But when the . . . but just like here is Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, or you are here. So you are not scientist from the very birth. You have been trained up how to become a scientist. Similarly, the birth is there. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. But you have to be trained up how to become first-class brain. That is brāhmaṇa. You have to become truthful, you have to become controller of the senses, you have to become fully aware of things, of God, everything, full knowledge, then you become brain. People give scientists so much importance because there is brain. Brain, in the society, there must be brain. So without brain, how the society can go on? If you simply produce motor mechanic, then?

Brain must be there. Just like this is brain: Sanātana Gosvāmī is asking, ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. This is brain. "I don't want some uncomfortable situation, but why it is enforced?" So when you make research into that, that is brain. And if we remain like animal, "All right, they are dragging me to the slaughterhouse, that's all right, let me go," that is not brain. Brain means that I am seeking after perfect happiness; why I am not allowed to have this perfect happiness? That is brain. The question, if there is any remedy. They are doing this. Scientific brain means there are so many problems, they are trying to solve it. That requires brain. But because they are fool scientists, they do not know how to make a solution of the ultimate problem. They are making tiny problems, that's all. There is power shortage: all right, let us invent some substitute of petroleum. Brain is being taxed. Again it is finished, again another. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). But they are so dull brain, they do not raise the question that we are making solution of one problem, another problem is ready. That brain they have not. So how long we shall go on solving the problems, another problem, another problem? Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). He does not know that nature will not allow me to live peacefully. So we bring problems after problems. That is material life. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī. Everything is there. You discuss only Bhagavad-gītā, you'll get so many subject matter to think and write. This is brain. We are solving one problem; another problem is there. So why this is happening? If there is any situation without any problem? That is brain.

Rūpānuga: We had another practical consideration. We were thinking that could BBT publish the journal? BBT would publish the journal?

Prabhupāda: But whether you'll be able to publish regularly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Quarterly, at the beginning.

Rūpānuga: Four times a year. Every three months.

Prabhupāda: Because it must be very . . . sa-vijñānam, it must be very scientific.

Rūpānuga: Oh, yes. Without defect.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, BBT will publish. Why not?

Rūpānuga: We can provide the copying work and all the graphs and things, and then they would lay it out and do everything, like with your books.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just like other things. And it will be BBT property. That's all.

Rūpānuga: Your property.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can also do it for the books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, isn't it? It will be published by BBT, but coming out from Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Devotee: That will be good for the Institute if the name is on that book.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. From Bhaktivedanta publisher. Yes, that's all right. You can do something like that, there is no harm. But this world is a problem, but we want solution of the problem but we do not know how to solve it. Is it not? Do the scientists know?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are trying. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Not a single problem they have solved. Can you cite that this big problem they have solved?

Rūpānuga: In fact you have said that they are creating a new problem each time.

Prabhupāda: That is the nature. You cannot solve the problem. You will create problem. If you don't live natural life, then you will create problem. Just like the other than . . . creatures, other than human beings, they have no problem, because they are living naturally. So our human beings should also live natural life. Then his only problem is this birth, death, old age, and . . . that he will be able to solve. That is the difference. The birds and beasts, they are living natural life, but they have no capacity to solve the problem. They are living a natural life. But the human being has the capacity to solve the problem. Real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. But they do not touch the real problem. Hmm? They avoid it because they cannot solve it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They keep it for the future. They postpone.

Prabhupāda: That is postdated check. "You take this million dollar check." "When shall I use it?" "After millions year you can cash it." This kind of propaganda no sane man will accept.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's like chemical evolution. Million years it will happen.

Prabhupāda: Billion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in a million years.

Prabhupāda: Then the answer is the chicken is better than you. He can give you life within seven days. Dr. Chicken is better. They are shameless. Not ordinary, because ordinary human being will become shameful to speak something nonsense. But they are shameless. In that Bengali, duḥkhānkata. One man, one ear was cut off. So in order to hide his cut-off ear he was keeping this side to the river side and this side to the habitation side and then again his two ears were cut out. Then there is no question of hiding. Both of them were cut out. So these people are duḥkhānkata. When both the ears cut out, there is no shame. They will go on talking all nonsense. Because they accept, they are accepted. So many millions of years have passed in the history, nobody could do that, and they are giving hope that life will come after millions of years. Why million? Here is a chicken, he can give life within five days. What credit you'll get after millions of years? But they are duḥkhānkata, so shameless they can speak such nonsense and still pass on as scientists. Tibocham, I think. Duḥkhānkata. No shame. You do not feel that why you are talking nonsense. Am I right or wrong? Here is a chicken, insignificant animal, he is giving life within five days, and we are talking of millions of years, and still we are scientist, Dr. Frog.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are going to use that example in our preaching.

Prabhupāda: And the thing is that these person, they are holding the . . . andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man, he has no eyes, and still, he's leader of other blind men. Is it possible? A blind man, he is blind man, he has no knowledge, and still, he's leading other blind men. This is a very dangerous position. He has no actually knowledge, simply speculating, putting theories and formulas, and they are leaders of the society.

Rūpānuga: We have to stop this.

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise people are misled. It is not the duty of education to mislead people. The real knowledge should be given. They should know that. To become a great misleader and take some title, that is not good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other morning you were . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda was mentioning about the Institute, the Bhaktivedanta Institute. So is there anything else that Your Divine Grace wants to . . .?

Prabhupāda: Institute, you have got sufficient subject matter as I was describing, this original source of life and the planetary system, as you are going to make planetarium. Who can say about so many planets in the sky? Who has got sufficient knowledge? They cannot even give . . . they think that moon is the nearest planet, but we do not think like that. But still they are unable to give sufficient knowledge about the moon. It is not vacant. It cannot be vacant. We don't find any part of the world vacant. There is living entities. This earth planet is part of the universe, and the moon is also part of the universe. If it is not vacant, how that can be vacant? You have got dust there, here we have got dust—you have got rocks there, here we have got rocks. And why it is vacant? We find in the dust also there is life. When we walk on the beach, it is simply sand, there are so many crabs. They are immediately flying, running, "Oh, here is a man coming. Enter into the hole." So even the dust, in the sand, there is life. So why not there? In the water there is life, within the sand there is life, in the air there is life—everywhere there is life. Why it should be vacant? Hmm? What is the opinion of the scientists? How . . .? We are layman, talking like layman, but why there should not be life? And in the śāstra we get there is life. Not only moon; every planet is full of living entities. Jagat-kīrṇa. There is human being, there is animal, everything. How it can be vacant, God's creation?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they cannot see, so . . .

Prabhupāda: See . . . you cannot see your father; that does not means there is no father who begot you. That is no . . . they cannot see . . . do they say like that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot see that, so they cannot prove by experiment, so . . .

Prabhupāda: What experiment?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just from experience also.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They go and look, and that's all they can do. They want to go and see for themselves, so they say they have gone to the moon planet, and they say: "We have not found life."

Prabhupāda: We say you have not gone. I have not seen you, that you have gone there; you say only. How can I believe?

'Vipina:' They show you pictures, and it was on the TV.

Prabhupāda: That is also, you have made picture. I have not gone and seen that. How can I believe you? The same argument. You say that you have gone to moon planet, but I have not seen that you have gone there. How can I believe you?

'Vipina:' Is there some other way we can argue with them, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's . . . answer this question, that you say you have not seen. I say yes, that's all right, because you did not see, therefore you don't believe. But I did not see you also that you have gone to moon planet. How can I believe you?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: How is it possible to deceive so many people?

Prabhupāda: Whether it is not possible or possible, but if you put this argument, that I have not seen, that I can say that I have . . . (end)