751104 - Morning Walk - Bombay

Morning Walks by Date, 1975

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Morning Walk

751104MW-BOMBAY - November 04, 1975 - 52:53 Minutes

Girirāja: . . . very nice. Very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very long also.

Prabhupāda: Long and broad. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) . . . is anātha, without any master, like these dogs, loitering, no hope where to get food, where to take shelter. Anātha. Anātha and sa-nātha. And you'll find a big man taking care of the dog, and he's happy and barking like any . . . "Aw! Aw! Aw!"—because he has got his master. And this poor fellow has no master; therefore he is suffering, anātha. (break) . . . Yamunācārya, very nice. Mano-rathāntaram. Kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam. (break) . . . the dog, that "These are saintly persons. If they can take me . . ." (break)

bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ

praśānta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ

kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ

praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam

(CC Madhya 1.206)

Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ: "Simply abiding by the orders of Your Lordship," bhavantam eva caran, "acting," nirantaraḥ "twenty-four hours," and prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ, "and finishing all this mental business, mental concoction, making plans." Niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. Bhavantam eva caran nirantaraḥ prasanta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ: "When I shall be unalloyedly devotee of Your Lordship, and," praharṣayiṣyāmi, "I shall be jubilant, living," sa-nātha-jīvitam, "that 'I have got my master. I have got my master.' I have no cares and anxiety."

bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ

praśānta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ

kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ

praharṣayiṣyāmi sa-nātha-jīvitam

(CC Madhya 1.206)

This is the ideal of life, to become sa-nātha-jīvitam, living with hope that "I have got my master who will give me protection." That is ideal life. Others, they are living independently—anātha, no master. Just like a child without having father and mother is called anātha. So-called independence means anātha. Anātha. What is the independence? At any time nature's law will come and kick it out. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Eh? Brahmānanda was speaking that "We are feeling anātha before coming here"? Yes. Yesterday. "And now we are feeling sa-nātha." That's a fact. This godless life is anātha. Foolishly they want to remain anātha. They do not like to be sa-nātha. And anātha means the street dog—nobody to take, always barking, always hungry, always disturbed, somebody is throwing stone. This is their . . . I went to your country in 1965. I went there as anātha, but I was confident that "Now I am not anātha; I am sa-nātha." (break) . . . was interested in my mission, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No. In this country I wanted to start it. Nobody came forward to help me. So practically . . . but I was confident that "I am not anātha, but I am sa-nātha." (break) . . . does not want to become devotee?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. She is an Ārya, so . . . but she believes in God, but she is not surrendered.

Prabhupāda: Ārya-samājīs, do they believe in God? I don't think.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are impersonalists.

Indian man (1): (break) Arya samaji ka jitna aurat log hai. (All the women of Ārya-samājī.)

Prabhupāda: Parsi, Hindu, Muslim, they will take anyone, provided he teaches you how to love God. Otherwise useless. If you don't get the knowledge how to love God, then it is useless waste of time. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Every time I would say Hare Kṛṣṇa, some of them were lying here. I have distributed by sticks. (break) . . . it is stated that he was seeing everything material as nonsense, avastuvāt. Avastu means no substance. Vastu means substance. And he was surprised how a man can become without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because he was a child, five years old, he was surprised that, "How these people, my father and others, they are without Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"

Dr. Patel: That is mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā.

icchā-dveṣa-samutthena

dvandva-mohena bhārata

sarva-bhūtāni sammohaṁ

sarge yānti parantapa

(BG 7.27)

"All bhūtas come to illusion because of icchā, dveṣa and dvandva." And when you are relieved from icchā, dveṣa and dvandva, then you are mukta.

Prabhupāda: Work is going on at night? No.

Saurabha: They are digging all night.

Dr. Patel: These two architects are wonderful people. They are wonderful. They, very quickly they're getting up. I said it will not be so soon as that.

Prabhupāda: Now we are going to have the temple within three months.

Dr. Patel: But then drying of the cement, drying needs . . .

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. Just you take care. In Bombay, Calcutta, if you pay for, you can get tiger's blood.

Dr. Patel: That side, you can get tiger's blood and even tiger's milk. But then you can't get time. The cement a certain time, takes certain time to dry, no?

Prabhupāda: Then the answer is . . . no, the architects have promised, within three months.

Dr. Patel: You must have some, some mantras then, architect. Have you got any mantras brought from America or . . .?

Devotees in distance: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) . . . is practical. (break)

Dr. Patel: . . . because God does not want to come out and meet idiots. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. They obstructed so much, so it must be wall against those persons. From the very beginning they were obstructing. So therefore we raised the wall so that they may not come.

Dr. Patel: But the sādhus have not developed these faulty characters, as mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhag . . .

Prabhupāda: But who is sādhu? First of . . .

Dr. Patel: All these sādhus: satyam, śaucam, abhaya, śānti, and all these things . . .

Prabhupāda: But sādhu . . . they are sādhu because they are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Api cet sudurācaraḥ. Their case is different. But others, they are all asādha, asādhu. Kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāh (SB 5.18.12). A man may be materially, academically very advanced, but Bhāgavata says, kuto mahad-guṇāh. Because he is not devotee, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāh. "Why? They have got so many qualifications—still, they are not great personality?" No. "Why?" Mano-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ, "They will only act on their mental platform, speculate." No facts. The fact is that he is soul. He has to change this body. That they have forgotten, and making big, big plan. This is . . . Prahlāda Mahārāja regrets, śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43): "I am thinking of these rascals, fools." Māyā-sukhāya: "For māyā-sukha," means this false or illusory happiness, "they are making some huge, gorgeous arrangement."

Dr. Patel: That is all because of the body consciousness of a man thinking himself the body and not the soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Somebody has constructed big, big, big building, but he does not think that how long he will be able to enjoy it. After this body he has to change.

Dr. Patel: That is . . . in Mahābhārata there is one śloka. I don't remember the exact Sanskrit wording, but Yudhiṣṭhira said that he so much . . . I mean, he cannot understand why people see every day people dying outside, but they don't think about that they are going to die . . .

Prabhupāda: Kim āścāryam ataḥ param. Kim āścāryam ataḥ param.

Dr. Patel: Ah, that's right.

Prabhupāda:

ahany ahani lokāni

gacchantīha yama-mandiram

śeṣaḥ sthāvaram icchanti

kim āścāryam ataḥ param

(Mahābhārata, Vana-parva 313.116)

Dr. Patel: That is the greatest āścārya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is dying every moment, but the living man is thinking, "I'll not die."

Dr. Patel: That he is eternal.

Prabhupāda: "I'll not die."

Dr. Patel: The body will not die. He does not die, no doubt. That is a fact. But he thinks that the body does not die.

Prabhupāda: It is the question of body. That is a fact. But he is attached with this body. So the body will not exist. That he cannot see. He has got spiritual business. That he is neglecting. Everyone at the present moment, all over the world, ask, "Are you engaged with your bodily activities or spiritual activities?" "What is the nonsense spirit? We are all body, this body, so long we have got." Even the big Professor Kotovsky, he said: "Swāmījī, everything ends after the body. Why do you bother?"

Dr. Patel: I think Einstein was also saying the same thing. Einstein, Professor Einstein.

Prabhupāda: I do not know, but I talked with this gentleman directly. He said . . . he was a big man in Russia. He said: "Swāmījī, after the end of the body everything is finished."

Dr. Patel: They know . . . these Russians are the only hundred-percent body conscious. The Cārvākas. Who are they? They are descendants of Cārvākas, these Russians.

Prabhupāda: No, in India also, all these political leaders, big ministers . . .

Dr. Patel: No, no. The Communism itself is Cārvākism in a different way. Our sanātana-dharma is a Communist-dharma, when you see the same eye, everyone in equal. But they don't want that way. They want other way. From body consciousness, not from soul consciousness, they want Communism. Sanātana-dharma preaches us Communism from soul consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Where is the understanding of soul? Everyone is puffed up with his body. Nobody considers even that when I say this finger, "my finger," "my head," "my leg . . ."

Dr. Patel: And who is that "my"?

Prabhupāda: And who is that "I"?

Dr. Patel: Who is that, saying it, "my"?

Prabhupāda: This is brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. When this intelligence comes, then he's a human being. Otherwise he is dog. He is every day saying "my leg," "my head," "my finger," my," "my," but he does not know what is "I."

Dr. Patel: Who is that calling "my."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is God . . .

Dr. Patel: That is greatest āścārya, next to Dharmarāja's āścārya.

Prabhupāda: No, āścārya is death. One may not have this "I" conception, but he has to die. That is a fact. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

(break) What further arrangement is being made? Today a meeting?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: At a quarter to twelve.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr Raheja is going to come also. (break)

Dr. Patel: (break) (Gujarati)

Prabhupāda: . . . vimūḍha. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasā vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43).

Dr. Patel: That, some people have spoke, go-kharaḥ. I am not able to understand much about the whole śloka, so you know, the salile, buddhi, and what is that? The Sanskrit is little difficult to me.

Prabhupāda: (to devotee?) That you explain.

Dr. Patel: No, I want you to explain.

Prabhupāda: No, he is also paṇḍita. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: Śrīmad-Bhāgavata Sanskrit little difficult.

Prabhupāda: Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ-kunape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is just like a bag made of three dhātus: kaptha, pitta, vāyu. Actually it is so. They are thinking that this body is made of blood, muscle, bone and urine and stool. This is the constitution of the body. And these foolish people thinking that the living condition is coming from combination of these things.

Dr. Patel: Material.

Prabhupāda: Not only material. Such abominable things as stool, urine, blood, bone, muscle—all rejected things. And they are so foolish that they are accepting that combination of the stool, urine, blood and bones can create a body . . . a life. Body is already there. So if you are so big scientist, why don't you take this material and create a life?

Dr. Patel: That is what the Russians say.

Prabhupāda: Russians say that the . . .

Dr. Patel: That the consciousness comes after the combination of . . .

Prabhupāda: We are talking of this verse, that if this is the composition of the body, these things are available anywhere. Why don't you create life? Therefore he is no better than the dogs. He has no intelligence that, "How this combination of blood, urine, stool and bone and muscle can create life?" They are thinking that a combination of matter can bring life force. That is the so-called scientists' theory. So these things are available in large quantity, so why don't you create a life? Therefore go-kharaḥ. Their intelligence is not better than the cows and the asses from the very beginning. If they are not cows and asses, how they can think of that combination of these material things can bring in life? When a man dies, find out if there is scarcity of stool or scarcity of urine or scarcity of blood. Bring it and inject it. These rascals, they cannot do it, and still they are calculating urine examination, blood examination and this examination.

Dr. Patel: Idiot. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, I am not saying. It is śāstra. (laughter) Take this dead man's body, and whatever urine and stool is there, examine, and then inject, and come him, let him back, come to life. Then I will understand that your examination of the stool, urine is perfect. This is common question. So long the soul was there, you are very expert to examine stool, urine and this and that. But when the soul is gone . . . now the stool is there, urine is there. Why don't you examine and give life? This is our challenge.

Dr. Patel: They say that the life, the consciousness . . . according to our religion, consciousness, the whole thing is conscious, as a matter of fact. The cosmos is . . .

Prabhupāda: Consciousness means soul, soul.

Dr. Patel: Consciousness is the higher śakti of God, I mean, apara tu anya . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, consciousness . . . so long the soul is there, the consciousness is there. The consciousness is not there means the soul is not there.

Indian (2): But prabhu, one thing the doctor has got in power, you see, that is this, that suppose he gives a poisonous injection, that is immediately affected, and why the soul is out of it if . . .?

Prabhupāda: No, no, all injection will be effective so long the soul is there.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Give it to the dead bodies, he says.

Prabhupāda: That is my point, that if . . . (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. If this analysis of the blood, urine and other things can help us, so you can analyze the dead bodies—stool, urine, blood, something is there—and give some injection and let him come to life.

Dr. Patel: Samjha kya tane? (Did you understand?) Yeah body . . . this body . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are go-kharaḥ. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri . . . (SB 10.84.13)

Dr. Patel: So long the soul is there. As soon as the soul dies, goes away, the body dies.

Prabhupāda: That is the explanation of the body dies.

Indian (3): (indistinct) . . . that poison is ineffective (several talk at once)

Dr. Patel: No, I think your argument is . . . (indistinct) . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Aap aiye. (You come.) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: I have to do something with my leg. Bring the car here.

Prabhupāda: So Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, is our argument all right?

Ambarīṣa: Yes. Yes, it's good argument. It's very sound.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) What others' argument? This is my challenge.

Yaśomatīnandana: Mr. Dhrug was pointing out . . .

Prabhupāda: Where is that materialistic leader? Here is. What is your argument? Huh? (laughter)

Yaśomatīnandana: He says that you cannot bring life, but you can bring death immediately. Why is that?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Death? He's already dead. What you can bring? Rascal, don't you see that he is already dead? If you have to bring something, you have to bring life. Death is already there.

(dog barking) (woman yelling) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

(break) Bhāgavata has analyzed, yasyātmā-buddhi kunape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). And this is the beginning of mistake, taking this body as everything and then bodily issues, bodily . . . sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. And because I have got relation with some woman . . . there are thousands and millions of women, but because I have got bodily relation with some woman, I am so much attracted. That is due to the body. Actually I am not attracted to the woman. There are many millions of women, but that particular woman, wife, because I have got bodily relation with her, I think, "Oh, she is mine. She is mine." Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. Kalātrādiṣu, beginning from kalātra, then go on—children, grandchildren, father-in-law, mother-in-law, this one, this one. The beginning is the kalātra. If there is no kalātra, there is no father-in-law, mother-in-law. So sva-diḥ kalātrādiṣu.

Then bhauma idya-dhiḥ—"This is my country. I am national," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this." Why? The body has grown from this land. You see, every . . . the whole world activities is going on on this basis. Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Idya. Idya means worshipable. The brain is full with this idea, dhīḥ. Dhīḥ means buddhi. The brain is congested with all these ideas. Then he wants to become a religious man. What is that? Now, bhauma idya-dhīḥ Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. He goes to some holy place and takes bath. They go to Haridwar. The same Ganges in Calcutta, and the same Ganges in Haridwar, but he will go to Haridwar to take bath so that he may think that "I have come to some holy place." The holy place is Ganges, but Calcutta is not holy place and Haridwar is holy place. Yes. Bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. Actually Haridwar or Vṛndāvana, such places are meant to see great saintly persons, to take some knowledge from them. To take some knowledge from them, that is the purpose of going to the holy place. But without consulting them, without seeing them, he simply dips into the water and he takes, "My pilgrimage is finished." Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit janeṣv abhijñeṣv. There are many saintly persons, very experienced. They will not go there. Sa eva go-kharaḥ. These are asses. This conception of life is go-kharaḥ, animal. Go means the cows and asses. This is the explanation of this verse.

All religionists think. They go to Mecca, they go to Jerusalem—to the water. They are not eager, searching out that "Where there is some saintly person in this holy place?" No. They have no such idea. They do not want to consult. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). And this is further explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja. What is that? Tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. "All these things happen when one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious." Tato vimukha cetasaḥ. Vimukha. "Eh! What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Tato vimukha . . . Śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ māyā sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhan (SB 7.9.43).

(pause) The doctor was . . . (indistinct)

Yaśomatīnandana: Brahmānanda was . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . was . . . (indistinct)

Yaśomatīnandana: Brahmānanda Mahārāja says he's like a big wall. Everything just bounces from him.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the general way. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: . . . what they're doing is that you're not this body, so whatever you do, you just become soul-conscious and everything is all right. There were some so-called sādhus, they admit, and they say: "I am not this body. I am not attached."

Prabhupāda: No, what is that soul-conscious?

Yaśomatīnandana: He said: "Whatever my body does, I am not attached to it. I am not this body; I am spirit soul."

Prabhupāda: So I am not responsible.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. Therefore they say: "I am not this body."

Prabhupāda: Then why different bodies? If you are not responsible, then why do you get different bodies?

Yaśomatīnandana: "That is because I did not know in the past that I was . . . I am a spirit soul. But now I know that I am spirit soul."

Prabhupāda: But you did not know in the past. So you were a fool in the past; you are fool now also. Where is your advancement?

Yaśomatīnandana: "Now I know that I am a soul. I am not this . . ."

Prabhupāda: Simply by knowing soul is not good. Why you have got this body? Why everyone wants a king's body or a very nice body? Why he gets a dog's body? What is the reason? Everyone wants, "I may have a very good body so that I can enjoy." But why he is baffled? He gets a cat's body, dog's body, insect body, tree's body. He has also body, but he is standing there for hundreds of years. He cannot move an inch. So why you have got this facility of this body that you can move, you can cut, but he cannot protest? He is also body. And what is he? Who?

Yaśomatīnandana: "It is because of my past karma."

Prabhupāda: Then you must first of all rectify your karma, then talk. Past karma, you have got this body. Therefore you must rectify your karma. Karmano 'pi bodhavyam akarmana (BG 4.17). You must know what is karma, what is akarma, what is vikarma. That is knowledge. If you remain blind about your karma and by nature's way you get different body, then what is your knowledge? Just like if you go to a doctor, he says that, "Due to this infection, you have got this disease," so you know it, so that in future you will be very careful. That is knowledge." I do not know why I have got this disease, and still, I do not know what further it is going on"—that is ignorance. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. To remain in ignorance, that is the greatest sin. Tamasi mā, "Don't remain in darkness." That is Vedic injunction, "Enlighten yourself." Jyotir gama, "Go to the light." But where is your light, you do not know. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Karmīs say: "Ignorance is bliss."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice. Yes. That is dog's bliss.

Yaśomatīnandana: Then we say that, this verse, that . . .

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yaśomatīnandana: Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that, "If you know that you are not this body, then even if you kill all these people, then you are not affected by the reaction."

Prabhupāda: But kill by Kṛṣṇa's order, not whimsically.

Yaśomatīnandana: Similarly, they say that . . .

Prabhupāda: But if you know that you are not this body—"I am soul"—that what is the soul? Mamaivāṁso jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). So just like this finger is itching here—it is by my order—similarly, when you understand that you are soul, then you have to act according to the advice of Kṛṣṇa. And if you act according to the advice of Kṛṣṇa there is no pāpa. That is the meaning. To know that you are soul, then you must know what is the soul. That is . . . Kṛṣṇa explains, mamaivāṁso: "These jīva-bhūta, these living entities, they are My part and parcel." So as soon as you realize ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then you act in that Brahman platform: brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kaṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is the platform. To understand simply "I am Brahman" and remain silent, that is not. Mad-bhaktim labhate param. If you are actually brahma-bhutaḥ, then next stage is brahma-bhutaḥ means to act in devotional service. That is real. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Yaśomatīnandana: Just like when some people say . . .

Prabhupāda: Now, simply their point is that you realize or I realize Brahman, that is not the end. You realize fully. They think to Brahman means to stop all activities; now you become dull, without any activities. So that is not the end. The Bhagavad-gītā says if you are brahma-bhutaḥ, then come to this point: mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Then you will stay. And if you simply stay on brahma-bhutaḥ stage, then you'll again fall down. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, that ye 'nye 'ravindakṣa vimukta-maninaḥ. They are thinking, "Now I am relieved from the conditional life." But actually he's not. Ye 'nye 'ravindakṣa vimukta-maninaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They are thinking like that, "Now I am liberated." He's not liberated. Why? Tvayy aṣṭa-bhavat. Aṣṭa-bhavat: "He has no still information of You." If he is actually brahma-bhutaḥ, then he knows the Supreme Brahman, Para-brahman, and then he engages himself in His service. And when he is engaged in that service there is no question of material, tri-gunātmākam. Sa-guṇan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya . . . (BG 14.26). That is real Brahman, when he is above these three guṇas. Otherwise, if you think, "Now I have become liberated," maybe by your liberation liberated, but it will not stay. You'll fall down again. Just like this land. You can take it—here is land—but at night it will be water. Is it not?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You must go to the real land. If you take, "This is land. Now I am safe," no, that is not safe. At night it will be overcome. And that, to go to the real land, means to become a devotee. Then it will stay. If you are suffering from some disease, you see now the temperature is gone down or there is no temperature, that is all right. But if you do not take care, it may relapse. That is the point. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati (BG 18.54). These are brahma-bhutaḥ stage. But samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktim. If he does not go up to that point, mad-bhaktim labhate param, then you are unstable. You can fall down at any moment. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). If you are in Brahman stage, then you make further progress to understand Paramātmā. Then you must make further progress to understand the Supreme Person, God. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti. So unless you come to the stage of understanding Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no safety. Then he may fall down at any moment. Therefore we see so, so many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, yogīs, they fall down. They fall down. Big, big sannyāsī, they, after studying so much . . . the Karpatrajī, now he is fall down to politics. Vivekananda, he fell down to hospital. That is falldown. You say, brahma satya jagan mithya, "The world is false." Why you come down to false again? That means you did not get any substance in your so-called Brahman knowledge.

Yaśomatīnandana: Vivekananda fell down still further, because he said . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, further . . . not . . . at least we can see this, that after preaching Vedānta, he came in India. He became captivated with hospital—as if there was no hospital. There are many thousands of hospital, and ordinary men, they are inclined to open hospitals. Why . . .? You have realized brahma-satya. Why you come to hospital? And nobody questions. Your progress would have been completed when you, in . . . mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54), if you had been promoted to the bhakti stage. That you haven't got. You come to the hospital stage. That means falling down. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: That is also propounded by him only that, "You can do anything as long as you know that you are not this body, you are soul." I heard that one day he went into the Muslim mosque and said: "Today I am a Muslim, so I can eat beef today. Tomorrow I am a Christian, so I can eat this. Because I am not this body," he said.

Prabhupāda: That was done by Ramakrishna also. And when he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple that, "Now I shall practice the Muslim way of religion. So I shall eat beef," so the proprietor said: "Kindly go out and practice it outside." (laughter) (break) . . . exemplified like this: on the glass it appears like a sun, but it is not sun. A reflection, pratibiṁba. (break) A man can understand that dahī (curd) is nothing but milk. Dudh hi hai yeh sab koi janta hai. phir chote bacche ko dahi kyo nahi diya jata hai, dudh kyo diya jata hai yeh sab poocho. yeh tum samjho. yeh to sabhi jante hain ki raat mei dudh ko dahi banate hain to phir savere bachhe ke liye khane ke liye dahi kyu nahi diya jata hai , dudh ki apeksha kyu karna chahiye. iska jawab pucho, tum do. yeh to kaun nahi janta hai ki raat mei dudh ka hum dahi banaya hai aur dahi mauzood hai aur dudh abhi tak pahuncha nahi to chalo dahi khilado, kyun nahi diya. Why do you wait for the milk? Naukar bol dega are usme kya farak padta hai, dudh hi hai, do usei, phir ho gaya kaam. bacche ko pneumonia hoga, marega. kyun aisa? dudh aur dahi ek hi hai. Kyu usko dahi nahi diya jata, dudh ke liye apeksha karna, boliye aap. (It is milk, everyone knows that. Why is a small child not given curd—why milk given? You ask this, you understand this. Everyone knows this. Everyone knows that curd is made out of milk at night, so why in the morning is the child not given curd to eat? Why should you wait for milk? Find an answer for this . . . . you reply. Everyone knows that in the night we have made curd out of milk and curd is available. Milk has not come, so why not give curd to eat? Why do you wait for milk? Tell me what difference it makes. It is milk—give it, then finished. The child will have pneumonia and die. Why is it like this? Milk and curd are the same. Why is curd not given? Why should you wait for milk—tell me.)

Indian man (4): Effect chala jayega. (The effect will go.) Different effect of dahī and dudh.

Prabhupāda: Why different effect? Hai to milk, kyu different hoga? (It is milk, why would it be different?)

Indian man (4): Practices are changed after.

Prabhupāda: That one has to understand. Shivji Bhagavan hi hai parantu unka kaam doosra hai. Bhagavan to hum bhi hai . . . 'svamsa vibhinnaamsa' 'eko bahu shyama' ek hi Bhagavan sab itna hua hai. To ek hi bhagavan hai isko puja karo, sabhi bhagavan hai 'sarvam idam khalida brahma' to isko puja karo tum mandir kyu jaate ho? (Siva is God but his duty is different. We are also God . . . so there is only one God, worship Him—everyone is God . . . so worship Him. Why do you go to the temple?)

Indian man: Wo iska bolne ka matlab kya hai yeh dono cheez alag-alag hai. (What he wanted to say was these two are different.)

Prabhupada: Aakhir tum samjho phir uska baat le aao. Tum samjho ge to tum samjha sakoge. Tum samjho yeh kyu hota hai. Sabhi jante hai ki dudh dahi, dahi kuch nahi hai dudh hai, phir dahi se dudh ka kaam nahi chalta hai. Jo kuch hai uska effect bhi alag hai. 'sarva yonisu kaunteya' 'aham bija pradah pita' jis swaroop se . . . kya hua bhagavan bhakt ka. (First you understand and then bring in his argument. If you understand then you can explain it to others. Everyone knows curd milk, curd is nothing but milk curd, it does not serve the purpose of milk. Whatever there is, the effect is different. "Sarva yonisu kaunteya' 'aham bija pradah pita". What happened to God and His devotee . . .) (end)