740803 - Lecture SB 01.05.22 - Vrndavana
Pradyumna: Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."
Devotee: Would you like the stand to be lower?
Prabhupāda: No.
idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
So this is our mission, that find out the original cause. That is scientific research. All the scientists, they are trying to find out the original cause. That is advancement of education. They are analyzing one after another. But till now, they could not find it out. Big, big scientists have tried. But they could not... Only theory: "This is the original cause. This is the original cause."
But we do not depend on the theories. We depend on the Vedic conclusion. We do not require to make any research. Just like ordinarily we say there are 900,000 forms of body in the water. We get it from Vedic knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Now, the biologists, let them confirm it. Or deny it. Because... They cannot confirm it because their knowledge is experimental. Unless they find it actually, by actual experience, that there are so many living forms within the water, they cannot say yes. Neither they are able to find it out. Is it not the position? First of all, if we say to the biologists that "There are 900,000 different forms of life or species within the water," they will say, "How it is you are affirming in, so positively, without experiment, without research?" They'll say. Then we'll ask, "Then you say." That they cannot say. This is their position. They'll say, "In future..." Future, there is no question. You do not know now. Admit this. So this is their position. Therefore this experimental knowledge is always imperfect. Always imperfect. It cannot be perfect. Because our experience, our power of perception, advancement of knowledge, they are imperfect. They are deficiency.
Therefore, for perfect knowledge, you have to approach the perfect. We accept Lord Kṛṣṇa as the perfect, and His bona fide representative is also perfect. How he is perfect? Kṛṣṇa may be perfect, one may admit, but how his bona fide representative is also perfect? So the answer is the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, he does not say anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect. He may be imperfect. It doesn't matter. But he is receiving knowledge from the perfect, and he's simply repeating that knowledge. That is the instruction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Yāre dekha tāre kaha, kaha kṛṣṇa-kathā. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-kathā.
yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
You don't speak your upadeśa, your instruction. That is nonsense. What you are? That is the defect of the modern civilization. They simply want to instruct by his experience. But what is your experience? They're all imperfect. But they are persisting, "No, we cannot accept any knowledge without experiment." Is it not the position. Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Experiments.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're after.
Prabhupāda: Now, that the scientists will say, "Why we shall accept Kṛṣṇa's version as perfect?" Do they not say like that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, they ask.
Prabhupāda: But they cannot give any perfect information, their theories. So our process is to take Kṛṣṇa... Not only our, this is the paramparā system. All the ācāryas- Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya—they take Kṛṣṇa's version as perfect. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, therefore, that "You do not instruct anything which is manufactured by you. Do not instruct all these..." Because you are imperfect. You have manufactured all your theories. They are imperfect. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa CC Madhya 7.128 . This is perfection. If you say Kṛṣṇa's upadeśa, instruction, then it is perfect. And if you say your experimental instruction, that is imperfect.
Here it is said that idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ... Every knowledge... Just like here is our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He has got the doctorate title. We have seen your book. It is a learned scholarship, research work. So that is nice. But he has admitted the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. So we are asking everyone that "Whatever knowledge you have got..." It doesn't matter whether you are a chemist or physicist or an engineer or medical man... Any... There are so many. Lawyer, politician. So many departmental knowledge. So one becomes doctor and expert by high research work. For the last... How many years you were in USA?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think five years.
Prabhupāda: Five years. After five years hard work and placing the theses among the learned scholars, they admitted, "Yes, it is very nice research work." Now they have offered him a Ph.D. So it is tapasya. Tapasya. Without tapasya, you cannot get any credit. That is not possible. If one wants to get credit immediately, without tapasya, that is bogus. Therefore it is said, tapasaḥ, and śrutasya. Śrutasya means hearing from the authorities. By attending lectures of the professors, of the scientific scholars, hearing. Or Vedic knowledge.
So anyway, everyone is getting knowledge, perfection, by tapasya, by austerity, by learned scholarship. So here it is said that, that these things are required for describing Kṛṣṇa. These things are required for describing Kṛṣṇa. Not only on the theory, but actually to prove that this knowledge is there, Kṛṣṇa is full of all opulences, and... It is said... Jñāna, jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva śaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganā. Eh? What is the beginning? Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ ( Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47) . Kṛṣṇa means He's the full opulent Personality of Godhead with all riches, all reputation, all beauty, all knowledge. That you have to prove. Any department of knowledge, you have to prove that it..., this knowledge is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1] .
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (aside:) Let him sit down properly. That is scholarship. You make research work, but... In the śāstra it is said that Kṛṣṇa is the original person of this departmental knowledge. Suppose you are a lawyer. So Kṛṣṇa gives the law. This is research work. Just actually Kṛṣṇa gives. What is Kṛṣṇa gives? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja BG 18.66 . This is law. The first giver of law is Kṛṣṇa, that "You give up all nonsense. Surrender unto Me." This is law. Then you'll understand everything. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru BG 18.66 . Religion means the law given by Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is religion. Otherwise, it is not religion. That is cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra BG 18.66 . This is cheating religion. If you do not follow Kṛṣṇa, that is cheating.
"Kṛṣṇa" means... When I say "Kṛṣṇa," Kṛṣṇa means God. God is one. That is Kṛṣṇa. Others, they admit that God is one. But they do not know who is that one God. That is their defect. That is the difference between us and others. They do not know... Just like if I say that "Have you got any father?" So he'll say, "Yes, I have got my father." "Now, who is your father?" "I do not know." That's not a very good credit. Because without father, mother, there is no existence. So everyone knows I have got a father. But who is my father, that I do not know. At least, in India, one who cannot say his father's name, immediately he becomes degraded. Just like the Jābāla Satyakāma. Jābāla Satyakāma, he, he was... He went to Gautama Muni, "Please initiate me." And according to Vedic conclu..., initiation is meant for the brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Not for the śūdras. Śūdras are not initiated. And in the Kali-yuga, because everyone is a śūdra, therefore he's first of all given training to become a brāhmaṇa. Then the sacred thread is offered. This is the process. Because actually, initiation cannot be given to anyone except a brāhmaṇa. So kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga, everyone is śūdra. " That is to be accepted without any disagreement. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Because they have no saṁskāra. Asaṁskṛtāḥ kriyā-hīnā mlecchāḥ. One who is not undergone the reformatory processes, garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, upanayana-saṁskāra... There are ten kinds of saṁskāras, reformatory. One who has not gone, or one who is not permitted to undergo the saṁskāra, he's śūdra. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Everyone is born śūdra. By reformatory method, he becomes twice-born—by the spiritual master and Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge is the mother, and spiritual master is the father.
In this way, the Jābāla Upaniṣad... He was asked by his, by Gautama Muni, "Who is your father?" So he said that "I do not know." "Then go to your mother. Ask her." The mother could not say, that "I do not know who is your father. I have connection with so many men." So he came back to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know." She said that she had many connections, 'I do not who is particularly your father.' " But Gautama Muni immediately accepted him, "Yes, you are brāhmaṇa, because you are truthful. Nobody dares to say like that, that 'I do not know my father's name. My mother said that she had many connections.' " Because he was truthful, satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā, so by the quality, he was accepted immediately, and he was initiated, that "You have the qualities of brāhmaṇa. " A brāhmaṇa will speak truth, even to his enemy. If the enemy comes, if a rogue comes, "How much money you have got in your box?" a brāhmaṇa will say, "Sir, I have got one hundred dollars." (laughs) Just like the other day, in the Customs examination in Bombay, so our Brahmānanda Mahārāja was asked, "What is the value?" "No, I have purchased it." "What is the value?" "Two hundred dollars." He did not say that "I am using it for long time." No. "It is new. I have purchased." That's all right. Yes. But Kali-yuga is so implicated that sometimes we have to speak the untruth. But it is the business of the brāhmaṇa to speak the truth. No untruth.
So, so in this way our proposition is that if we want perfection, then in whatever position we are, either I am a brāhmaṇa, or I am a kṣatriya, or I am a vaiśya, or I am a śūdra— it doesn't matter, if we simply take this vow, that Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything... A śūdra is also a, the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that He is the cause of the śūdras. You should not hate anyone, because everyone is born of Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā BG 14.4 . Kṛṣṇa says. Sarva-yoniṣu. It doesn't matter in what form the living entity is there, but Kṛṣṇa claims that He is the father, He is the father. So either brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra or mleccha, yavana, or white, black, European, American—anyone—he should know that the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. This is perfection of life.
idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
So if everyone says that "Original cause of my existence is Kṛṣṇa," this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It doesn't matter. Not that a brāhmaṇa... Brāhmaṇa is the mouth of Kṛṣṇa, and kṣatriya is the arm of Kṛṣṇa, and vaiśya is the belly of Kṛṣṇa, and śūdra is the leg of Kṛṣṇa. But do we distinguish that "Here is Kṛṣṇa's mouth, or head; all the flowers should be offered here, not to the leg"? Do we make any such distinction? When we worship Kṛṣṇa, rather, our first duty is to offer to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says that śūdra, in Bhāgavata says, śūdra is the leg. So there may be distinction of profession, occupation, caste, creed, color... It doesn't matter. But if everyone tries to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that "The original cause of my existence is Kṛṣṇa," then there is life... Life is perfect. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Not blindly, but by research work, that how the original cause is Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate BG 10.8 : "I am the original cause of everything. Everything emanates from Me." How can I deny that Kṛṣṇa is not cause? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore, those who are advanced devotee, he does not see anything else but Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa is the cause of everything. That is required. Therefore he's Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So we should not take anything neglectfully. Neither we should be careless to take care of Kṛṣṇa's property, Kṛṣṇa's living being, Kṛṣṇa's house, Kṛṣṇa's temple, Kṛṣṇa's business, Kṛṣṇa's... Everything Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat ISO mantra 1 . If we think like that, then that is perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ ISO mantra 1 . We may think, see varieties of things. It doesn't matter. But if we know that the original cause of this thing is Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection. We are seeing this table. It is wood. But if we know... It is a fact. You know or not know, that doesn't matter. The original cause is Kṛṣṇa. The microphone, the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. These karatālas, the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. This pitcher, original cause is Kṛṣṇa. Everything. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And it is fact. Not that we are imagining. Just like... Take, for example, these material things. Material things, this table. It is... How it is caused by Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca ISO mantra 1 . Bhūmi, this earth... Bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā: "That is My energy." So, so bhūmi, the earth, is the cause of the tree, wood, and the wood is the cause of this table. Therefore, originally, Kṛṣṇa is the cause of the table. There is no doubt about it. Anything you take. Either you take this wood or you take this water or this ether or chemical, the original cause is Kṛṣṇa.
Now, to be ascertained, education, that why it is called Kṛṣṇa is the origin. That is research work. How it has been...? Just like I give you the hint of research work that, Kṛṣṇa says that "The earth is my energy, separated energy." And earth is the cause of the wood. And wood is the cause of the fire. Fire is the cause of melting... So many, so many. You can go. So idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ...kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. Describe the attributes of Kṛṣṇa. You can write. Just like you can write volumes of books on this table. If you are intelligent enough, you can make research work on the table. But in that research work, conclude that Kṛṣṇa is the origin. A carpenter can, he can write about Kṛṣṇa, if he's thoughtful. Anyone. Therefore it is said, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. Whatever your profession is there, you know that the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. Now make research work and find out how Kṛṣṇa is the original cause. That is education. That is wanted. Am I right?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So everyone can write books. Everyone wants to write books, wants to show some scholarship. Do it. But the conclusion should be that "Here is the original cause." And it is already said in the śāstra... Kṛṣṇa personally says that
ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māṁ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
This is budhāḥ. Those who are actually educated, they're called budhāḥ, in full knowledge.
So there are departmental knowledge. So by research work, when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything, then that is siddhānta. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaṛacā says that
siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa
ihā ha-ite kṛṣṇe lāge sudṛḍha mānasa
Siddhānta, conclusion, try to study. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the origin of everything." So whatever subject matter you have got, you study. Then when you come to this conclusion, "Yes, actually Kṛṣṇa is the original cause," then your devotion of Kṛṣṇa immediately increases. If you accept blindly Kṛṣṇa, that is one thing, another one thing. And if you study, make research work, and find out Kṛṣṇa is the original cause, then your love for Kṛṣṇa will increase. So this is required. This is required.
So this verse is very important thing. And everyone should make research work. But a devotee, one who has concluded, one who has perfectly known that Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything, he hasn't got to do anything. His business is finished. He doesn't require any more to go, undergo severe austerities to find out whether Kṛṣṇa is cause or not cause. Because he has already known. He has already known. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim [Nārada-pañcarātra] . No more tapasya. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But if you have got doubt, make research work. You'll have to come to the conclusion. But if you have concluded it, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything," then your business is finished. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But if you have got doubt, then do it. That is your business. Don't be blind. Either you accept here the words of Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the original cause of everything." That's all right. If you believe that "Kṛṣṇa says," it is all right. If you do not believe, then make the research and find out. That is perfection. In both ways you'll have to come to the...
Because the fact is fact. Either... Suppose somebody says, "Don't touch fire. It will burn your hand." If you accept it, your father's advice or your teacher's advice, "Don't touch fire," it is as good. And if you want to make research, "No, why shall I believe my father, my teacher. Let me experiment, touch," the result will be the same. Result will be the same. But if you want to make experiment, do it. But come to this conclusion, that Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything. Then your life is perfect.
Thank you very much.
Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa(?): ...translation... [break] ... Bhagavad-gītā... [break]
Dayānanda: ...Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Dayānanda: What is that... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...nice. I don't exactly... We have heard from authorities. There is no question of inquiring. What is the... Even if you don't quote, you can assert firmly that everyone is a śūdra. How? Now, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ BG 4.13 . Bhagavad-gītā says this classification is made, guṇa-karma. So what is the karma at the present moment? They're seeking service. The so-called education means seeking service, master. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam BG 4.13 . This is śāstra. Anyone who is attached to give service to others or, without giving service to others, he cannot live, that is, he's śūdra. He has no independent existence. Just like I was showing, the dog. Unemployed. Lean and thin and... Because he has no master. The same dog, when he has got a master, he'll be stout and strong, and he'll, as soon as you... "Owf! Owf! Bow! (laughter) I have got my master." So this is śūdra. Śūdra is compared with the dog. A dog is never happy without a master. Then it is a street dog. That is the difference between household dog and a street dog. So in this age practically you see, unless there is employment, he's a street dog. That is the proof that everyone is a śūdra. That is the proof.
Brahmānanda: Brāhmaṇa is not to accept any employment.
Prabhupāda: No. He'll die of starvation. He'll not accept any employment. That is brāhmaṇa. Kṣatriya also that, and vaiśya also. Only śūdra. A vaiśya will find out some business. He'll find out some business. So there is a practical story. One Mr. Nandi, long, long ago, in the Calcutta, he went to some friend that, "If you can give me a little capital, I can start some business." So he said, "You are vaiśya? Mercantile?" "Yes." "Oh, you are asking money from me? Money's on the street. You can find out." So he said, "I don't find." "You don't find? What is that?" "That, that is a dead mouse." "That is your capital." Just see.
So in those days plague in Calcutta, plague was going on. So municipal declaration was any dead mouse brought to the municipal office, he'll be paid two annas. So he took that dead body of the mouse and took to the municipal office. He was paid two annas. So he purchased some rotten betel nuts with two annas, and washed it and sold it at four annas, or five annas. In this way, again, again, again, that man became so rich man. One of their family members was our Godbrother. Nandi family. That Nandi family still, they have got four hundred, five hundred men to eat daily. A big, aristocratic family. And their family's regulation is as soon as one son or daughter is born, five thousand rupees deposited in the bank, and at the time of his marriage, that five thousand rupees with interest, he can take it. Otherwise there is no more share in the capital. And everyone who lives in the family, he gets eating and shelter. This is their... But the original, I mean to say, establisher of this family, Nandi, he started his business with a red, a dead rat, or mouse.
That is actually fact, actually fact, that if one wants to live independently... In Calcutta I have seen. Even poor class vaiśyas, and in the morning they'll take some ḍāl, bag of ḍāl, and go door to door. Ḍāl is required everywhere. So in morning he makes ḍāl business, and in evening he takes one canister of kerosene oil. So in the evening everyone will require. Still you'll find in India, they... Nobody was seeking for employment. A little, whatever he has got, selling some ground nuts or that peanuts. Something he's doing. After all, Kṛṣṇa is giving maintenance to everyone. It is a mistake to think that "This man is giving me maintenance." No. Śāstra says, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. It is confidence in Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa has given me life, Kṛṣṇa has sent me here. So He'll give me my maintenance. So according to my capacity, let me do something, and through that source, Kṛṣṇa's maintenance will come." Just like we are maintaining so many people in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So what business we are doing? But we are confident that Kṛṣṇa will send us our maintenance. That confidence required. A śūdra means he becomes disturbed. He becomes disturbed. "Oh, I have no employment. How shall I eat? Where shall I go? Where shall I live?" He has no faith in Kṛṣṇa. The brāhmaṇa has got full faith. The kṣatriya has got little less faith, the vaiśya, little less faith, and the śūdra has no faith. This is the difference.
So your question was that how we can know a śūdra? That because everyone is now faithless and everyone is seeking after employment. Therefore... We may discuss in so many ways. Because people have become śūdra, therefore the capitalists are exploiting them. If everyone denies to be, serve, then these so-called industries will fail. Immediately. That is Gandhi's proposal. "Noncooperate with the British government, and it will wind up." And actually so happened. Because people are now śūdras, they depend for their bread to others, the others exploit them: "Come here. You work and I shall give you bread." They do not believe any more, "O God, give us our daily bread." They think that "This, our master give us daily bread." That is śūdra. Śūdra means one who is dependent on others. Paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam. This is the description, definition of śūdra. And vaiśya: kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam BG 18.44 . The vaiśya is doing the kṛṣi, agriculture. Why he should depend on...? Take some land from the government. You produce your food. Where is the difficulty? Keep some cows. You get milk. Vaiśya-karma svabhāva... Go-rakṣya. If you have got excess, then make trade. Why you should depend on others?
But they do not know. They want that "I shall go at ten o'clock in the office, and I shall do nothing. Simply I shall take the pen and make like this and take my salary." That's all. Cheating. This is going on. Therefore the whole system is polluted. Nobody's doing his duty. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma... BG 4.13. According to one's quality, one must work. But nobody wants to work. So therefore they are śūdras. They are working, but at the care of somebody else. Not independently. Now the school, college, the teacher is also depending on salary. So they are śūdras. So what teaching they will give? Teaching is the business of the brāhmaṇa. No salary. Formerly, all the brāhmaṇas, they used to have that... It is called ṭola, catuṣpāṭhī. Catuṣpāṭhī. Brāhmaṇa, he'll sit down anywhere and invite that "If you like, you can come and take some teachings from me."
Brahmānanda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu did that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So still in villages you'll find, the brāhmaṇa is sitting somewhere, and the small children are coming, and they're bringing some presentation. Somebody's bringing rice, somebody ... And brāhmaṇa was satisfied, satisfied. "Whatever Kṛṣṇa sends, that's all right." This is brahminical qualification. He doesn't want more. There was a brāhmaṇa teacher in Kṛṣṇanagara. So the zamindar of Kṛṣṇa..., Rāja-kṛṣṇa-candra, he went that " Brāhmaṇa, what can I help you?" "No, I don't want your help." "No, you are... Your house is not very good, and your..." "No, I am quite satisfied." "How you are pulling on?" "No, I have got my students. They bring some rice. And here is a tamarind tree. My wife collects some leaves and boils it, and that becomes nice soup. And these boys bring some rice. I am quite satisfied."
[break] "...as your production is there, give me twenty-five percent. I'll give you protection." That is kṣatriya business. Brāhmaṇa's business, teaching. And vaiśya: till the field, agriculture, get your food. Now, where is dependence? Only a śūdra, he cannot take up all these things. "Give me some service, sir. Give me some service." In the modern education, they... The more and more industries increasing, there śūdras are being trained up. Technology. Technology means he must get some service. Otherwise, useless. Simple life, teaching, brāhmaṇa ; and kṣatriya, give protection; and vaiśya, till the ground. This is... Where is the question of scarcity? The scarcity is that nobody's doing his real duty. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ BG 4.13 . And people are exploiting. There is competition, dissatisfaction, fight. So many things, sinful activities. The whole society is polluted. Actually, the whole human society is now conducted by the śūdras. But śūdras cannot run on government. That is not possible. Because that śūdra, your Nixon, is a śūdra, he is exalted post, therefore everything is not in order.
Brahmānanda: Kṣatriyas should run the government?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Brahmānanda: And the brāhmaṇas should give advice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Vedic system. The brāhmaṇas would never take part in administration. They would give advice according to śāstra.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have a comment on that research.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You said that researches are all right, but there has to be a standard.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It has to be standardized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Research.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the business of the research scholar, how to make it standardized. Everything is standardized. Just like you have found the molecules, protons, and... They are working in a standardized way. They are not working whimsically there. There is standard process.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And what is that standard? What is that standard of research?
Prabhupāda: The standard is already there. Is not that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but...
Prabhupāda: Standard is already there. Kṛṣṇa has already made the standard. Our intelligence is to know how the standard has come.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we say that brahma-jijñāsā is a standard. Is that, is that...? Is that okay?
Prabhupāda: Brahma-jijñāsā means... Anything you take, it is working in a standard way. Just like the sun is rising. So the brahma-jijñāsā means how the sun is rising exactly in time? Who has made this rule? And in astronomy there is very fine calculation, one ten-thousandth part of a minute or something like that? I have heard from you scientists. They, they make calculation of the movement of the sun, that. In astrology also, the moment is calculated like that. If the exact moment is there, by mathematical calculation, he can give you the exact history of your whole life. This is standard, all standard. Niyamitaḥ. Yasyājñayā bhramati kāla-cakraḥ. There is, Brahma-saṁhitā says:
yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ
rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ
yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro
How exactly the sun and the moon and the planets, they are rotating? How? Yasyājñayā, by whose order? That Govinda, ādi-puruṣa, I offer my respectful... Everywhere you'll find the research.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the difference between the transcendentalists and the scientists is that they do not know the standard of research.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we say they are fools. Why do we say mūḍhāḥ ? Because they do not know. And our business is easy. We take Vedic version, Kṛṣṇa's version, Brahmā's version, Vyāsadeva's version, and accept. That's all. Which one is easiest? Our business is very simple. You ask your father... A child asks his father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "This is microphone, my dear child." And he will, "Mother, this is microphone." So when he says this "Mother, this is microphone," is he correct or not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he is.
Prabhupāda: He's correct. He may be child. But because he has accepted the words of his father, the statement is correct. So our process is that. Take the version of the authority, Kṛṣṇa, and you repeat it. Your version is perfect. This is our policy. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "You rascal scholar, philosopher, scientist, don't manufacture anything. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa CC Madhya 7.128 . That's all. You become master." Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa CC Madhya 7.128 . You become master. You can teach others. A spiritual master. That's all. And if, whatever little success I have got—only for this reason. I have never said anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa. I never said, "In my opinion." I never said. You are so many students. I never said that to you. What is my opinion? One should know, "What is the value of my opinion? I am imperfect being." This is called tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. If one thinks, "Oh, I am big scholar. I am this. I am that," you are rascal. You have to simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa. But for your understanding you can make research work.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the secret.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the secret.
yasya deve parā bhaktir
yathā deve tathā gurau
tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ
prakāśante mahātmanaḥ
If one has got unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and his representative, guru, then all the knowledge will be revealed to him automatically. Just like yourself. You are a big scientist. You have talked with me, you have studied with me, and you have examined me in so many ways. And I have also spoken whatever I had knowledge. Unless you are convinced, how you can say that "You are my spiritual master"? So what is the secret? I am not a scientist. I am not M.A., C.A How do you agree to accept me as spiritual master? Because I stick to this principle, Kṛṣṇa and guru, that's all. This is the secret of guru.
So today is Baladeva āvirbhāva. Baladeva, in the strength. Nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. You cannot understand, realize yourself without the help of Baladeva. Therefore in the Vedic literatures: nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. You cannot become self-realized without the help of, without the mercy of Baladeva. Now, our Vivekananda Swami, he interpreted that "Unless you become stout and strong like the bulls and the buffalo, you cannot realize self." He interpreted like that. So he engaged people to make gymnastics, exercise. "You become very stout and strong, eat meat, and..." This is going on. This philosophy is going on. Bala-hīnena... "Unless you become as strong as a tiger, you cannot realize yourself." This interpretation is going on. Bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. Therefore they are... Always they put this argument, that "Our countrymen is suffering. There is no food. First of all we must give them food, make them strong, stout. Then we shall talk about Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Do they not say like that?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is another nonsense. Bala-hīnena does not mean this physical strength. Bala-hīn... Bala, bala means spiritual strength, Baladeva. Baladeva is spiritual strength. Nityānanda. Balarāma haila nitāi.
Brahmānanda: Hīna, hīna. Bala-hīna?
Prabhupāda: Hīna means without. And bala means strength. So śāstra says, nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ: "One who is less strong, or one who has no support of the strength, then he cannot make any progress in spiritual self-realization." This is the Vedic injunction. So they interpret that unless you become physically strong, you cannot make any spiritual advancement. So...? But in the Western countries we have seen, so many people physically very strong, stout and strong. Practically everyone. But what is their self..., advancement in self-realization? So these things are going on. So bala means spiritual strength, not material strength. Nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. That means one must be spiritually strong. And that spiritually strong means to have good faith in Kṛṣṇa and guru. That is spiritual strength. Therefore Baladeva means guru, spiritual strength. Balarāma haila nitāi. Nitāiyer karuṇā habe... What is that song? Nitāiyer karuṇā habe vraje rādha-kṛṣṇa pābe. He is... "If there is mercy of Nitāi, then..." That Visansena(?), call him. (calls out to someone who is apparently leaving) Serji, aiye na? (Hindi)
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Aiye, sāheb.
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Aiye.
Indian: (Hindi) What is... What shall I do, coming?
Prabhupāda: Sit down. You can make some space. Aiye.
Indian: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: [break] ...the verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
idam hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
That everyone is situated in some business, occupation. So it is the duty of the person, never mind in whatever occupation he is engaged, uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam, to glorify the Supreme Lord. It doesn't matter whether he is a medical man or he is an engineer or a lawyer, or whatever he may be, politician... His only business is by his occupational duties to glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We do not advise that you change your place. There is no need of changing place. Sthāne sthitāḥ. This is the Brahmā's version. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You remain your, in your occupation, your position, but kindly hear. Therefore we have got so many śāstras, Vedic... Therefore the Vedic literature is known as śruti. One has to hear. But that education is lacking. Nobody is hearing the Vedic literatures. They are hearing so many other things, but not... Therefore Bhāgavata says, śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. Śrotavyādīni. The business is to hear.
But,
śrotavyādīni rājendra
nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ
apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ
gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām
Gṛheṣu. We are now compact in our home. You take universal home or your house home or this body home, we are within. So gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Because we have taken that the home business is everything. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. And who has taken like this? Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam SB 2.1.2 , one who cannot see the, "What is the value of my existence," ātma-tattvam. So for them, śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ SB 2.1.2 , they have got many things to hear. Here, of course, in India, we have got newspaper, four pages, five pages, but in the foreign countries, especially in America, they'll present newspaper, so big. Therefore there is paper scarcity. You see? Unnecessarily printing so much, huge quantity of newspapers. And people... Sometimes they do not touch it. The newspaper man throws in everyone's bungalow, and it is lying for three days. So who is going to read? But they are making their business because they get advertisement. In the... Many news. So they have got to hear or understand so many news, but not this Bhāgavatam. They'll devote the whole day for reading this newspaper or some fiction or some novels, for this and that. Some political talks and... But they have no time to hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. Apaśyatām ātma... Because they have no, no interest in self-realization. There is no interest. People have lost all interest. This is the position. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential at the present moment.
Now, these European and Americans, they have enough heard about all these nonsense. Therefore they are anxious to hear about self-realization.
śrotavyādīni rājendra
nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ
apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ
gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām
(Hindi) He was punishable. It was the duty of the government to see that "You are posing yourself as brāhmaṇa. Whether you are doing the duty of a brāhmaṇa? " If he's not doing, then he was punished. Therefore nobody was unemployed. A brāhmaṇa is doing his duty, kṣatriya's doing his duty, vaiśya his duty. We get this information from Mahārāja Pṛthu's kingdom. He, he was very strict, that whether one is doing his duty. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ BG 4.13 . If the brāhmaṇa is doing his duty, the kṣatriya is doing his duty, and vaiśya is doing his duty, then where is the unemployment? And it is the duty of the government to see that everyone is doing his duty.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Society means this combination of all these men. So if everyone is doing his duty, then it is quite all right. That is perfect society. Society means some combination of men. So if every man perfectly does his duty, then there is no question of imperfect...
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difficulty. That is the difficulty. That I was explaining, that at the present moment mostly persons, they are śūdras. Just like in your body there are four divisions. Your head division, your arm division, your belly division, and your leg division. And if you cut off everything, simply you keep the legs, then what will be done? So at the present moment there is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya. Maybe some vaiśyas only. Only śūdras. Therefore there is chaos. If the division is made, kept, as it is advised in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ BG 4.13 , according to guṇa and karma, then the society is maintained very nicely, properly. If your head is working nicely, if your arms are working nicely, if your stomach is working nicely, leg is working..., then you are fit. But if you have got only legs, and head, there is no head, there is no arm, then what is the...? Dead society.
So we are giving education at the present moment to become śūdras. Paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam BG 18.44 . To serve others. A brāhmaṇa will not serve anyone else. A kṣatriya will not serve anyone else. A vaiśya will not serve anyone else. Only the śūdras. So at the present moment we are giving śūdra education. Everyone is taking one application: "Give me some service." "No vacancy, sir." Therefore it is said, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra. And how you can have good government by the śūdras? Kṣatriya required. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. He was touring. As soon as he saw one man is killing cow, "Who are you, rascal, killing cow in my kingdom?" Kṣatriya. Give protection. Even to the cows. Prajā means one who has taken birth in that land. Why he should not be given protection? But because they are śūdras, they do not know what is the kṣatriya's duty, what is the government's duty. This is the position. Am I right or wrong?
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking according to our śāstras.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, no. In those days the whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa. Therefore it is called Mahābhārata.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That was not small. That was very big. Parīkṣit Mahārāja was going on tour because he was the emperor of the whole planet.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Now it is divided.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, that was another thing. That was for, fight for the right cause. Not for... It may be politically like that, but the division was there, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And the last, Kṛṣṇa's compromising plan was that "After all, they are kṣatriyas, these five brothers. They cannot take the business of a vaiśya or brāhmaṇa. So give them five villages so that they may be satisfied, ruling over these..." "No, not even land holding the upper portion of the needle." Then there was fight. Then there was fight.
So as far as possible... Of course, our, this movement is creating brāhmaṇas. People now require a brāhmaṇa, the head. Of course, we are not manufacturing anything. Everything is there. Everything is there in the śāstra. We do not invent anything. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ BG 16.23 . The, we, are trying to follow as far as possible, and we are teaching that, that whatever is there...
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: You are coming from Burdow?(?)
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Near Lucknow?
Indian: No.
Indian: Bareilly.
Prabhupāda: Bareilly. Oh.
Indian: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Oh. (end)