751028 - Lecture BG 07.02 - Nairobi

Lectures by Date, 1975

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Lecture

751028BG-NAIROBI - October 28, 1975 - 59:27 Minutes

Prabhupāda:

jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam

idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ

yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj

jñātavyam avaśiṣyate

(BG 7.2)

Jñānam, knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that, "I am giving you perfect knowledge." This is our process. We receive knowledge from the perfect person. There is no use getting knowledge from imperfect person. That is useless waste of time. And who is perfect person? Who does not commit any mistake, who is never illusioned, whose senses are not imperfect and who is not a cheater. These are the qualification. (children making noise) (aside) The children . . . these are the symptoms of perfect person. First thing is he does not commit mistake. Throughout the whole world you study big, big men, they committed mistake. Hitler committed mistake. Gandhi committed mistake. Churchill committed mistake. Because "To err is human." However big you may be, you cannot avoid mistake, because you are not liberated.

So these are the signs of becoming perfect man: that he does not commit mistake, neither he is illusioned. Illusion means to accept something as something. That is illusion. Just like we are accepting this body as myself. If you ask me, "What you are?" "I am Indian. I am brāhmaṇa. I am this. I am that." So what are these? These are all bodily concept of life. This is illusion. Illusion means I am not this body. You have got experience when a man dies, his relatives and children cry, "My father is gone." But actually the father . . . the sons who knew the body of the father as the father, that was illusion. Now, after death he is coming to understand that, "My father is gone." Why your father is gone? It is lying there. The same hand, legs, heads, coat, pant, everything is lying there. Why do you say that your father has gone away? That means the real father he has never seen. He has seen the illusion of his father. This is called illusion. Is there any doubt? I am seeing you. What I am seeing, you? I am seeing your body, your shirt, coat, pant. That's all.

But as Kṛṣṇa said, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13), within this body the real person is there, just like within the shirt and coat the real person is there. So . . . but the real person we never see. We see the shirt, coat, pant, and we take the shirt, coat, pant as this man. This is called illusion, to accept something for something else. The son did not know who is father. He is going on, calling the shirt, coat, pant of the father as "father." This is called illusion. To commit mistake and to become illusioned, and even if we try to become perfect, our senses are imperfect. Just like we are very much proud of our eyes. Somebody, they say: "Can you show me God?" Now, how you will see? "Now, with my eyes." But your eyes are imperfect. That he will not admit. He forgets that, "So long the light is there, I can see. My pride for possessing the eyes is valid so long the light is there. As soon as there is no light, in spite of possessing the eyes, I cannot see." So you can see under certain condition. If there is sunlight, then you can see. If there is no sunlight, you cannot see. So what is the value of your seeing? Imperfect eyes.

So similarly, our eyes are imperfect, our all senses are imperfect. We gather knowledge by the senses—five knowledge-gathering senses and five working senses and mind. So if the senses are imperfect, then how can I gather real knowledge? And without getting real knowledge, if I preach, that is cheating. If you have no knowledge, then . . . just like so many scientists, philosophers, they are cheating. Actually they have no knowledge that life cannot be produced by chemical combination; still, they are cheating people throughout the whole world that life can be produced by chemical combination. And this cheating is accepted.

So there are so many other things. They are claiming they have gone to moon planet, this, that. But according to śāstra, they are all cheaters. All cheaters. They cannot go. It is not so easy thing. Just like to enter your African city, African country, there are so many rules and regulations, immigration. And you want to go to the Candraloka without any restriction. Just see. Candraloka is the planet of the demigods. There the people live for ten thousands of years, they are so advanced. Their comforts are many thousands better than this standard of comfort. And you want to go there without any passport and without any visa. From common sense, can you enter anyone's country simply because you have got aeroplane? But these things are going on.

So to accept knowledge from these rascals who commit mistake, who are illusioned, who are cheater, whose senses are imperfect, is useless waste of time. This is the śāstric injunction. We should receive knowledge from the perfect. So in all respect, who can become the perfect than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Vedavyāsa, by Nārada, by Arjuna, big, big stalwart scholars and personalities, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Just like this Bhagavad-gītā. This Bhagavad-gītā is recorded by Vyāsadeva. The talks were between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna, and it was recorded by Vyāsadeva's disciple, Sañjaya. And Vyāsadeva, while writing Mahābhārata, he put this dialogue within the Mahābhārata. So why Vyāsadeva put this conversation between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna in his authoritative book, Mahābhārata? Mahābhārata means "Greater India." Bhārata means Bhārata-varṣa. This planet was being called Bhārata-varṣa. So Mahābhārata: the history of the whole planet. So Vyāsadeva giving the history. Mahābhārata is also Vedic literature. Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa, the eighteen Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra, four Vedas, and then Upaniṣad, they're all Vedic literature. So Mahābhārata is authorized Vedic literature, and within the Mahābhārata this Bhagavad-gītā is there. Therefore it is Vedic literature. So unless it is authorized perfect knowledge, why Vyāsadeva should put in his Mahābhārata? Therefore it is perfect knowledge. Because it is spoken by the most perfect personality, Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of mistake, there is no question of illusion.

You can attain this also, state of life, liberated life. We have heard so many times, "liberation," or "mukti." Mukti means one who has no defects as mentioned. That is mukti. Mukti does not mean one thinks himself that, "I have become Bhagavān. I have become now . . ." Vimukta-māninaḥ. They have been called as rascals, wrongly thinking that they are vimukta. Vimukta. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. There are so many rascals, they are thinking that they have become mukta, liberated Nārāyaṇas. They're thinking like that. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. So why they are . . .? Now, if they have become liberated, so advanced, and feeling that they have become Nārāyaṇa, so what is the objection? The objection is, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvāt (SB 10.2.32). They do not know what is Nārāyaṇa, these rascals. Śaṅkarācārya admits, nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt, "Nārāyaṇa is not a being within this material world." That is Nārāyaṇa. And they have become Nārāyaṇa, namo nārāyaṇāya. Nārāyaṇa is so cheap thing? Therefore śāstra says, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. These rascals, they are thinking they have become Nārāyaṇa, but they do not know what is Nārāyaṇa. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Why they do not under . . .? Tvayy asta-bhāvāt. They never tried to understand what is really God. They thought, "God is very cheap thing. Everyone can become God." So therefore they have been called vimukta-māninaḥ.

Real mukti is described in the Bhāgavata. Mukti means muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). When one is cured of his madness and he is situated in healthy state, that is called mukti. So here in this material world everyone is mad. Somebody is thinking, "I am king." Somebody is thinking, "I am minister." Somebody is thinking, "I am president," "I am this," "I am Nārāyaṇa," so on, so on, so on, all madmen, all madmen, because it will be finished. His so-called conception of becoming this and that will be finished within few years. But he is eternal. He is thinking the temporary situation of becoming an American, Indian, or minister or president or this or that, how long it will stay? It will stay, say, ten or fifteen or fifty or hundred years, that's all. But he is not for hundred years. He—nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). But the rascal does not know. He is thinking, "By chance, I have become minister or president or this or that. For some years this is my position." Dehātma-buddhiḥ. So that is the difference between mukti, mukta and bandha, bondage and liberation.

So liberation means to be situated in his own real position. That is called liberation so what is our position? If we become little sober, if we become little sober, then we can understand what is my position. So that is called meditation, or dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). (aside) What is that? Closing?

Brahmānanda: The people are coming in and out of the door here. If we close the door, then it's disturbing . . .

Prabhupāda: Out of the door?

Brahmānanda: The front door is just here.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You can keep it open. Come here. There is so much place. Let them go. But children may not go. So just try to understand that I am thinking, "I am such big man," "I am minister," "I am president," "I am this," "I am Nārāyaṇa," up to the last stage, "I am Nārāyaṇa." But if we soberly think that, "If I am Nārāyaṇa, then I must be the controller. I must be controller of everything. But why I am controlled by the toothache? As soon as there is some pain in the tooth, I voluntarily go to a dentist to be controlled by him. Then how I become Nārāyaṇa?" In this way, if one studies his life, whole, that, he'll find it that he's fully controlled by something more. Fully controlled. And that control is of the material nature. Who can say that he is not controlled by the material nature? That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Material nature will oblige you. You are very nice, good-looking young man. Material nature will not allow you to remain as very good-looking young man. You must become old man. Your teeth must fall down, your hairs must grow gray, and you'll look ugly. Why? But he does not think. This is called ignorance, ajñāna.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2): "I'll speak to you about jñāna." Everyone is in ajñāna and falsely thinking that he is some very important person. This is ajñāna. Real jñāna, as will be explained here, is to receive from Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. He'll speak in later chapters that, "The real jñāna is to surrender unto Me." This is real jñāna. Kṛṣṇa will say in the Eighth Chapter, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19): "After many, many births." So we are . . . today I may be minister, and tomorrow, after death, I may become a dog. But that is not in my control. You cannot say that, "I am minister. I am this. I am that. I am high-court judge or very important man. So I am ordering material nature. Although I shall die, next life I shall become again high-court judge or Nārāyaṇa, something." No. That is not possible. You are fully under control. You have given a license to enjoy or suffer in this body, and in this body, as soon as it is finished, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur . . . (SB 3.31.1), and then you'll get another body.

So this jñāna, even this jñāna, that change of body is not there. Throughout the whole world, big, big professor, big, big educationist, they do not believe in the next birth—99.9%, they do not. But this is a fact. There is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Kṛṣṇa says. And we understand this also. Kṛṣṇa gives this example: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This child is becoming kumāra; a kumāra is becoming boy, boy is becoming young man; young man is becoming old man. So these changes are going on—still, he does not know that, "After this old body is finished, I shall have to accept another body." So this is ignorance. Therefore we have to take knowledge from the most perfect Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. This is real knowledge.

So jñānaṁ te ahaṁ sa-vijñānam. Sa-vijñānam means with practical application. As there is theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge in scientific advancement, so simply theoretical knowledge will not help me. Theoretically I may know that I am not this body, but practically it must be known. If not, if I am not this body, then I am soul. Then I am working here in this world only for my body. What I am doing about my soul? That is knowledge. Suppose I have got this coat and pant and hat. If he simply tries . . . dry clean the coat and do not put any food in the stomach, how long this civilization will go on? Starving. So the whole world is in disturbed condition because there is no spiritual food, only material cleansing the shirt and coat. That is going on. Like cats and dogs, they are interested with the body.

So sa-vijñānam . . . actually we must know what we are and what is my real business. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You should carefully note it, that when I understand that I am not this material body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I am spirit soul, I am Brahman . . . Kṛṣṇa is Para-brahman, and we are Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. We are also Brahman. Not that by knowledge I become Brahman. I am already Brahman. By ignorance I am thinking not Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. I am spirit." That is my actual position. And when you understand your actual position and act accordingly, that is called mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). When you understand that we are not this body . . . we are working whole day and night like cats and dogs, the hogs. The hog is also working day and night. Hog, what is his business? "Where is stool?" That's all. "Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he gets stool, he eats it, become fatty, because stool contains all the vitamins. That is the essence of all good food that you take, and the essence is rejected. But it is scientifically true—perhaps doctor will admit—stool contains all hypophosphates. Is it not? Then who is going to eat stool? Hypophosphates is very good for brain, but now eat. Therefore these hogs very easily become fat. You see? So does it mean that we shall work very hard where to find out where is stool and then become fat and somebody will eat me? This is not civilization.

Civilization is that you must know what is your real position and act accordingly, and then you become liberated, sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. That is perfection of your life. Don't be misled by the bodily concept of life. That is condemned. The whole Vedic civilization is based on this point.

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

Anyone who is acting on the bodily concept of life, sa eva go-kharaḥ, they are no better than the cats and dogs. So that is going on all over the world. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am African," "I am this"—bodily, all bodily. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am black," "I am white," "I am fat," "I am thin." That's all.

So that jñānam, theoretical, and vijñānam, sa-vijñānaṁ vakṣyāmi, Kṛṣṇa will teach, "Take this jñānam." The most perfect personality. So this is our business. But do we . . .? We don't care for Kṛṣṇa. We do not know Kṛṣṇa, and what to speak of taking knowledge from Him. The knowledge is there, but we are so fool that we do not take knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. We manufacture our own knowledge. This is called māyā. Māyā is so strong that she'll not allow to take real knowledge from the real person, but we shall read volumes of books who are defective with their four kinds of imperfectness, namely they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they are cheater and their senses are imperfect.

So this is the first business that, "Where we shall take knowledge?" Tad-vijñānārtham. Vedic lesson is that tad-vijñānārthaṁ gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12): "You should go to guru." Just like Arjuna has accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. When Arjuna was puzzled, he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7): "I am kṣatriya. It is my duty to fight, but I am declining. Although You are requesting me to fight, still I am declining. So I am puzzled. Anyway, I can understand You can drive away my . . . this puzzling position. Therefore I am becoming Your śiṣya." Śiṣyas te 'ham. "I become Your disciple. I am not going to argue with You on equal footing." Śiṣya means he is always subordinate. Whatever the guru will say, he will accept. That is the guru and śiṣya. So Kṛṣṇa became guru and Arjuna became a śiṣya, disciple, not friend. Of course, he knew what is Kṛṣṇa, that śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam. So similarly, we have to find out guru for perfect instruction. That is the only way. Otherwise we shall keep ourself in ignorance, in mistake, in illusion, in imperfectness and so many other things.

So this is the injunction of the Vedas that, "If you want real knowledge, you must go to guru." "Now, there are so many gurus. So whom shall I . . .? Where shall I go?" No. You shall go to a guru—samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). You shall go to a guru who is brahma-niṣṭham, a great devotee. He is guru, not a so-called guru, gold-making guru. (laughter) Then another cheater. You see? So the Vedic injunction is brahma-niṣṭham. That is guru: one who has full knowledge in Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So here also in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find who is guru. Tattva-darśinaḥ. Tad-vijñāna . . . tattva-darśinaḥ, one who has seen the truth. Never says this magic player. No. Tattva-darśinaḥ. This is the greatest magic, brahma-niṣṭham. That is the greatest magic, how to become fixed up in Brahman. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. As soon as you become brahma-niṣṭham, fixed up in Brahman, then all your miserable condition finished. Prasannātmā. That is the sign. Everyone is trying to be very happy. So that you can be by brahma-niṣṭham, by understanding that you are Brahman.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

These are the preliminary stages to enter into the kingdom of devotional . . . mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. After being . . . after going through this process—brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu—then you come to the transcendental platform, and that is the business of brahma-bhūtaḥ stage.

So jñānam means to understand oneself and practically, samānaṁ vijñānam, sa-vijñānam, with vijñāna, practical application. Idaṁ vakṣyāmi, and Kṛṣṇa is saying. He is not ordinary human being. As soon as we think of Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being we become more rascal. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11): "Because I am speaking this Bhagavad-gītā, the ultimate knowledge, these rascals sometimes think of Me as I am ordinary human being." And therefore they interpret in their own way, "What Kṛṣṇa has said, the meaning is like this," as if Kṛṣṇa left the whole book to be interpreted by another rascal. No. You cannot interpret. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any interpretation. So if we take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and everything is there clear—don't interpret like fools and rascals—then you'll get real knowledge. Jñānam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2). Practical. Vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ. So we must have understood that . . . this is another meaning, that tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12).

So Kṛṣṇa is showing practically by accepting His friend, very dear friend, as His disciple. That means He is showing who is guru. Guru is Kṛṣṇa, and one who understands Kṛṣṇa, that is guru. Don't accept these rascals and fools as guru, who denies Kṛṣṇa. He is not guru; he is cheater. Kṛṣṇa is showing, and Arjuna is accepting, śiṣyas te 'ham (BG 2.7): "I become Your śiṣya." That means Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. And one who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. That is guru. This is the test, whether he is aware of Kṛṣṇa. Then he is guru. Otherwise he's not guru. First of all you understand that. So that is mahātmā. Kṛṣṇa has said, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is mahātmā. Who mahātmā?

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

'jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

"After many, many births of cats and dogs and trees and this and that," so many, eight million, "when one comes to this knowledge," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), "Kṛṣṇa is everything," sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, "he is guru."

So guru means . . . Vedic injunction is you must go to a guru. Now, it may be difficult, who is guru. That is also Kṛṣṇa showing, "I am guru." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7): "There is no more any better person than Me." And He has proved it. He has proved it. Kṛṣṇa, so long He was on this platform, on this earthly planet, He proved that He was the greatest personality, greatest persona . . . read history and you will see. He proved Himself from His childhood. When He was three months . . . He is neither old nor. . . but He was playing just like human child on the lap of Mother Yaśodā. The Pūtanā came to kill Him. So that child . . . you will read all this from Bhāgavatam, how He killed that big Pūtanā; when He was seven years old how He lifted Govardhana Hill. So although He was playing just like ordinary human child, human boy or hu . . . but sometimes He was showing His almightiness. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is God.

So jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam idaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ, and yaj jñātvā (BG 7.2). If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa or knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, yaj jñātvā. Yaj jñātvā neha. Na iha: "In this material." Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj, "You will have nothing to learn." Because he understands, vāsudevaḥ sarvam idam, "Everything is Vāsudeva." So Vāsudeva will give him all knowledge about science, about politics, about philosophy, about astrology, astronomy. Everything will come out. You haven't got to go to some other expert in some particular type of knowledge. But if a devotee, Kṛṣṇa devotee . . . he knows everything, all department of knowledge. Just like we are challenging that, "You cannot make any life by combination of chemicals." Why? Because we know from Kṛṣṇa what is what. Therefore we can challenge. We are not fools. We are challenging that, "If you can prepare one egg only . . ." It is very easy. You can take any egg and analyze what are the chemicals. Then bring that chemical, put together and give it to the incubator and produce a chicken. Then I shall know that chemical combination can produce life. Eh? What is your opinion, doctor?

Doctor: They are trying . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh? Is there any chemist here?

Doctor: A Mr. Philip was here. Mr. Philip . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: They're simply cheating. Simply cheating. It is not possible. But we know that life cannot be produced by any chemical combination because we understand from Bhagavad-gītā that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). The jīva, the living entities, is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So how it can be prepared by chemical composition? It is not possible. There are so many things. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says that, "If you study knowledge which I am giving to you," yaj jñātvā, "perfectly, then," na iha bhūyaḥ anyaj jñānam, anya, "other department of knowledge will be manifest automatically. You'll know everything." This is the secret. Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate. You haven't got to learn departmentally anything else. Just see. This is the benefit. This is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you haven't got to work hard to understand other department of knowledge. You simply try to take this knowledge and you'll be perfect. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. Jaya Gurudeva. (break)

Prabhupāda: Any question?

Brahmānanda: Are there any questions?

Indian lady: Prabhupad ji Yahan bahut si aise baitthe hain jo kehti hain ki humko guru dharan karna hai, guru dharan karne ke liye kya hona chahiye, hume bataiye vo . . . pehena chahti hai. (Respected Prabhupāda, there are many ladies sitting here who are saying that they want to become teachers. For becoming a teacher, what qualification should one have? Please tell us, they want to hear . . .)

Prabhupāda: Guru dharan ke liye to pehle submission hone chahiye. guruji hum moorkh hain humko aap grahan kijiye jaisa Arjun bola tha. (For becoming a spiritual teacher you first must have submission, "Oh master I am a fool, please accept me." Like how Arjuna said.) . . . śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7): "I have surrendered to You. You give me knowledge." That's all.

Indian man (1): When did you began to become the spiritual leader of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Brahmānanda: He's asking when did you become the spiritual leader of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: When my Guru Mahārāja ordered me. This is the guru-paramparā.

Indian man (1): Did he just . . .

Prabhupāda: Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can become guru when he's ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise nobody can become guru.

Indian lady: Guru dharan karne ke liye ye. (For becoming a guru, master . . .)

Prabhupāda: Pehle guru to smajho tab guru dharan samjhega. Jaise niyam hai guru jo bolega usko sunana padega. (First you understand master, then you understand becoming a master. What the rules are. Whatever the master says, you have to listen . . .) Śādhi māṁ prapannam. "I am surrendered to You. Whatever You say, I shall carry out." That's all.

Indian man (1): When did he tell you to . . .?

Prabhupāda: What is the business, when did he tell me? And why shall I disclose to you? It is so very insignificant thing that I have to explain to you?

Indian man (1): No, I am just curious to know when.

Prabhupāda: You should be curious within your limit. You should know that one can become guru when he is ordered by his guru. This much.

Jñāna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we think about our spiritual master, is that as good as thinking about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Brahmānanda: If we think about our spiritual master, is that as good as thinking of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because it is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ, "If you can please your guru, then you please Kṛṣṇa." So if you make always this plan, "How to please my guru," then you'll please Kṛṣṇa. What is that?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that if one thinks in the time of death, if he thinks of Kṛṣṇa, he goes to Kṛṣṇa. What if one thinks of his spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: He will go to Kṛṣṇa, because spiritual master is also going to Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) Now these questions should be on the subject matter which we have discussed. Don't bring outside question. Then there . . . it will be no end. This is not the process. When we invite question—on the subject matter which we have spoken. Anyway, any other question?

Indian man (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Back to Godhead, on page five, it is said that Śrī Vallabhācāryajī, a devotee to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, wrote commentary on Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected his commentary, and then He said that He is not prepared to listen to his commentary, and He(?) gives certain other comments.

Prabhupāda: Not certain other comment. The Vallabhācārya, he brought his Subodhinī-ṭīkā, and he was great admirer of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he said that "I have written one commentary which is far better than the comments given by Śrīdhara Svāmī." So that was disapproved by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. If you disapprove previous ācārya or if you become more intelligent than previous ācārya, then you are not ācārya. This is . . . this was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . . He disapproved. Our process is evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We cannot disregard. Śrīdhara is the original commentator of Bhāgavatam. If you say that, "I am better than Śrīdhara Svāmī," then you immediately become rejected. If I say . . . just like there are some people, they create some avatāra, and they say: "This avatāra is better than Kṛṣṇa"—immediately rejected. Immediately. He must know his value. This was . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu said svāmī, Śrīdhara Svāmī. So He also sarcastically remarked, svāmī yei vā nāhi māne veśyāra bole guni. Svāmī means husband also. So if some woman says that, "I don't care for my husband," Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Then he's a pros . . . she's a prostitute." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You cannot disregard svāmī. Not that . . . they were very friendly, so you can take it as friendly, jokingly that, "You are so proud that you are disregarding Śrīdhara Svāmī. Then you are no better than prostitute."

Guest (3): (indistinct) . . . understand from the Vedas than Kṛṣṇa is not limited. This is characterized by the way He used to keep the . . . (indistinct) . . . used to dance with the gopīs. So if this was possible, why did Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . .?

Prabhupāda: What is that? He is talking too much. Hmm?

Brahmānanda: He says that from the Vedas we know that Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, especially when He was performing His rāsa-līlā with the gopīs. So, but if Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, why did He not . . .?

Guest (3): . . . manifest Himself all over the world so that all living entities would have equal chances to go back home?

Brahmānanda: Why did He not manifest Himself all over the world so that all living entities could have equal chance . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yes, He manifested all over the world, but you have no eyes to see Him. That is your defect. Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere. But just like sun is present in the sky, why don't you see now? Huh? Answer this. Do you think the sun is not in the sky? Do you think that sun is not there? So go on the roof and see the sun. (laughter) Why you prove yourself a rascal, that "No, no, there is no sun"? Will it be accepted by learned men? Because you cannot see the sun, there is no sun? Will it be accepted by any learned scholar? At night you cannot see the sun, so if you say to any learned man, any, who knows things, "No, no, there is no sun," so will he accept that? He will say that, "Sun is there. You rascal, you cannot see." That's all. "You just get out of your rascaldom. Then you'll see." Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25), Kṛṣṇa said. He is not exposed to the rascals, but one who knows, he is seeing.

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa . . .

(Bs. 5.38)

The devotees always see Kṛṣṇa. For him, He is always present. And for the rascals, He cannot be seen. That is the difference.

So you have to become nonrascal, then you will see. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). In everyone's core of the heart Kṛṣṇa is present. But do you know that? Can you see? Can you talk with Him? He is within your heart, He is present. But He talks with whom? Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam (BG 10.10). He talks with the devotee who is twenty four hours engaged in His service. These are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Don't you read Bhagavad-gītā? So everything requires qualification. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to make the people qualified to see Kṛṣṇa. Without being qualified, how can you see? That requires qualification.

Indian man (4): Swāmījī, the Lord Kṛṣṇa is showing viśva-svarūpa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (4): So can you show me something about that viśva-svarūpa?

Prabhupāda: You ask me? So am I Kṛṣṇa? (laughter) Why you are asking foolishly? That means you do not know Kṛṣṇa. You are thinking me as Kṛṣṇa. That you are foolish man.

Indian man (4): No, I am not calling you are Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are asking to show viśva-rūpa?

Indian man (4): Viśva-svarūpa, because Kṛṣṇa . . .

Prabhupāda: Viśva-svarūpa will be shown by Kṛṣṇa, not by not-Kṛṣṇa. I am not Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (4): No, I am not saying you are Kṛṣṇa. But you have said you are something about the . . .

Prabhupāda: I am Kṛṣṇa's servant. What Kṛṣṇa says, I am carrying. That's all. That is my position. I am peon. When the peon delivers one thousand rupees or shillings to you, it is not his money. The money is paid by somebody, but I honestly deliver to you. That's all.

Indian man (4): But Kṛṣṇa has not given you power as guru?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Indian man (4): So you can show?

Prabhupāda: So I am not so powerful that I can show the viśva-rūpa. He has given me this power that, "You go and speak to the foolish rascals that I am Bhagavān," (laughter) that much power. Yes. That is my power. I can say to you that, "Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān." That's all. I never become equal to Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, why do most people in this Kali-yuga worship Lord Śiva instead of worship Lord Kṛṣṇa? Because Kṛṣṇa known as God . . .

Prabhupāda: Because they can get immediate money from Śiva. That is the reason. Lord Śiva is the proprietor, or the supreme person within this material world, and he is āśutoṣa, very easily pleased. Therefore materialistic person go to him for some material benefit, and he gives. That's all.

Indian man (6): But Lord Śiva is the greatest Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is Vaiṣṇava. He is the greatest Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ. Unless he is Vaiṣṇava, how he gets this power? The power comes from the original person. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). So unless one is Vaiṣṇava, he has no power. All right.

Indian man (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda . . .

Prabhupāda: You have questioned once, not twice.

Jñāna: Śrīla Prabhupāda . . .

Prabhupāda: You have already done question.

Indian man (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda . . .

Prabhupāda: You have also done. Don't take all the time. Let others say.

Indian man (7): Yes. At the time of Caitanya Mahāprabhu was accepting sannyāsa order, He refused to take the name of . . . He was being given by his guru, and He accepted to keep Kṛṣṇa Caitanya as His name, which was a brahmacārī name. Why was that so?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?

Brahmānanda: When Caitanya Mahāprabhu took sannyāsa, His guru offered Him one name, but He refused and preferred to keep the name Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, which is a brahmacārī name. Why was this?

Prabhupāda: Because He took sannyāsa from a Māyāvādī sannyāsī, and Māyāvādī sannyāsī, they think of themselves that they have become Nārāyaṇa. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused to accept that theory, that He is Nārāyaṇa. He preferred to remain a brahmacārī than to become a false sannyāsī and claim to become Nārāyaṇa.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Indian man (8): Prabhupāda, when we do our chanting, the chanting beads contain 108 beads. Why is this, and why do we chant sixteen rounds?

Prabhupāda: Not sixteen rounds. You can chant unlimitedly.

Indian man (8): No, minimum

Prabhupāda: Minimum means because they cannot chant more than that, therefore minimum. Otherwise, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). So you must have a fixed amount of kīrtana. That is called tapasya that, "We must finish at least this much, if not more." Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ (Ṣaḍ-gosvāmy-aṣṭaka 6). Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka. By numerical strength one should chant. That is called vow. This is the idea. So these Europeans, Americans, they cannot imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who was chanting 300,000 times. So we do not advise to imitate. Really do something. One name is sufficient. If you can chant one name only, that is sufficient. But that is not possible. So to understand the value of name, at least we must have some numerical strength. All the Gosvāmīs used to do that. We follow their footprints.

Thank you. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya . . . (end)