750513 - Conversation C - Perth

Conversations by Date, 1975

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

750513R3-PERTH - May 13, 1975 - 42:38 Minutes

(Conversation with Gaṇeśa dāsa's Mother and Sister)

Prabhupāda: Any city which has river and sunshine is considered to be first class.

Mother: You don't feel the cold in the nighttime here?

Prabhupāda: I am going on.

Gaṇeśa: She asked if you feel the cold in the nighttime.

Prabhupāda: Oh, a little, not very much. Yes.

Sister: Is this your first visit to Perth?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sister: It is. That's really good, good experience.

Gaṇeśa: My sister is learning at one institute of technology, just like the university. She is doing some course in . . . course in social work? In social work. (break) She works at one hospital. Also where else? One psychiatric nursing hospital. She is learning how to perform welfare activities for the benefit of others.

Prabhupāda: And what for your benefit?

Sister: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: What you are doing for your benefit?

Sister: For my benefit? It develops me, because it helps me to learn to give to others rather than, you know, for myself.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Everyone is doing for others, but what he is doing for himself?

Sister: Well, I feel it has developed me as a person. You know? I can look more into myself by helping others.

Prabhupāda: So what is the way of helping?

Sister: Well, sort of in the society it's full of problems, and people are just sort of lost, and I can't solve their problems, but I can help them to cope with them more adequately. That's what I hope to be able to do when I'm qualified.

Prabhupāda: But do you know what is the problem?

Sister: The problems? No. That's why they come to you, really. You know? They're expecting an answer. You can't really give them one, but . . .

Prabhupāda: The real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. So we are dealing with that problem. Now . . . does anybody like to die?

Sister: No, I don't think so.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the death is there.

Sister: Yeah, death is there. It's inevitable.

Mother: It's inevitable, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Inevitable, but you can avoid it. That we are giving. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you can avoid this problem: birth, death, old age and disease. That is our propaganda.

Mother: But you'll always have disease and you'll always have old age.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but just like you are diseased, so all the problems are there. But when you become cured of the disease, then there is no more problem. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means training people how to go back to home, back to Godhead. And as soon as he is educated to go back to home, back to Godhead, then all problems solved. (aside) Find out this verse:

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

(BG 4.9)

Gaṇeśa:

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti so 'rjuna

(BG 4.9)

Translation: "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: This is the solution of the real problem, that after . . . if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then after giving up this body, you don't accept another material body. And in the material existence the problems are not solved, because you have to, after death, you have to accept another material body. And as soon as you accept a material body, the sufferings are there, at least these four sufferings: birth, death, old age and disease. So it continues. If you take the body of a human being, the birth, death, old age, disease are there. If you take the body of a heavenly demigod, the birth, death, old age and disease are there. Or if you take the body of a dog, the birth, death, old age, disease are there. So any kind of birth, material body, you have to accept these four problems. And there are many other problems. But if you stop accepting a material body, then these things are finished. So we are training people, simply janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). What is the purport?

Gaṇeśa: Purport: "The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the sixth verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage, and therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body. Such liberation of the living entity from material bondage is not at all easy. The impersonalists and the yogīs attain liberation only after much trouble and many, many births. Even then, the liberation they achieve—merging into the impersonal brahma-jyotir of the Lord—is only partial, and there is the risk of returning again to this material world. But the devotee, simply by understanding the transcendental nature of the body and activities of the Lord, attains the abode of the Lord after ending this body and does not run the risk of returning again to this material world."

"In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Lord has many, many forms and incarnations: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Although there are many transcendental forms of the Lord, they are still one and the same Supreme Personality of Godhead. One has to understand this fact with conviction, although it is incomprehensible to mundane scholars and empiric philosophers. As stated in the Vedas: eko devo nitya-līlānurakto bhakta-vyāpī hṛdy antarātmā: 'The one Supreme Personality of Godhead is eternally engaged in many, many transcendental forms in relationships with His unalloyed devotees.' This Vedic version is confirmed in this verse of the Gītā personally by the Lord. He who accepts this truth on the strength of the authority of the Vedas and of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and who does not waste time in philosophical speculations, attains the highest perfectional stage of liberation. Simply by accepting this truth, one faith, one can, without a doubt, attain liberation. The Vedic version, tat tvam asi, is actually applied in this case. Anyone who understands Lord Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme, or who says unto the Lord, 'You are the Supreme Brahman, the Personality of Godhead,' is certainly liberated instantly, and consequently his entrance into the transcendental association of the Lord is guaranteed."

"In other words, such a faithful devotee of the Lord attains perfection, and this is confirmed by the following Vedic assertion: tam eva viditvāti mṛtyum eti nānyaḥ panthā vidyate 'yanāya (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 3.8). One can attain the perfect stage of liberation from birth and death simply by knowing the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no alternative, because anyone who does not understand Lord Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead is surely in the mode of ignorance. Consequently, he will not attain salvation simply, so to speak, by licking the outer surface of the bottle of honey, or by interpreting the Bhagavad-gītā according to mundane scholarship. Such empiric philosophers may assume very important roles in the material world, but they are not necessarily eligible for liberation. Such puffed-up mundane scholars have to wait for the causeless mercy of the devotee of the Lord. One should therefore cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness with faith and knowledge, and in this way attain perfection."

Prabhupāda: So if you distribute this knowledge, that will be real social work. And if you give some help, temporary, but he remains subjected to the rules of birth, death and old age, that is temporary.

Sister: If you're devoted enough, can you gain release from birth, death and old age completely in one life?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is explained here.

Sister: Yeah, within one material life? You necessarily don't have to return?

Prabhupāda: No.

Sister: It's only if you haven't got rid of these impurities that you have to return, take on another body?

Prabhupāda: Just if you do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to. Here it is said: "One who understands Me definitely, he does not come." So try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And you become free from birth and death and old age.

Mother: And what about before they joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: He was subjected to birth and death and old age, that's all.

Mother: And after they join it?

Prabhupāda: And if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become free.

Sister: But your body still suffers death, old age.

Prabhupāda: Yes, as soon as you get a material body, you have to suffer. Either this body, Australian body, or American body or dog's body or cat's body or tree's body, any body, material world, you will have to suffer. First of all, this transfer of body, that is also suffering. In the material world it is only suffering, but because people are in ignorance, they take suffering as enjoyment.

Mother: Then why there is so much human suffering?

Prabhupāda: Because he has accepted this material body.

Mother: And this is why so much human suffering. Because they don't . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, on account of accepting a material body. Therefore every one of us should try how to avoid this process of accepting a material body. That should be our only endeavor. Not to make a temporary solution. That is not very good solution.

Mother: But the world will never all become Kṛṣṇa conscious, will they? There will always be different scriptures.

Prabhupāda: What different there may be?

Gaṇeśa: Different scriptures.

Śrutakīrti: She said everyone won't all become Kṛṣṇa conscious in the world.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So if you are serious to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you hear Kṛṣṇa, what does He say. Then you do that.

Sister: What about for a child, a newly born baby. Are they born into a material body because of their parents' bad doings?

Prabhupāda: No, he has taken that particular body in terms of his past activities. One is born as a human child; one is born as a dog, cat; one is born as something else. So according . . . the body is offered by material nature according to his work. That we were discussing, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Material nature, by the order . . . God is within you. God is sitting there. He knows what you want. So God orders material nature, "Give him such and such body. He wants to enjoy like this." So material nature . . . just he gives up this body, he is under the control of the material nature. The material nature sends him to such a father, and the father gives the semina in the mother's womb, and mother gives him the body.

Mother: I believe that there's God in everybody, but why are some people so evil? Why are some people so evil?

Prabhupāda: Because he does not care for the words of God.

Mother: But as I say, God is within all of us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is there. God says that, "You don't do like that." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām . . . (BG 18.66): "You just surrender to Me." But he will not do that.

Mother: And yet people can be so evil.

Prabhupāda: Therefore God gives him chance, "All right, you enjoy as you like, and make your life risky. What can I do?"

Mother: The people know when they're doing evil, don't they?

Prabhupāda: Just like you have got children. You say, according to your knowledge, every children, "My dear children, you do." But it is not necessarily that they will abide by your order. Similarly, God gives the instruction that "You give up all this. You simply surrender to Me. I shall take charge you." But he does not do that. He wants to live independently. Therefore he is suffering.

Mother: But there's so much evil in the world.

Prabhupāda: Avil?

Gaṇeśa: Evil.

Mother: Evil.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is evil. You don't try to carry out the orders of God, this is evil.

Mother: But what I'm trying to say is there's more evil in the world than goodness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is evil, why you are in this material world? You have accepted evil; therefore you are in this material world. And if you accept God, the good, then you are in the spiritual world. You don't accept God; you want evil. Therefore you are in the material world. Just like in the jail, prison house, who are they? They are all criminals. Similarly, every one of us who are within this material world, they are all criminals because they have disobeyed the order of God. In different status only, but they are all criminals. Because every one of them is subjected to the rules of nature: birth, death, old age and disease. So your child is very intelligent. He has taken to this. Now you can do also the same thing, both mother and daughter.

Mother: And his wife.

Gaṇeśa: My wife.

Śrutakīrti: His wife.

Prabhupāda: Where is your wife?

Gaṇeśa: Melbourne. Śubhalakṣmī-devī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she is also nice.

Gaṇeśa: Big BBT distributor.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very . . . so both the husband, wife and child is happy. Now the mother and sister should be happy.

Mother: (laughs) I'm happy if my children are happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be more happy. (laughter) You will have to take, because son inherits the quality of mother. So you have got the quality. You are not exhibiting now. So by the influence of your son, you will take to it.

Sister: Has everyone the potential to accept Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Everyone, yes. Oh, yes, everyone.

Sister: But what about people that are never . . . that are always kept in ignorance. There's a lot of people . . .

Prabhupāda: He does not take. He does not take willingly.

Sister: That's what I mean, yeah. There's a lot of people that just don't even know He exists.

Prabhupāda: But if he takes, he has the potentiality. If you agree . . . Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam . . . (BG 18.66). If you agree to Kṛṣṇa's proposal, then you will . . . that potentiality is manifested.

Sister: But what about people that are never exposed to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Then he will suffer. He will constantly change his body one after another, sometimes good body, sometimes bad body, and he will suffer. So as soon as you accept a material body, you will suffer. It may be good body or bad body, it doesn't matter. Suffering is there. When a dog is taking birth, he has to take the suffering within the womb of his mother, and when a human man, human body is coming out, he has also to take the . . . it is not joke to remain ten months within the packed-up abdomen of the mother. Is it very pleasure, do you think? If you are kept in that way now, you will die within three seconds. In that condition you have to live ten months. So how much suffering it was.

Mother: Suffering for whom?

Prabhupāda: Suffering for the man who is taking birth. Sometimes now they are killing. The mother is killing. The time is coming so bad that mother is killing child.

Sister: What about like euthanasia, say? Isn't that nonacceptance of a material body? If by some . . . for some reason the child isn't allowed to be born?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is said here, that if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then after giving up this body—this is material body, you have to give up—so you are not coming again in the womb of another material mother. You are transferred to the spiritual world by nature's law. They do not know the subtle laws which is going on underneath. They are simply concerned superficially. Because they have no knowledge of the spirit soul—they think the body is everything—so therefore knowledge is imperfect. Body is only the covering. Real person is the spirit soul. So the modern education has no knowledge of this.

Mother: But most people are materialistically minded, aren't they? There's very few that aren't.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gaṇeśa: Most people are materialistically minded. Not many people are spiritually inclined.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect of the modern civilization.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And therefore they are suffering.

Sister: How can you get back to Godhead . . .

Prabhupāda: That is stated here. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Sister: Yeah, how can you follow it if you've never been exposed to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: The book is there.

Sister: Yeah, but people who've never seen the book, never met Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: So book is available. Why don't you see it?

Sister: Yeah, I can see it, (laughter) I can see it, but there's a lot of people all over the world who have not.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are going door to door canvassing, "Take this book."

Mother: (laughs) You're not doing it. Your boys are.

Prabhupāda: Our business is to sell this book so that people may take advantage of it.

Mother: And that's the only way.

Prabhupāda: That is our movement. We have got fifty books like that, four hundred pages each. This is one thousand pages. We are giving enough knowledge.

Mother: For people to become interested.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mother: But nobody off the street would go into the temple, would they?

Prabhupāda: Any way, if he comes in contact with us, he is gainer. We are giving opportunity, canvassing, "Come in contact with us." Just now, before you, one big man came. So I talked about first-class men, and he admitted. So he said at the last moment, "Now let me go and engage myself in fourth-class activities." So everyone is engaged in fourth-class activities, and we are trying to make first-class men. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . .

Mother: You've got a hard job ahead of you, then.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, very hard job. But everyone can become first class if he likes.

Mother: If they want to.

Sister: This is similar to many views of psychologists who believe in self-actualization.

Prabhupāda: Belief is different thing and fact is one thing.

Sister: Philosophi . . . or, say, hypothesize that you can reach self-actualization.

Prabhupāda: Belief is no good. I believe. You may believe something wrong. That is not . . . you must know the fact. That is wanted.

Mother: But a person knows if they're doing wrong always.

Prabhupāda: If you are educated in a wrong way, then you will do wrong.

Mother: But I mean a person knows when they're doing wrong. They know when they're doing evil.

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand. They are sometimes doing wrong thing as right thing. So many wrong things they are doing. One has to suffer. Nature will not excuse. (pause)

Sister: (aside) Tired? Are you tired?

Mother: No.

Gaṇeśa: You have some more questions you would like to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think they have finished, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Give them prasādam.

Gaṇeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So try to bring your mother and sister to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is your duty also. And Kṛṣṇa will help. Because they are in relationship with you, Kṛṣṇa will help them, your family. Kṛṣṇa will think of your family, yes. Just like a soldier fighting, the government takes cares of his family. That is special prerogative. If he dies in the fighting, the government gives pension to the family members. So you are fortunate in that way, because your son is fighting with māyā. So you take advantage of it. You read the books. You try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And your own son is there. You can take instruction from him. So take advantage. Don't lose this opportunity.

Mother: What do you think about Hebrew religion?

Prabhupāda: Well, there cannot be Hebrew religion, Christian religion, Hindu . . . religion is one. Religion means God's rules. God is one. So if you are this or that, you can manufacture so many ways, but God's ruling is one that, "You surrender to Me." That's all.

Mother: So we all believe in the one God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is one. God cannot be two. Then He is not God. There cannot be two Gods. God is one. Otherwise how . . . what is the meaning of God?

Mother: That's right.

Prabhupāda: So, (aside) find out this, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya.

Amogha:

mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat

kiñcid asti dhanañjaya

mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ

sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva

(BG 7.7)

Translation: "O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread."

Prabhupāda: God is the Supreme Truth. So Supreme Truth cannot be Hebrew truth, Christian truth, Hindu truth. Truth is truth. Just like gold. Because gold is found in America, nobody says: "It is American gold." It is gold. So similarly, God is one. He is for Hebrew, He is for Hindu, He is for Muslim, He is for everyone. Simply we have to know what is God. So if you try to understand through Hebrew religion, that's all right. But if you come to know what is God, that is all right. Otherwise useless. If you cannot understand what is God, then "Hebrew," "Hindu," "Muslim," "Christian," these different names, they are useless. And if you understand God, then whatever method it is, it is all good.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So first of all, whether the Hebrews, they do understand what is God? That is the point. You are asking about the Hebrews, so do you think that through the Hebrew method one can understand God?

Mother: I think one can understand God regardless of what religion you are.

Prabhupāda: Understand, but suppose . . . are you Hebrew?

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the nature of God? Can you explain?

Mother: No, I can't explain.

Prabhupāda: Then what do you know about God? You do not know what is God.

Mother: I believe in God.

Prabhupāda: Believing, that is one thing. Believe in father. Everyone has got father. But if you do not know who is your father, what does he do, then that is not perfect knowledge. It is a fact: without father, nobody is born. So even your child has not seen who is her father, but it is a fact that there is a father. But she or he must know who is he, what is his nature, what does he do. And that is perfect knowledge. Simply to know, "I have got a father" is not perfect knowledge. I must know who is that father, what does he do, where does he live. That is perfect knowledge. Otherwise it is assumed that every man has got a father. Without father, how you can come into existence? That's a fact. But if he does not know who is actually his father, that is imperfect knowledge. What do you think, the nature of God?

Sister: I think He's just something all-knowing, you know . . .

Prabhupāda: Old?

Gaṇeśa: All-knowing. All-knowledgeable.

Prabhupāda: All-knowledgeable.

Sister: Yes, my conception of . . .

Prabhupāda: Then all-knowledgeable means you must know, all-knowledgeable. You just explain what is the nature of God.

Śrutakīrti: She's saying God knows everything. That is her conception.

Prabhupāda: Oh. God knows everything, but everything means, then, if you accept this formula, then He knows past, present and future.

Sister: No, that's right. No past, present or future. No, I don't think that. Just eternal.

Prabhupāda: No, no. God knows everything means He knows past, present and future. That is all-knowing. So if He knows past, present and future, then you should accept His instruction. That should be the next. So what is His instruction?

Sister: Inner structure?

Prabhupāda: Instruction.

Sister: Instruction.

Prabhupāda: His instruction is, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru.

Amogha:

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto

mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru

mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te

pratijāne priyo 'si me

(BG 18.65)

Translation: "Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend."

Prabhupāda: Now, man-manāḥ: you have to think of God. But if you do not know who is God, then how you will think of Him? If I say that, "You always think of me," now you are seeing me, you can think of me. But if you have no knowledge about me, who is, then how you can think of me?

Sister: It's only by what you are told about God, and you have to develop your own conception until you actually meet Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we are saying that, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." They are accepting, and they are thinking of God, and they are making progress.

Sister: But have they met God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is God.

Sister: They can believe in Him, but have they met Him?

Prabhupāda: So belief, that is being effective. It is not blind belief. They are seeing the picture of Kṛṣṇa, and they are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and they are making progress.

Sister: But that would be the same if I could see a picture of you or I could see a . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. Myself and my picture, is there any difference?

Sister: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If you see my picture, you see me. This is material picture. But God is omnipotent. God's picture is also God. That is God's potency. Otherwise . . . we are worshiping Deity. People may think: "This is the form of Kṛṣṇa." The form of Kṛṣṇa, the name of Kṛṣṇa, the quality of Kṛṣṇa—they are all Kṛṣṇa. That is Absolute. In the material world there is difference. Otherwise, why they are engaged in chanting, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare . . ."? Have they become mad? Because Kṛṣṇa person and Kṛṣṇa's name, the same thing. That is Absolute. So here it is said, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. So if you chant Kṛṣṇa's name, that means you are directly associating with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are becoming purified. Just like if you associate with fire, you will remain always warm. Is it not? If you remain near the fireplace, you remain always warm. Similarly, if you chant Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa, not different—then you will remain always spiritual. Simple thing. You chant Kṛṣṇa, easy thing, and you remain with Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty?

Because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's form . . . this picture is here; then Kṛṣṇa is here. You have to realize that. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa now with your material eyes, so Kṛṣṇa has appeared before you so that you can see Him with your material eyes. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. But He is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is everything. God is everything. So why the picture of God is not God? We say: "God is omnipotent, omnipresent." So why Kṛṣṇa is not present in the picture? Then what is the meaning of omnipresent? If He is omnipresent, He is present also within His picture. Where is the objection? And that's a fact. He is omnipresent. He is present everywhere. Now, to become convenient for you, He has appeared like picture.

Sister: But you don't need to see the picture to . . . you don't need to have the . . . with His omnipotence, you don't need to have the picture.

Prabhupāda: No, because you, without seeing Him, you do not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You require to see Him. So He has appeared before you so that you can see Him. That is His mercy, so that you see Him and you think of Him, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. You see Him and think of Him. That is the meaning of picture. You cannot say: "I have not seen God." Here is God. You'll see God's picture here in the temple. In the śāstra description is there. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam (Bs. 5.30): "Kṛṣṇa is playing on His flute." That is the information in the Vedas. Here He is playing on flute. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāya . . . "His eyes are like lotus petal." You see? The description in the Vedas and the picture, the same. It is not imagination. It is in the Vedas. Vedas will give you information. Then surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). There are cows. Kṛṣṇa is very much fond of cows. So what is stated in the Vedas about Kṛṣṇa, that is depicted. It is not imagination, not that we have imagined something like, "This is like . . ." No. It is corroborated, established by Vedic knowledge. So you'll find Kṛṣṇa's form like this everywhere. In India there are millions of temples. Everywhere you will find this.

Mother: How old is Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: He is never old. That is material question. He is the oldest person. He is the origin of everything.

Mother: It is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore He is the oldest. That is stated in the Brahma . . . advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33), ananta-rūpam, ādyam, the origin, nava-yauvanam, but He is always young man. He is the oldest person. He is the original father, from whom we are all born, but He is always young. Nava-yauvanam. Nava, nava means newly youthful life. It is not that because Kṛṣṇa is the oldest person, therefore He has become very old. No. That is material conception. (indistinct whispering between mother and daughter) (pause)

Gaṇeśa: I think they will leave now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)