730228 - Conversation B - Jakarta

Conversations by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

• This was previously 730228 - Conversation A - Jakarta

730228R2-JAKARTA - February 28, 1973 - 25:38 Minutes

(poor audio)

Japanese Guest: . . . Japanese born in Tokyo.

Prabhupāda: We have got our branch in Tokyo.

Japanese Guest: (Japanese)

Prabhupāda: So you are trying to understand our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Japanese Guest: Philosophy of, yes, yes . . . Hong Kong branch. (Japanese) . . . not in Japanese language. Now you have some Japanese language also?

Prabhupāda: Japanese paper we have got.

Amogha: I don't have any, but in Japan they have it. I can get it by post. I will write a letter.

Japanese Guest: (Japanese) Illustration of Second Canto.

Prabhupāda: So you like Kṛṣṇa? You like Kṛṣṇa?

Japanese Guest: Yes. (looking through book)

Prabhupāda: So you are staying here, Jakarta?

Japanese Guest: One year more. One year more. And I proceed to Beirut, Morocco. And I go to Andalusia.

Prabhupāda: Morocco.

Japanese Guest: Morocco. From Morocco, Rabat, I go to Andalusia. I think it takes an . . . (indistinct) . . . Asturias. I don't need Asturias, but Andalusia. Then I go to Edinburgh. Edinburgh. Before, about forty, more than forty years ago, I have been Edinburgh.

Prabhupāda: We have got temple there.

Japanese Guest: Edinburgh.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Japanese Guest: Nice place.

Prabhupāda: What is the address, Edinburgh?

Japanese Guest: Scotland. Capital.

Amogha: Scotland. (looks up address)

Japanese Guest: Fried bread. Good bread. Fried or . . .

Amogha: The address is here: Flat No. 6, 11 Greenhill Place, Scotland. Edinburgh.

Japanese Guest: Edinburgh. But only one year I'll be. I'll go back to Tokyo. I have my house, Tokyo. About 1980. Still I have my house, well, it's actually of my mother, but this is . . . (indistinct) . . . for myself a small house there, and I will stay in Tokyo. After 80 decade, 1980, I go back.

Prabhupāda: He has left Tokyo in 1980?

Amogha: No. He said he is going back to Tokyo by 1980.

Japanese Guest: Yes. Go back Tokyo. My born; maybe I die in Tokyo later. I leave . . . I have left Tokyo '63 and go around the India . . .

Prabhupāda: You have been in India?

Japanese Guest: Yes. Birla Mandir I stayed two years.

Prabhupāda: Birla Mandir. Delhi.

Japanese Guest: Delhi.

Prabhupāda: I see.

Japanese Guest: And initiated, and . . . (indistinct) . . . by Radhaswami.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Japanese Guest: And also see some Pondicherry, but never been . . . (indistinct) . . . this great river, Gaṅgā. But house Pondicherry . . . (indistinct) . . . evacuated . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You stayed in India for two years?

Japanese Guest: Yes, sir. One year Pakistan. One year in Pakistan, Lahore, and only summer time evacuated, because Lahore is north of it, Kashmir side, rather more north.

Prabhupāda: So you are by religion Muhammadan?

Japanese Guest: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: By religion?

Japanese Guest: No. But I study Shintoism in Japan, with a . . . (indistinct) . . . this is the base of culture, Japanese culture . . . (indistinct) . . . the Western modern civilization based on Descartes . . . (indistinct) . . . many gods and goddess . . .

Amogha: Shintoism is a very old Japanese religion. They have many worshiping of demigods and goddesses . . .

Japanese Guest: Yes, the same, classic Greek mythology based on modern Western civilization. And do you understand Japanese, all character . . . (indistinct) . . . logical study based on Shintoism, basic of three . . . (indistinct) . . . from south side island, one third, and Mongolian, one third, and . . . (indistinct) . . . one race . . . (indistinct) . . . one Japanese . . . (indistinct) . . . by Shintoism, world mythology, same as the Greek mythology, gods and . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What you are doing here?

Japanese Guest: Too hot. Too hot. No program . . . (indistinct) . . . but now I am pensioner even in Japan . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Get pension from Japan?

Japanese Guest: From Japan, twenty-five percent of salary. So it's not enough, same society, same society, salary time in Japan. So I came here, evacuation. I left, moreover, I have two . . . (indistinct) . . . in Tokyo . . . (indistinct) . . . by my mother and father. This is . . . (indistinct) . . . before I had four—one wife and one only daughter, but both . . . (indistinct) . . . passed away, I'm widower. So I was anywhere same alone, widower, so I left Japan '63, for India first . . . (indistinct)

Kabul, Peshawar and Tehran, Karachi, and I come here '66. Too long here, but I cannot be enthusiastic because India is easiest place to live, easiest places to live. But too long. So I will leave from here maybe next year, via Beirut to Alexandria. I take a bus Beirut . . . (indistinct) . . . and take ship to go Alexandria . . . (indistinct) . . . Egyptian, Turkey, Alexandria. And from there along the south coast Mediterranean up to Rabat, Morocco. Rabat. Before war time pre war time I was several times all . . . (indistinct) . . . Suez Canal . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He has traveled all over the world.

Amogha: Yes. He has.

Japanese Guest: When my young period. Young period.

Prabhupāda: What is your age now? What is your age now?

Japanese Guest: Seventy-two. I like the ship, so old man prefers cheaper trip than air, by Suez Canal. So I take air from Indonesia . . . (indistinct) . . . only and take ship to Alexandria . . . (indistinct) . . . I saw only. And from Alexandria to Morocco I take popular bus, big bus like Union Pacific before, from east side the west side America, we take big bus, the people's bus. Four days only I arrive at Tangier and to Morocco. And maybe I cross to Andalusia, Spain, Spain, not near the Madrid, Castilian.

But even I got to again take ship from . . . (indistinct) . . . Doha, and Dubai . . . (indistinct) . . . a railway from Manchester to . . . (indistinct) . . . So still seven years I loitering. And this only to see old friend in Edinburgh, and I see old, old man. I realize I am also old man. Not so long time, within one year I down . . .

I never been South America, only up to Mexico, so I go to Montevideo . . . (indistinct) . . . and stay, I contracted only one contract three years, but I want to work, job, one year, highest salary there, so and finish I go to Argentina from Santiago, Chile, I take the ship again to Sydney, my younger brother, Sydney, and go back from . . . (indistinct) . . . via Taiwan to Tokyo.

Prabhupāda: In Sydney also we have got temple.

Japanese Guest: Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . where?

Amogha: I can show you.

Prabhupāda: Australia's . . . find Australia's . . .

Japanese Guest: Australia, never. Only my younger brother . . .

Prabhupāda: Australia, Sydney.

Amogha: We have a temple in Sydney, Australia.

Japanese Guest: And Edinburgh?

Amogha: 83 Hereford Street.

Japanese Guest: Yes, sir.

Amogha: And in Melbourne.

Japanese Guest: So you have been already . . .

Prabhupāda: You become one of the Life Members of our Society and you can go anywhere and stay there.

Japanese Guest: Like Birla Mandir or āśrama in India, āśramas like that . . .

Prabhupāda: In India, Calcutta, Bombay, Delhi have got branches.

Japanese Guest: Yes. Pondicherry, Rabindranath āśrama, Rabindranath, Pondicherry. Aurobindo. Nanda's āśrama, in Bangalore. India. Only Delhi I've been to āśrama . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: This is a cap with the Japanese cap?

Japanese Guest: No, sir. National Congress, National India. This is a . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Gandhi cap.

Amogha: Indian National Congress.

Japanese Guest: Indian Independence Party, National Congress party for independence, they . . . (indistinct) . . . this is poor national cap with Indonesia, they have black one. It is really hot.

Amogha: The Muslims wear the black one, he says; it is very hot, but this is cool.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Japanese Guest: Nearly bald head, I cover with this . . .

Prabhupāda: Nowadays gradually, everyone is giving up cap. First of all, only the Bengalis were the capless nation. Now gradually, it has spread all over the world. Nobody now uses hats or caps.

Japanese Guest: We like the cover cap.

Guest (2): You don't shave?

Japanese Guest: You don't shave more, only shaving clean shave only . . . (indistinct)

Amogha: You are asking me?

Japanese Guest: Yes.

Amogha: Yes. About every two weeks.

Japanese Guest: Every two weeks. What mean this symbol?

Prabhupāda: Flag. It is flag.

Japanese Guest: Flag? . . . (indistinct) . . . not a . . . (indistinct) . . .? It is better to do like this?

Amogha: Yes.

Japanese Guest: And some Indian gentlemen only married here . . . (indistinct) . . . and . . .

Prabhupāda: This is temple. Temple.

Japanese Guest: Yes. Temple.

Prabhupāda: Lord's temple.

Amogha: The Lord's temple. Temple of God.

Japanese Guest: (Japanese with another guest)

Amogha: Yes.

Japanese Guest: This quite different Japanese, Asian sometimes, but European made never like this, only female, lady like this Europe.

Prabhupāda: No. It is sacred thread. Sacred thread.

Japanese Guest: Amulet.

Amogha: Sacred thread.

Japanese Guest: Thread.

Amogha: Thread, sacred.

Japanese Guest: Sacred thread. Not amulet, pendulum, no. Only thread, some sacrament or some special mysterious power.

Prabhupāda: Brahminical. Brahminical thread.

Japanese Guest: Brahma, brahminical.

Guest (Indonesian man): I explain. (Indonesian, explaining to other guest)

Japanese Guest: Every Hindu have this one.

Guest: Yes.

Japanese Guest: Hinduism . . . (indistinct) . . . in India. From where you get it?

Prabhupāda: You can prepare it, in the hand.

Japanese Guest: Prepare by yourself handmade.

Prabhupāda: At home.

Japanese Guest: But some . . . why this come sacred?

Guest: (Indonesian, explaining)

Japanese Guest: . . . ceremony, by some ceremony purification, sanctified needed like I have now this one. But this is not sacred yet. How do become sacred this thread?

Prabhupāda: You have to give up this four prohibitives.

Japanese Guest: By sacrament maybe?

Prabhupāda: By taking vow not to indulge in four prohibitives. Explain.

Amogha: Oh. I'm not very expert yet.

Prabhupāda: No, you can say it in English.

Amogha: Oh, in English. We have a special private ceremony . . .

Japanese Guest: Ceremony.

Amogha: And we must take a vow of . . .

Japanese Guest: A vow?

Amogha: We agree. We must agree to stop certain sins. We . . .

Japanese Guest: Stop the sin ,you mean.

Amogha: Ya, ya, before.

Japanese Guest: . . . (indistinct) . . . hundred eight sin.

Amogha: Well, four basic sinning.

Japanese Guest: Yes.

Amogha: Meat-eating, eating meat; illicit sex; gambling; and intoxication.

Japanese Guest: Toxication, yes.

Amogha: Alcohol and those things. And we must . . . every day we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, sixteen times.

Japanese Guest: Sixteen times.

Amogha: On beads.

Japanese Guest: Yes, yes. Rosary. Rosary . . .

Amogha: After one year we may become initiated with this. And every day, three times, we use this for prayer, Gāyatrī mantra.

Japanese Guest: Oh, yes. It is three times. How many? One time? Pray for this? Pray for this?

Prabhupāda: (aside) There is water or not?

Japanese Guest: And these beads, beads, how many?

Amogha: (aside) Shall I explain? This means that I have a spiritual master.

Japanese Guest: Spiritual master.

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda is my spiritual master.

Japanese Guest: From master. Given by master to you.

Amogha: That's right.

Japanese Guest: So after at least one year later according some occupational training and devotions and can initiated, initiate. Not now.

Amogha: There's . . . no. There's first initiation and second initiation. First initiation means that you are able to chant sixteen rounds and follow those four rules.

Japanese Guest: Hmm. Yes. Cardinal sins.

Amogha: Like that. After six months' following, then you get first initiation. After one more year, then you get this thread if you . . .

Japanese Guest: Oh, yes.

Amogha: This is after one year. First initiation is after six months.

Japanese Guest: And this later . . .

Amogha: After one year.

Japanese Guest: . . . like a special prize. This by invitation of our master. But this is essential, and this initiation have . . . (indistinct) . . . after novitiate.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . I'll go and take rest.

Amogha: Okay.

Prabhupāda: So he'll explain. I'm going to take rest.

Japanese Guest: Okay

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

(pause) (Śrīla Prabhupāda leaves)

Japanese Guest: And keep vegetarian. No meat, no . . . (indistinct) . . . and gambling.

Amogha: Gambling. Four things: no meat, fish or eggs. No meat, fish or eggs. We only eat food which is first offered to Kṛṣṇa.

Japanese Guest: Milk can . . .

Amogha: Milk, vegetables, grains, things like that. We offer first to Kṛṣṇa. And no gambling. No illicit sex life. And no intoxication—cigarettes, coffee, tea, alcohol, all these things.

Japanese Guest: This is like yogī. And they can do . . . (indistinct) . . . physical situation without coffee. But like some also drank and . . .

Amogha: We don't drink tea, coffee, or cigarettes.

Japanese Guest: But you can do. Not drink. But if needed some exercisement or . . .

Amogha: We don't do it.

Japanese Guest: Not to you.

Amogha: No . . .

Japanese Guest: Or some yoga āsana, can do like that, without the drug response.

Amogha: That's for drugs or stimulation. Coffee, caffeine. But we don't use it, because we get energy from Kṛṣṇa. We don't use any intoxication.

Japanese Guest: Intoxication small . . . (indistinct) . . . is allowed, but . . . (indistinct) . . . is only vegetable oil.

Amogha: Vegetable oil, yes. Ghee also.

Japanese Guest: Ghee. Ah yes . . . (indistinct) . . . ghee also.

Amogha: From cows. It's from cows. So if you do these things, and come often to see us, we can discuss Bhagavad-gītā.

Japanese Guest: Yes. If I . . . (indistinct) . . . translations, yes, and even some Sanskrit . . . (indistinct) . . . by word by word. And Devanagari I studied already. Fifty years ago I studied some Sanskrit, a little Veda or . . . (indistinct) . . . yesterday I spoke with . . . (end)