770120 - Conversation A - Bhuvanesvara

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770120R1-BHUVANESVARA - January 20, 1977 - 46:47 Minutes

(someone preaching in temple in Oriya over loudspeaker in background)

Prabhupāda: . . . neither they do not know how life becomes possible. They may go on "Bhag, bhag," but these two things are absent. You are all scientists? No. You do not know how life becomes possible. They simply theorize in so many ways, but they cannot give us any positive information.

Indian man: Ki kore mone bisvas ke drirah kara yay, tini achen? (How can I keep firm faith that God exists?) . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Khali buddhita bhalo holei hobe. Buddhi bhrasta hole hobe na. Ektu khani manuser maton cinta korte hobe. Taholei hobe. Ei ye sob jinis sastre royeche, eta bisvas dvara yodi koren, ki karon ta ki? Ekjan karta ache to? Sob jiniseri karta ache, ye ekta jinis ei gulo tairi koreche. Table ta ei ye tairi koreche, to ei samasta bisva brahmanda ke tairi koreche? Ekjan koreche to? Eta ki kore na bolben? Ki karon? Balun. (He only has to be intelligent. Not if the intellect is corrupted. He needs to think like a human being, then it is possible. If you believe all this that is given in the sastra, what is the difficulty? There must be a creator right? Everything has their creator, who is creating these? One has created this table, so who has created this world? Someone has created this right? How will you deny it? What is the reason? Tell me.)

Indian man: Asvikar korar upay nei. (There is no way to deny it.)

Prabhupāda: Tobe! Svikar korlei holo, buddhita yodi thik thake svikar korte hobe. Buddhi bhrasta hole hobe na. Yes sob murkhara bolche, apna apni hoye gelo, murkha kon jinista apna apni hoyeche? Murkha. Maha murkha. Maha murkher katha nile to colbe na. Apna apni hoye gelo, ta apna apni konta hocche? (Then you just believe this, if your intelligence is good, then you have to admit it. All foolish people are saying that it has manifested itself. A great fool, tell me which thing can manifest by itself? Fool. Great fool. It's not good to follow them. If has been created by itself, what is creating itself?)

Indian man: . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Amader deshe te eto sastra royeche, eto jnan royeche, Veda, Vedanta, Purana, Bhagavad-gita samsta deshe adar hocche, sei sob chere diye ekta bokar maton bole dile sob . . . (indistinct) . . . ta ei boka der katha nile ki hobe? Prathamei mon take sthir korte hobe ye, boka der katha neoa hobe na. Taholei hobe. Yara bolche apna apni hoye yacche sob tara boka kina? Tahole sei boka der katha niye ki hobe? Eta yodi amader isthir siddhanta thake ye bokar katha sona hobe na, taholei hobe. Sob kathai royeche sastre 'sambhavan Kṛṣṇa' esob bolche. Ki? Bisay ta ki? Tarpore tar sob representative ra bolche, baro baro sob rsi ra Vyasa-deva, Narad, Asit tarpore amader acaryara, Ramanujacarya, Madhyacarya, Sankaracarya itattadi, tarpor recently Caitanya Mahaprabhu, sob bolchen se tader katha chere diye kato guno boka loker katha sune amar labh ki hobe? Eita ki bicar? Tader katha sono thik hoye yabe. Ar boka loker katha sune yodi boka thaki, tahole r hobe na. Ta duniya to ekhon boka lok bhore geche. Mane tara sob sadhu, sanyasi, gurur nam diye calacche kintu ek number boka. Kicchu jane na. Ami ek ektike nin, proman kore deoa hobe he is a boka number one. Yake dekho, oi scholars, oi sadhu, oi sanyasi, oi politician ityadi. Sob boka lok. Keno boka? Ek ektike dharun, tarpor bujhiye debo ye eibhabe. Kake neben nin. Dekhun bokader analysis ta. Sei janye amra ek bolechi seta hocche thik jnan Bhagavad-gita As It Is, bhagavan yeta boleche bas seta. Seta follow hocche. Dekhun sob baro baro scholar ra sob svikar korche. Samasta duniyate ei movement ti svikar korche. (Our country has got so many sastras and this much knowledge like Veda, Vedanta, Purana, Bhagavad-gītā. These are all adored in all countries, and leaving all these if someone talks like a fool . . . (indistinct) . . . if you follow these words of fools then what will happen? At first you have to decide to not take the ideas of fools, then this is good. Those who are saying that everything is going on automatically, are they not fools? Then why should I follow those fools? If we make up our mind not to take the ideas of fools, only then it's possible. Everything is there in sastra—sambhavan. Kṛṣṇa says this in the sastra. What is the matter? Then all his representatives are saying, all the great sages like Vyasadeva, Narada, Asita and our acaryas like Ramanujacarya, Madhyacarya, Sankaracarya all are saying this, and recently Caitanya Mahaprabhu is also saying this. So if we don't listen to them and listen to the fools, then what will be the benefit? Is this the real understanding? Just listen to the authorities then everything will be fine. And if I listen to the fool and remain a fool, then nothing will happen. But the world is now full of fools, which means they are calling themselves sadhu, sannyāsī, guru . . . but they are great fools. They know nothing. You just bring each of them and it will be proven that they are fool number one. Whoever you see . . . that scholar, that sadhu, that sannyasi, that politician etc.—everyone is a fool. Why are they fools? Bring each of them, then I will prove that it is this way. Take each and everyone. Just see the analysis of the fools. That's why we said that real knowledge is present in the Bhagavad-gītā which is spoken by the Lord himself, that's it. That we should follow. See the great scholars are agreeing. People from all over the world are joining this movement.) And

Indian man: Kṛṣṇa ke ki rup niye cinta korte hobe? (Which form of Kṛṣṇa do we have to meditate on?)

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa deke ese canvas korche, (Kṛṣṇa is calling and saying,) Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhava (BG 10.8). Eto apnar mathay dukchena. Kṛṣṇa sayam bolche ami sob tairi korechi. (You are unable to understand this. Kṛṣṇa himself is saying that I have created all these.) Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhava (BG 10.8). Ta abar ei katha jijnes korchen tarmen Bhagavad-gita paren na? (Still you're asking this, so don't you read Bhagavad-gītā?)

Indian man: Ektu adhtu. (A little bit.)

Prabhupāda: Ektu adhtu! Ar ektu bhalo kore porun. Eito uttar royeche. Keu ache ekjan jini eisob tairi korechen. Tini bolchen, (A little bit? Then read more carefully. Here is the answer. Someone is there who has created this. He is saying,) Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhava (BG 10.8). Seta or ye Bhagavad-gita sunle, se Arjun svikar korlo. Vyasa-deva svikar korche, Narad svikar korche, baro baro acarya svikar korche . . . apni keno sangyata royechen? (Arujuna after listening to Bhagavad-gītā he agreed. Vyasadeva, Narada and all the great acaryas have agreed with this . . . then why are you still not agreeing?) Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Mahajan ra ye samsta rastay yay seta amra grahan korbo, ta apni eta grahan korchen na keno? Ki karon? Apni tader ceye bidyan na buddhiman? Tara baro baro acaryara sob svikar koreche tader katha ta apni nicchen na. Tahole apni ki tader ceyeo bidyan? (Whatever our Mahajanas will do we'll follow the same, so why are you not accepting this? What is the reason? Are you more scholarly or intelligent than them? They are all great acaryas and they are accepting it but you are not accepting what they are saying. Then are you more intelligent than them?)

Indian man: Na thik ta noy. (No, not like that.)

Prabhupāda: Tobe nicchen na keno? (Then why are you not taking it?)

Indian man: Ami indrya diye take thik . . . (I don't have the senses . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ete indrya to na . . . apnar to indryacita . . . sei janye to . . . (It has nothing to do with the senses . . . you can feel with the senses . . . that's why,) Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Ekta choto chele se kichu janena baba ya bole dilen, 'baba eita karo kaj' tar kaj hocche. Yakhan baba bole dicchen ye, dekho tumi eibhabe karo kaj ta thik hobe, seta se nicchena keno? Indryatit to botei, kintu ye bujheche se to bole dicche tumi ei bhabe karo, seta nicche na keno? Icche kore boka thakben keno? Seita hocche katha. Sob acarya ra svikar korche. Baro baro acarya yara amader Bharatiya srsti raksha koreche (A child who knows nothing, if his father says: "Dear son, do this" then he does it. When his father is giving him instruction to do like this, so why is he not listening? Although this is beyond the senses, but who understands this if he is saying it, then why is he not accepting? Why will you remain a fool voluntarily? This is the fact. All acaryas have accepted this. Great acaryas have saved the creation of India.) acarya . . . (sanskrit sloka) . . . acarya der path amader anusaran korte hobe. Yara sob sikshita ache, ar sabceye baro acarya to Kṛṣṇa, (We have to follow in the footstep of the acaryas. Those who are educated, and the greatest acarya is Kṛṣṇa,) 'acarya mam . . . (sanskrita sloka)'. Acarya ye Kṛṣṇa ebong tar katha ta yara bolche tara sob. Bas hoye gelo. Amra ei ye sob guru-giri korchi amra ki natun ekta jinis tairi korechi? Bhagavan ya boleche amra repeat korchi, 'dekho Bhagavan ei bolche', (Kṛṣṇa is the acarya and they who are repeating His words. That is it. As we are teaching, did we create a new thing? Whatever the Lord has said, we are just repeating that, "See the Lord said said this.") Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). 'Ei Kṛṣṇa manus na Bhagavan, er ceye baro ar keu noy ei amra bolchi eta svikar kore nao', ar ki bolchi? Ei ye sob Ameriaca, Europe sob boi toi likhe bola ache, dekhun sakalei siksha dite pare. To bolchi ki amra! Oi ya Bhagavan boleche seguli. Amra natun kichu ekta manufacture korchi? Ei sastre te bale 'Kṛṣṇas-tu bhagavan sayam' amra bole dicchi. Ora svikar kore nicche. Hoye gelo. Apnar indrya to perfect noy, se sakalei jane. Kintu yar perfect tar katha ta nicchen na keno? Ki uttar ache? Balun. ("Kṛṣṇa is not a human being, He is Godhead, nobody is greater than Him. I am asking you to accept this," what are we saying except this? All these countries, America, Europe—we are telling them by writing books—see everyone can teach. So we are saying what the Lord is saying. Are we manufacturing new things? The sastra is saying, Kṛṣṇastu bhagavan sayam. We are saying the same, and they are accepting . . . that's it. Everyone knows that your senses are not perfect. But the person who has got perfect senses, when he is saying, then why are you not accepting that? Do you have any answers? Tell me.)

Indian man: Tarai . . . (indistinct) . . . pete cay to! Taratari pacchena . . . (They are . . . (indistinct) . . . want to get that. They are not getting it quickly . . .)

Prabhupāda: Sob tader ke . . . apni to grahani korchen na. Tahole ki kore paben? Apni yodi grahan korten taholeto katha tai bolten na. Apnar sandeha ache. Sei janye apni jijnes korchen 'ki kore mon take thik . . . mon take thik korbar janye to sob sastre bole diyeche. Ei karo. (They are all . . . but you are not accepting. Then how will you get? If you would accept, then you could not say this. You have a doubt. That's why you are asking, "How to believe in the mind . . . there is a method in the sastra, how to correct the mind. Just do this.) Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ (BG 18.65). Apni nicchen na keno? Mon take ki kore thik korbo, ei katha tai prosno ase na mathay, karon jini Bhagavan tini bolechen, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, seta korchen na keno? Eta te ki muskil hoy? Balun. Apnar to ei prosna ye, monta ki kore thik kara yay. Ar Bhagavan nije bolche 'man-manā bhava mad-bhakto' eta nicchen na keno? Eta nicchen na keno? (Then why are you not accepting? Why are you not taking this? How to correct this question that is coming to mind, because the Lord has said: "Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto", then why are you not doing this? What is the difficulty? Tell me. You are questioning how I can allure my mind. And the Lord himself is saying that, "Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto", then why are you not accepting this?)

mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

(BG 7.1)

Tomar nijer bisaye bole dicche, apnar mental speculation korbar ki ache? Ya bolche sunun sob thik hoye yabe. Se sob bad diye khali edik, odik ghurle ki hobe? Apnar prasner jabab dicchi, yodi tate apatti thake bolun. Ekjan bhadra lok jijnes korlen ye ei ye, Puri yabar garita kon dike cole? Se bole dekho ei dik diye . . . (indistinct) . . . ar ta na hole jijnes korbar darkar nei, nijer mone yeta iccha koruk. Tahole jijnasa korte hoy emon jayga yekhane bisvas ache, ar se ya bolbe sunte hobe. Tahole to kaj hobe na. Take apni bisvas koren na, jijnes karen na jijnes kore apnar samay nasta, tar samay nasta korbe keno? Balo. Apni bollen mon take ki kore bos korte hobe? Ta amra to nijer katha boli na, amra Bhagavaner katha boli. Ei ye Bhagavan bolchen 'man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣhyasi . . .' ei sob katha nicchen na keno? Bolo. Ki karon? Jabab dao. Ki karon? Bolo . . . (indistinct) . . . ei kathar jabab dicchen na apni. Bolun. Mane katha ye asol katha se sob sunbo na. Oi boka loker katha sunbo nijer mon gara ekta kichu korbo, ei sob colbe. Kajei ami boka hoye thakbo. Kono dini amar buddhi hobe na. (He is telling you about yourself, so what is the need of mental speculation? Listen to whatever he is saying then everything will be okay. If you leave all this, if you wander here and there, then will it be okay? I am giving an answer to your question. If you have any objections then tell me. A gentleman has asked a person which car will go to Puri? He said "Go this way" . . . (indistinct) . . . otherwise you don't need to ask, do whatever you want. That means you have to ask someone whom you believe, and you have to listen to whatever he says. Otherwise it won't work. The person you don't believe in, if you ask him, then it will be wasting time for you and him—so why should you waste his time? Tell me. You asked me how to lure my mind? So we don't talk ourselves, we say the words of the Lord. The Lord is saying: "Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, mām evaiṣhyasi . . ." so why are you not accepting this? Tell me. What is the reason? Give me the reason. Answer me . . . (indistinct) . . . you are not giving the answer about this. Tell me. So it means, "I don't listen to the authority." "I will listen to the fools and do whatever my mind says", this will go on. That's why I will remain a fool. I will never be intelligent.)

Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Caitanya Mahaprabhu . . . Kṛṣṇa ese age bojhalen, abar Kṛṣṇa abar bhakta hoye elen bojhalen, eteo yodi na buhjhte paren tahole pora kapal. Kapal pure geche, kasto paben. Sayam Bhagavan ese nije bojhalen, setao nebo na, abar Bhagavan bhakta rupe ese bojhacchen setao nebo na. Tahole kopal pureche, pora kapale ar ki hobe? Eisob katha nen sob thik hoye yabe. Ar ta na hole sono ta anya der. Amader Bangladeshe ekta gala gal dey 'pora kapal'. Ta sei pora kopal hoye thakle ki hobe? (Caitanya Mahaprabhu . . . in the beginning Kṛṣṇa has come to make people understand. Again Kṛṣṇa has come as a devotee to make people understand the same philosophy, but if you still don't understand, then you are nothing more than unfortunate. You are unfortunate, so you are going to struggle. The Lord Himself has come to make you understand. If I don't understand that, then again the Lord has come as a devotee to make us understand and then if we don't understand that, then we are less fortunate—what will happen with this bad luck? Just accept all these things then everything will be alright. Otherwise you can listen to others. There is a term in Bangladesh which is "pora kapal" (unfortunate). So it is good to remain unfortunate?) "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So we can take the words of the ācāryas. Then everything will be all right. Ei sadharan formula diye janen (By this simple formula,) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21).

Nao na, ete to kono kharca nai, kono loksan o nai, eisob korchen na keno? Rastay colchen yodi Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa japa erokom korchen . . . (indistinct) . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . ete ki emon loksan ache? . . . (indistinct) . . . eisob korchen na keno? Yodi Harinama koren ta apnake keu fasi debe? Eta sastre ye karone korche. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, eisob koren na keno? Apnar golay keu fasi diye debe? Ye e mukhe Harinama koreche. Ar ki apnar loksan hobe? Keu yodi labh take dekhe na! Mon thik hoye yabe. Sob thik hoye yabe. (Take this, there is no extra cost for this, there is no loss as well. So why are you not doing this? While you are walking on the road, if you then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . what is the harm of it? . . . (indistinct) . . . so why are you not doing this? If you chant Harinama then will anyone hang you? This is mentioned in the scriptures, that's why you are doing it. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam—so why don't you do this? Will anyone hang you by your throat? Just because you are doing Harinama with your mouth? So what is the harm of this? If someone sees the benefit of this then their mind will be fresh. And everything will be fine.) Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Sob bhul bhenge yabe. Bolun apnar prasner jabab hoyeche ki? Oke ki suncho? Bolo. (Then all your misunderstanding will be cleared up. So tell me did you get the answer to your question? What are you asking him? Tell me.)

Indian man: Tar mane sob samay Kṛṣṇa nam ke smaran korte hobe. (That means we have to remember Kṛṣṇa's name all the time.)

Prabhupāda: Korun na sob thik hobe. (Yes just do it then everything will be fine.) Kīrtanīya sadā hariḥ. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā' athaeb apni Kṛṣṇa nam korchen apnar friend circle apnake criticize korbe, kintu apnake egulo sahya korte hobe, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā' ta apni eta korben. Eta Mahaprabhur siksha. (So when you are chanting Kṛṣṇa's name your friends will criticize you, but you have to tolerate that, "Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā" so you have to do this. This is the teaching of Mahaprabhu.) Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā/ amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). (long pause) Apni cole yacchen? Kichu prasna ache naki? Accha. Prasad to pan. (Are you leaving? Do you have any other questions? Alright. Please take prasadam.) Give them prasāda. Yan sob prasad pan. (Please go there and take prasadam.)

Indian boy: I want to read some books published by Swāmījī. Can I get?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? You can have here. We have got forty standing orders from this city in different libraries, colleges. So you can take books from any library, or if you like you can purchase also.

Indian boy: From libraries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many libraries, they have ordered. There is a list in Orissan. (rings bell) (aside) You can give me little, little sample . . . (break) . . . for life that it is a dead body. A dead body. So what is the use of decorating a dead body? So if anyone accepts Christ actually and his instruction, then it proves that he has got a good soul. Otherwise what . . . he's dead body. That's a fact. If one accepts that Christ said: "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not do this," if one is actually a person with soul, they must accept this. Otherwise where is the use? Dead body. The same thing, as we say, aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam (Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 3.11). What is the use of decorating a dead body? A dead body means soul-less. When the soul is not there, it is called dead body. So even one has got the soul, but he does not act . . . they possesses the soul, then it is dead body. So when we shall hear about the land? One program is suspended. That program is for constructing a house for me.

Gargamuni: Oh, in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have suspended it. So first of all let us see how much land we are going. Then we shall select.

Gargamuni: Well, I feel this land acquisition is not going to take place so soon, 'cause as . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why should we think?

Gargamuni: That has always been your program.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why should we think Kṛṣṇa is poor man?

Gargamuni: You used to give us ISKCON bullets when we came.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. You were from the very beginning. Alone, I was preparing. "Give them at least one or two cāpāṭis. That's all."

Gargamuni: You were keeping in the corner . . .

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Gargamuni: . . . in your apartment. We used to ask, "Swāmījī, can we take?" And you used to say: "Yes."

Prabhupāda: And that Stryadīśa?

Gargamuni: Yes, Stryadīśa. He would eat twenty cāpāṭis.

Prabhupāda: "Stryadīśa, shall I give you more?" "Yes. Four." Then he finished. "Can I give you more?" "Yes." So I was giving him four at a time. So four at a time, I was giving five times, six times. (laughs)

Gargamuni: Yes, so much. There was always a stock of something.

Prabhupāda: That atta, one bag.

Gargamuni: One bag a week.

Prabhupāda: And Kīrtanānanda was preparing at a time at least ten cāpāṭis in that oven, very quickly. Yes. And Jadurāṇī was rolling. Everyone was engaged. And on Saturday we prepared so many samosās, purīs and sweetballs, kept in stock, and Sunday people were coming. At least seventy-five guests.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. In that little room . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: . . . in 26 Second Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: It was packed up.

Prabhupāda: Acyutānanda's mother was coming. Sometimes your mother came? No.

Gargamuni: Not for a feast, but she came.

Prabhupāda: No, she used to come. And was kissing you. (laughter) He's very pet son of his mother. Sometimes I told her, "Mrs. Bruce, you can give us some money." "I have given my two sons!" And "That's all right."

Gargamuni: Angry. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: I have met his mother. Is very nice lady.

Rāmeśvara: My family is very much afraid that they may lose another son to this movement. (Prabhupāda laughs) They are very afraid of that. They know that this is so good. The books are so convincing.

Prabhupāda: But I don't think your mother was any time angry upon me.

Gargamuni: No.

Prabhupāda: No. She liked at our . . .

Gargamuni: She knows we're leading a good life.

Rāmeśvara: We have one mother in Los Angeles of a girl named Līlā-śakti. She's a big book distributor. And her mother, she loves this movement so much that when the deprogrammers start debating us, she stands up and yells at them that, "My daughter was on drugs, hippie, before she came to this movement. This movement has saved her. If I had known about this movement when I was a young girl, I would have joined this movement!" On television she's speaking like that, very strongly: "You have no right to criticize! You don't know anything about this movement."

Gargamuni: Śravānanda's mother too.

Rāmeśvara: She says: "You just come over to my house for lunch and I'll tell you all about this movement, how nice it is." She started this club, Parents for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she is very sincere. And her daughter, this Līlā . . .? What is?

Rāmeśvara: Līlā-śakti.

Prabhupāda: She's wonderful girl. She's expert in everything. Hayagrīva's mother, father?

Gargamuni: Yes. They wrote that letter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, they personally came. And many fathers came to Los Angeles to give me thanks, "Swāmījī, it is our great fortune that you have come." They said like that.

Gargamuni: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's also another program which I think requires some financial assistance, is this boat program. In one month they sold ten thousand books, a group of ten men. And they go to so many villages. And I think if we can get a mechanized boat, a larger boat, they can go to so many places which usually takes so much time, because generally for them . . .

Prabhupāda: Mechanized means . . .

Gargamuni: A diesel engine.

Prabhupāda: . . . then you'll require mechanics. You cannot ply or . . . independently. If some mechanical wrong is there, then you are . . .

Gargamuni: No, we have our own men who service our vehicles. They know diesel engine.

Prabhupāda: So there is no objection, but too much mechanical means you have to depend. You consider that.

Gargamuni: But then sometimes there's also no wind, and they have to sit for three or four days.

Prabhupāda: So wind you cannot move. That is not safe.

Gargamuni: No, if there's no wind, then they can't move. And they have to have these men to . . . they walk on the shore and push the boat, and it takes so long. And there's so many villages that they can do. They can do thirty thousand books in one month if they had a boat which could travel freely. And I . . .

Prabhupāda: Then what will happen to this boat?

Gargamuni: No, we can use both. But we want to expand the program.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So I have no objection. Money can be supplied, but it may not be another burden. That's it.

Gargamuni: No, we'll investigate the ship, because in Calcutta is a very big center of shipbuilding.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: They build big ships there. And we don't have to limit our traveling simply in the river. We can also go along the coast of Bengal and also Orissa. There's so many villages. And if we have . . .

Prabhupāda: Orissa . . . that means you have to go by the sea, Bay of Bengal

Gargamuni: Bay of Bengal. And there's so many villages along there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: You can do so much saṅkīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: We could come . . .

Prabhupāda: If . . . the Ganges comes in this way, then you come to Bengal, Bay of Bengal—this side, Orissa, this side, East Bengal. Is it not?

Gargamuni: Yes. They recently went to Sagar Island, and they did very nice saṅkīrtana there. So . . . but this boat is not large enough, and it's also very . . . it takes so much time.

Prabhupāda: So why not another boat like that?

Gargamuni: But you can't get a larger boat than that, and it's too small. Our temple is too small. We need a longer boat with a larger temple for the . . .

Prabhupāda: You require a steamer-like?

Gargamuni: A small steam . . . a small fishing boat like those fishing boats. They have these big . . .

Prabhupāda: It is run by petrol?

Gargamuni: No. Diesel.

Prabhupāda: Diesel.

Gargamuni: Yes. I've seen them in Calcutta. Next time you come, we can walk on the Ganges side. They're about sixty feet long.

Prabhupāda: So they are prepared in Calcutta?

Gargamuni: Yes. They make them there.

Prabhupāda: You can have.

Gargamuni: And we can get a custom-made ship. Your Divine Grace may also want to take. From Māyāpur we can go by boat. It takes only five or six hours by boat if we have an engine, and you may like the nice trip.

Hari-śauri: That'll be very nice.

Prabhupāda: So how you go?

Gargamuni: And we can have cruises . . .

Prabhupāda: No, how you go? You have to come to the sea? No.

Gargamuni: No. No. We go from Calcutta to Māyāpur by boat.

Prabhupāda: By boat. Then we can pass through this Naihati.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Naihati is the other way?

Hari-śauri: Panihati.

Gargamuni: Panihati, yes.

Prabhupāda: Panihati, ha. Panihati.

Gargamuni: You pass through . . . see, by this present boat it takes about ten days from Calcutta to Māyāpur. It takes a long time. And if there's no wind, they have to walk on the shore. And the boat is too small now for our program.

Prabhupāda: No, then you can take. What is the price?

Gargamuni: Well, I can only estimate. I have not gone deeply into it. But it will cost a few lakhs of rupees.

Prabhupāda: Few lakhs?

Gargamuni: Yeah. (Prabhupāda laughs) Well, it's a huge boat. But it can go on the sea. And we can do the whole coast of India. We can go all around the coast and do all the villages.

Prabhupāda: Why so much? Few lakhs?

Gargamuni: Well, it's a huge thing. It's made of solid teak wood. It's a huge thing.

Rāmeśvara: It's dangerous, going on the sea.

Gargamuni: No, not if you have proper navigation. And this sea is not so . . . it's not a rough sea.

Prabhupāda: Bay of Bengal is rough.

Gargamuni: I've been on the Bay of Bengal. No, actually I was not on the Bay of Bengal, I was near the mouth, in Bangladesh. It's rough . . .

Prabhupāda: Bay of Bengal is very rough.

Gargamuni: But Sagar Island, isn't that in the Bay?

Prabhupāda: Not actually in the bay. It is on the . . .

Rāmeśvara: Oh, we saw in Orissa beach, the Jagannātha beach, the waves are coming, very big waves.

Gargamuni: No, but I've seen fishing boats. I've seen them. They're small little boats.

Prabhupāda: But they are accustomed. They can . . .

Rāmeśvara: We need some pretty good men if you start sailing the waves.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes. We'll get a good navigator, definitely.

Rāmeśvara: You'll hire someone?

Gargamuni: No, we'll get a retired man. They'd love the work. Just like we have that engineer. He's a retired engineer. We pay him some small salary . . .

Prabhupāda: Why you want to go by boat to the coast?

Gargamuni: Because you can't get by road. There's no roads. They're dirt roads. Many of the villages you can't get to except along the water routes.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. But so far I know, it is very rough, Bay of Bengal.

Gargamuni: Well, we can invest . . . I know these ships in Calcutta. I saw at the pier at least five or six of these ships, these fishing boats, and they go up and down. I know if we take a . . .

Prabhupāda: No, if you get a big boat, that is all right—ferry boat. But if you get a small boat, the sea is very rough.

Gargamuni: Sixty feet. Sixty, seventy feet. My father had a sixty-foot boat, and we went in the Atlantic Ocean, and it wasn't so bad.

Prabhupāda: Atlantic Ocean is very rough.

Gargamuni: Yes. But we went there. We had a cruise boat. Actually it was forty-two feet. It was forty-two feet.

Prabhupāda: And here it is sixty.

Gargamuni: You can get sixty, seventy. Whatever we want we can custom make. But then we can expand this. They did ten thousand books. We can do more books. And there's so many villages.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are.

Gargamuni: And now in Orissa we have so many books. We could send a boat here and do the whole coast. The coast of Orissa, we could sell so many books in these villages.

Prabhupāda: So I have no objection. You consult amongst yourselves. I want expansion, that's all, some way or other. (laughs)

Gargamuni: But you can rest assured that I will investigate and see.

Prabhupāda: Don't make it a burden.

Gargamuni: No, no, no.

Prabhupāda: If it is properly utilized, do it. All right. Take rest. So you want this . . .? (break) This is the only camp connected with that unfortunate . . . (indistinct) . . . house?

Indian man (1): That's . . . I am wondering

Indian man (2): Kache ( Near) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (3): Kachei ekjan matha Maharaj ji . . . babaji kachei to achen. (A Mahārāja or babaji from a maṭha lives very close to this place.)

Prabhupāda: Tar light ache? (Does he have a light?)

Indian man (3): Na, amader eikhane (No, here our) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Devotee: It is not the first day that it has happened.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: It is not the first night that it has happened.

Prabhupāda: Daily it is going on? Eh?

Devotee: Last night we had electricity, but the nights before that, we had no electricity.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct) (end)