750412 - Conversation A - Hyderabad

Conversations by Date, 1975

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

750412R1-HYDERABAD - April 12, 1975 - 38:43 Minutes

(Conversation with Indian Guests)

Prabhupāda: . . . nānyat. Na anyat. So this is going on. And where is surrender? If you don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then what is the meaning of this surrender? This is going on. Our . . . one Swāmījī, is there in Bombay, Chinmayananda. He is a big speaker in Bhagavad-gītā, and he has constructed temple—Śiva-liṅga, the genital of Lord Śiva. Just see.

Mahāṁsa: He said he has translated . . . his interpretation of Kṛṣṇa is that this "Kṛṣṇa means black. Black is ignorance. So Kṛṣṇa is ignorance."

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Indian man (1): I think one of the best persons in Madras who is translating the Prita-Gītā, isn't it? Chinmayananda Swami.

Indian man (2): Chinmayananda?

Indian man (1): Yes. I have heard it.

Indian man (2): Ramana Maharshi has . . .

Indian man (1): Ramana Maharshi was a great man.

Prabhupāda: Rāmānuja bhāṣya is a fact.

Indian man (1): Ramana Maharshi?

Prabhupāda: Ramana Maharshi? No, he did not.

Indian man (1): The Ramana Maharshi is actually a . . . read Bhagavad-gītā. He requested you, "You should always read it."

Prabhupāda: "Always read it," but he never preached about Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (1): Eh?

Prabhupāda: But he never preached about Kṛṣṇa. He may be always reading, but he did not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He never spoke that, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." Never spoke. So what is the use of reading?

Indian man (1): Ramana Maharshi?

Prabhupāda: Ramana Maharshi, yes, I am speaking of Ramana Maharshi. He never preached about Kṛṣṇa's superexcellent position, never preached. This is going on. Everyone is taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and he's preaching in his own way, foolish way. "Own way" means foolish way. This is going on. You cannot . . . suppose you have got your philosophy, but you cannot take my book and preach your philosophy. If you have got philosophy, you write your philosophy. Why do you take advantage of my book and misinterpret? This is cheating. Because my book is very popular, you take advantage of my book and preach your own nonsense philosophy. This is going on. If you want to smoke gañjā, you smoke in your own hand. Why you capture my hand and smoke? What is this? So the gañjā-smelling will be in my hand, not in your hand. This is going on.

Why do they take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and preach their nonsense philosophy? That is our protest. You preach your nonsense philosophy—we have no objection—but don't touch Bhagavad-gītā. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What is the . . . do you think it is honesty that you want to preach something of your own philosophy and you take advantage of my book and mislead others? Is that very good, honest business? This is going on. This is going on, very dangerous position. In our country, and what to speak of other countries, all these svāmīs, yogīs and politicians and scholars, they are doing like this. Very dangerous position. Why should you touch Bhagavad-gītā? You speak, you preach your own philosophy. There are so many philosophies. But our only objection is that, "Why should you preach your nonsense philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā?" Do you think it is right?

Indian man (1): It's not right.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): It's not right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you should understand.

Indian man (2): To not believe Kṛṣṇa and preaching Bhagavad-gītā . . .

Indian man (1): The thing is, Ramana Maharshi did preach Bhagavad-gītā. He had . . . (indistinct) . . . so he kept quiet.

Prabhupāda: Why should he kept quiet if he has read Bhagavad-gītā?

Indian man (3): No. But, say, it's like this. Man who has understood philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā probably will not attach much importance later whether it's Kṛṣṇa, Śiva or somebody else, once he has reached the supreme state.

Prabhupāda: No, if Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am the supreme . . ."

Indian man (3): Yes, He says . . .

Prabhupāda: So if you read Bhagavad-gītā, then you must accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Otherwise, what is the use of . . .?

Indian man (3): No, thing is . . . is that Kṛṣṇa is not Supreme. Just because somebody doesn't pronounce the name of Kṛṣṇa, that doesn't mean that . . .

Prabhupāda: That means he does not accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme. Therefore he does not pronounce. That is the . . . if he understands that Kṛṣṇa is Supreme, he should . . . just like we have understood. We are chanting always, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa . . . this is understanding, not, not . . . if you . . . Kṛṣṇa says, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). That is Kṛṣṇa. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: "Always chanting about Me."

Indian man (3): Yeah, but the thing is . . .

Prabhupāda: There is no "but." This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. You have to accept it. Otherwise, you don't read Bhagavad-gītā. That's all.

Indian man (3): The question is . . .

Prabhupāda: It is, it . . . there is no question of "but." Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). If you do not do that, then what is the use of your reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you do not follow these instructions of Kṛṣṇa, then where do you . . . why do you waste your time reading Bhagavad-gītā, and mislead others? That is our protest. All these misleaders . . . perhaps, throughout the whole world, it is the first time—we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We are the only institution in the world that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and people are liking it. Before that, for the last two hundred years, so many svāmīs, yogīs and . . . they tried to preach Hindu philosophy, Vaiṣṇavism, not a single person was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, not a single person. Now you see so many young men. Why? Why this difference? Because we did not present Bhagavad-gītā adulterated. Presented as it is, that's all.

What is the use of preaching adulterated things? Everyone wants that appeals as it is. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We are preaching the same thing—"Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You remember Kṛṣṇa always." This is the simplest process. You see all these young boys, they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And they are becoming purified from the mode of our life. And these svāmīs and yogīs preached so many years, not a single person was purified. They were drinking; they were having sex. How they can be purified? And in India even, these things are going on, the land of Bhagavad-gītā, the land of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to read Bhagavad-gītā, you take it. You follow it. Then everything will be done. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati (BG 9.31). Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). These things are there. You may be fallen, downtrodden, but if you take to Kṛṣṇa's instructions, then kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā, very soon you'll become . . . Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). These things are there. And nobody is serious to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They'll talk all nonsense, but he'll not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is going on.

So our task is very difficult, and especially all these prohibitive rules: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or chewing pān. So who will accept this philosophy? It is very difficult. Nobody can. Unless he is very serious about Kṛṣṇa, nobody will take. They have not taken. These principles are our Indian principle. Striyas-suna-pana dyutaḥ yatra pāpas catur vidhaḥ. But who is taking this? Now they are becoming expert in intoxication, drinking wine. You see. This is India's position. In Europe, America, they do that, because there was no such philosophy. But India . . . here it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya karmaṇām (BG 7.28). That, nobody's interested. Everyone is doing all sorts of sinful activities. And Kṛṣṇa says, yeṣāṁ tu anta-gataṁ pāpam—he can understand Kṛṣṇa. But nobody is prepared to give up sinful activities. And how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is not very easy to be understood. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). One who is siddha, perfect, yatatām api siddhānām . . . (BG 7.3). Out of many millions of siddhas, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. This is . . . these things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. But nobody cares for that. He lives in his own way, and he has become a big authority, that's all. This rascaldom is going on. Only these few European and American boys, they have taken my words seriously. And therefore, with their help, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is moving. Otherwise, where is Indian? You are young men. If I say: "You come and join us," you won't do it. But they have done it.

Indian man (3): I have got lot of . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone has got lot of responsibility. I know. But Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is Kṛṣṇa's demand. Everyone has got a lot of responsibility.

Indian man (3): I don't say responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Indian man (3): I say they have got a lot of bhakti towards Kṛṣṇa, because in the house, all of us are . . .

Prabhupāda: Then preach Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. That is Kṛṣṇa's order.

Guest (3): Daily we celebrate that Rādhā-kalyāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Why you play Rādhā-kalyāṇa? Preach Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. Why do you go to Rādhā? First of all try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā has never said about Rādhā. That is very confidential. So why do you jump to Rādhā? Has Kṛṣṇa said anything about Rādhārāṇī in the Bhagavad-gītā?

Indian man (3): Even in the Bhāgavatam you don't see the . . .

Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā . . . there, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politician, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī? You . . . if you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt (CC Adi 1.5). You have to understand Kṛṣṇa, then His pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti.

The difficulty is that we do not want to become a regular student. Haphazardously, here and there, here and there, but I remain the same thing. It is a science. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Tad vijñāna samanvitam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyāmi anasūyave, yaj jñātvā na anyaj jñātavyam mam avaśiṣyate . . . (BG 7.2). (break) And others will support, "Yes. Whatever you think, it is all right. It is all right." And he will think, "Yes, whatever I am thinking, it is all right." You see? But the Vedas do not say like that. Vedas say, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you are serious to learn about that, tad vijñāna, tad vijñānaṁ, gurum evābhigacchet: you must go to a bona fide guru who can teach you. Nobody is serious. That is the difficulty. Everyone is thinking, "I am free," although he is pulled by the ear by nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). "You have done like this. Come on, here. Sit down." This is going on, prakṛti. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, befooled by his false ego, he is thinking, "I am everything. I am independent." Those who are thinking like that, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṅkāra vimūḍhātmā. By false ego he is bewildered, and thinking, "What I am thinking is all right." No, you cannot think in your own way. You must think as Kṛṣṇa says, then you are right. Otherwise, you are thinking under the spell of māyā, that's all. Tribhir guṇamāyāir bhavair mohita, nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛti sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). These things are there. Read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, follow the rules and regulation, then your life will be successful. And so long you have got, "This is also right, that is also right," then you will not do the right thing. You will all be misled. That's all. That is not . . . (indistinct) . . . what Kṛṣṇa says, that is right. That should be the judgment. Otherwise you will be misled.

So we are trying to preach this philosophy in that way. Maybe very small number, but ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasra (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita): if there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling? So that is our propaganda. If one man can understand what is Kṛṣṇa philosophy, then my preaching is successful, that's all. We don't want many millions of stars with no light. What is the use of millions of stars with no light? That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice: varam eka putra na ca mūrkha-śatair api. One son, if he is learned, that is sufficient. Na ca mūrkha-śatair api. What is the use of hundreds of sons, all fools and rascals? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasra. One moon is sufficient to illuminate. There is no need of millions of stars. Similarly, we are not after many millions of disciples. I want to see that one disciple has understood Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. That is success. That's all. Kṛṣṇa says, yatatām api siddhānāṁ, kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). So, first of all, to become siddha is very difficult job. And then, yatatām api siddhānām: there is still difficult job.

So Kṛṣṇa philosophy is little difficult to understand. If they are understanding so easily, that is not understanding. It is easy, it is easy if you accept Kṛṣṇa's words. It is very easy. That is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakta, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: "Always think of Me." So where is the difficulty? You have seen Kṛṣṇa's picture, Kṛṣṇa's Deity, and if we think Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? After all, we have to think something. So instead of something, why not think Kṛṣṇa? Where is the difficulty? But he does not take seriously. He has to think so many things except Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakta. There is no difficulty to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not at all. But people will not take it, that is the difficulty. They will argue simply. Kūṭaka. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakta. Where is the argument against it? You are saying that they may not think of Kṛṣṇa, they may not say about Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakta. This is argument, this is not philosophy. Philosophy is there, direct, "You should do like this," that's all. You do it and get the results. You go to purchase something, the price is fixed up, you pay the price and take it. Where is argument? If you are. . . if you serious about that thing, you may pay price and take it.

That is the advice of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī: kṛṣṇa-bhakti rasa-bhāvitā-matiḥ kriyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate (CC Madhya 8.70). If you can purchase somewhere the thinking of Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-bhakti rasa-bhāvitā mati . . . that is, we have translated into "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." If you can purchase this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, somewhere, immediately purchase it. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti rasa-bhāvita-mati, kriyatām, just purchase, yadi kuto 'pi labhyate, if it is available somewhere. And if I have to purchase, then what price? Tatra laulyam ekaṁ mūlam. Na janma-kuto 'pi labhyate. If you want what is the price, he says the price is your eagerness. And that eagerness, to obtain it takes many millions of births. Why you want Kṛṣṇa? Just like the other day I said that if one has seen Kṛṣṇa, he will become mad after Kṛṣṇa. (indistinct aside comment by devotee) Yes. That is the sign. These boys are certified in their own country by the Christian priests that, "These boys are our boys. They will never coming into church, they are never interested about God, and now they are mad after God. What is this?" Because that is the price only to purchase Kṛṣṇa: to mad after Him—"Where is Kṛṣṇa?" He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ. "Where You are? Where You are?" Śrī-govardhana pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ. "Are You under the valley of Govardhana Hill or on the bank of the Yamunā? Where You are?" Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure. That was their Kṛṣṇa consciousness, simply wondering "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato pure khedair mahā-vihvalau. Madlike, vihvalau. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-go . . . this is, this price wanted, then you can get Kṛṣṇa, you can understand Kṛṣṇa. It is not so cheap. Anyone can comment on Kṛṣṇa whimsically, and he becomes a devotee. That is not possible. That is going on, "I can interpret in my own way." Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam . . . (indistinct) . . . somebody is taking Kṛṣṇa is black, somebody is taking Kṛṣṇa as something else. Who says Kṛṣṇa is black? Who told me?

Mahāṁsa: Chinmayananda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa means "black." Sapta nuraman pure sita kar baba. One has studied all the Rāmāyaṇa, seven cantos, seven khandas, and he is asking, "Whose father is Sītā?" Sītā is a feminine, and the Rāmāyaṇa expert is asking, "Whose father is Sītā?" This is their education. They are becoming big lecturer on Bhagavad-gītā, he has understood Kṛṣṇa means "black," that's all. And people are following blindly. Big svāmījī is speaking.

Indian man: Can we say black boy? black

Mahāṁsa: Kṛṣṇa means, actually in Sanskrit, one of the meanings of the word Kṛṣṇa . . .

Indian man: That is . . .

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive, that will not he'll not explain. In the Brahma-saṁhitā, it is said, asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ (Bs. 5.30). Asitām, sundaram: He is blackish, but He is so attractive, more attractive than many millions of Cupid.

Indian man: Main samajtha hoon unhone uski taareef ki hogi Chinmayananda. (I understand he would have praised Him.)

Prabhupada: Haan? (What?)

Indian man: Hamaare kya naam hai unka, Chinna . . . khali ek word ka . . . (What is his name, Chinna . . . only one word . . .)

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why you should commit offense like that? It is a great offense to decry Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man: (indistinct) . . . describe Him as blackish or black.

Prabhupāda: But why does he say Kṛṣṇa means black?

Indian man: Kṛṣṇa means black, woh to sanskrit word hai . . . (that is a Sanskrit word.) Somebody questioned me: "What is Kṛṣṇa means?" Then apart from this, Sanskrit reply he gave: "Kṛṣṇa means black also."

Prabhupāda: So why did he not say Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive?

Indian man: As far as Kṛṣṇa's features are concerned, we know it is . . . (indistinct) . . . black . . . . (indistinct)

Mahāṁsa: The last time we had come here, I had come to just see on the first day what he says. So on the first day he said that, "Now we'll have a gītā-jñāna yajña," and he said, "We will take the ślokas which are suitable, and which ślokas are not suitable . . ."

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Mahāṁsa: ". . . we'll reject those ślokas."

Prabhupāda: Not suitable.

Mahāṁsa: I heard that with my own ears. He said . . .

Indian man: From Bhagavad-gītā?

Mahāṁsa: Yes. He said: "We will take the ślokas which are suitable, and which are not suitable, we'll reject those ślokas."

Prabhupāda: Just see. He is to judge which is suitable, which is not suitable. Just see this foolishness. Chinmayananda or any ordinary person, he is to judge which śloka is suitable, which is not suitable. That means he is more than Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has spoken something unsuitable—which he can judge. This is the position.

Indian man: I believe that in another sense whatever is written, we should take the sweet from the . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: There is no sweets . . .

Indian man: . . . and if there are some . . .

Mahāṁsa: Everything is sweet in Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian man: . . . the other part is there, you don't attack that other part. That meaning might be.

Prabhupāda: No. Other part, there is no other part. There is only one part. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

So there is no other part. It is direct meaning. If anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is either duṣkṛtinaḥ, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, asuriṁ bhāvam.

Indian man: Don't attack the . . . (indistinct) . . . part. Don't attack the part of death. It might be I . . .

Mahāṁsa: He was going to . . . (indistinct) . . . ślokas. He said he will not accept ślokas which are. . . we can accept, those which we cannot accept we will . . .

Prabhupāda: Reject.

Mahāṁsa: . . . we will go for the next one.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Mahāṁsa: That was the reference. He was saying: "Now from today onwards, I will start on this chapter and we will go on to these ślokas." He was referring to the ślokas.

Prabhupāda: Now Kṛṣṇa has written Bhagavad-gītā . . . not written, has spoken Bhagavad-gītā, and He is speaking to me, and I have to judge which is suitable? This is . . . is that my position?

Indian man: Perhaps what happens here . . .

Prabhupāda: No "perhaps." He says that, "What is suitable, we accept. And not suitable, reject." Now who will judge which is suitable and which is not suitable? That is the question.

Mahāṁsa: He will.

Indian man: Here when he comes just for one day or ten days that . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, what is your answer to this?

Indian man: That is what I'm answering.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man: I was just saying that . . . what he does, each day he takes one śloka, and just goes on giving discourse for an hour or whatever . . . (indistinct) . . . ten minutes only he speaks after his . . . (indistinct) . . . and then during the each . . . (indistinct) . . . particular śloka or a particular canto. Then he starts speaking, and during the course of an hour . . . (indistinct) . . . he just has his discussion, "Now this canto or śloka, we will take and we will discuss."

Prabhupāda: No, I have read some of his . . .

Indian man: . . . because his Gītā is there, all ślokas are there.

Prabhupāda: He has said somewhere, I don't particularly know, "The Indian priests think like that."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In his Gītā, in the verse that describes how to meditate on the formless, he states that although it says in the Bhagavad-gītā that it is very difficult to understand the formless aspect, he says this was true five thousand years ago, but now it is no longer true.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have read in his Gītā.

Indian man: Five thousand years ago it must have been true, but now . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is the verse, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktā-sakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). So in explaining that śloka he said, "It was painful five thousand years ago, but it is not now painful. It has become easy." That means the version of Gītā can be changed after five thousand years. Then what is the importance of speaking by Kṛṣṇa if it is changeable like material things? Then what is the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Is it changeable?

Indian man: Usme to koi change nahi kar sakta hai. (No one can make a change in that.)

Prabhupāda: Woh to bolta hai change ho gaya. Ab 5000 years ho gaya. (Only that I say, it has changed. Now it has been 5,000 years.)

Indian man: Man karta hai kuch bhi nikaal do . . . (They can remove anything as per their wish . . .)

Prabhupāda: Yehi to chal raha hai. (This is what is going on.)

Indian man: Haan, woh . . . (Yes, that . . .)

Indian man: It is the interpretation . . .

Prabhupad: First thing is that why interpretation?

Indian man: Jo sab theek karta hai wohi lena padega na. (That which is only right must be taken.)

Prabhupad: First thing is why interpretation? If the meaning is straight, just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). And someone is interpreting, "Dharma-kṣetre means this body," why this interpretation? Eh? The dharma-kṣetra, kuru-kṣetra is still existing; the station is there. People are going as dharmakṣetra. Kurukṣetra dharma ācāret . . . this is the Vedic instruction, that everyone should go to Kurukṣetra and perform ritualistic duties. That is being done, and it is written, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Why interpretation?

Indian man: Woh to khali apni vidhwatta badhane ke liye . . . (That is only to increase their greatness . . .)

Prabhupāda: Bās. (That's all.) Vidhwatta nahi apki badmaashi. Yeh sab chal raha hai. (Not greatness, this is your mischief. This is all going on.)

Indian man: Aap to bol saktey hain. Hamare liye mushkil hai. (You can tell, but for me it is very difficult.)

Prabhupad: VIdhwatta. You are more than Kṛṣṇa? You are so . . . you have got the audacity to speak more than Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man: Are, woh to ek scene Ramayan mein dekha kis tarah uska relation kiye. Bus paanch jindagi hai . . . ki pura shareer ke upar logon ne, ab batatey hain woh. (Oh that, I saw one scene in the Ramayana, how they brought out the relationship. Only five lives . . . on the whole body people did it, now they tell.)

Prabhupad: The interpretation . . .

Indian man: Itihas ko badalney ka kya jaroorat, jo khali mane apna . . . (What is the need to change history? I mean only your . . .)

Prabhupad: Ye sabse kaam nahi banega. (It will not work like this.)

Indian man: Woh to theek hai. Itihas jo hai, itihas yahi. (That's all right. History, this is history.)

Indian Man: Aisa interpretation maine bhi suna tha jab Dharmakshetra ka pehla shabd liya tha. Aur antim ke Gita mein 'mama' aata hai. 'Mama' dharm, dharm 'mama'. yani Gita mein jitna bhi vyakhyat ki gayi hai mera dharm kya hai vo usme bataya gaya hai. Hindi ke dictation, halanki pehle ke . . . mein aur aaj ke . . . kaoi sambandh nahi hai. (This type of interpretation I had also heard when the first word of Dharmaksetra was taken. And at the end of Gita mama comes. Mama dharm, dharm mama. That means in Gita whatever description is there, what is my religion, that is mentioned in that. The dictation of Hindi, even though there is no connection between earlier . . . and today's . . .)

Śrutakīrti: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We have to go. It's quarter to seven.

Prabhupāda: We are discussing the same thing, we go or not go. (laughter)

Śrutakīrti: There will be several thousand. Many people.

Prabhupāda: Yeh sab aap log acchi tarah se . . . (All this is nice you people . . .) you are a young man, therefore I am requesting you—don't be misled by these blind leaders. Take Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and you'll be happy.

Indian man: Ab apne aap par utaar ke dekho bhai, usme to ek-ek shabd . . . usko to aap padhte jayiye aur apne saath link karte jayiye. (Now you take a look at yourself, in that every word . . . that you go on reading it and go on linking it with yourself.)

Prabhupāda: The meaning is clear, very clear. There is no question of interpretation.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)