730719 - Conversation A - London
Prabhupāda: Tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ SB 12.13.1 . Paśyanti, this word is there. Yoginaḥ paśyanti they see. Dhyānāvasthita, by meditation.
Revatīnandana: This is the Sixth Chapter Bhagavad-gītā? Is that what you're quoting?
Prabhupāda: No, this is in Bhāgavata.
Revatīnandana: I see. But that seeing...
Prabhupāda: That seeing is not ānanda. Seeing is ānanda, undoubtedly, but seeing and talking and becoming friend, that is higher. Friend or conjugal lover, father, mother. That kind of seeing is different.
Revatīnandana: If that yogi quits his body in that condition, does he attain a Vaikuṇṭha planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: [break] Is it possible that if he was... This is a question that sometimes a devotee has asked me. If a yogi does attain a Vaikuṇṭha planet, but by his constitutional nature he is meant to be associated with Kṛṣṇa in Goloka...
Prabhupāda: No, why not with Viṣṇu. Vaikuṇṭha is Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. That is also... But there Nārāyaṇa is worshiped with awe and veneration. He is God. No friendship as in Vṛndāvana. That is not possible. Vipralambha-sakhya. Aiśvarya, aiśvarya, opulence. There the Supreme Lord is taken in aiśvarya, opulences. Not aiśvarya-sthiti. In Vṛndāvana the devotees, they practically do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. "He is our very beloved friend." That's all. They doesn't care to know whether He is God or not. Here the conception of God. Vaikuṇṭha, "Oh, here is God," with awe and veneration, respect.
Revatīnandana: That I understand. The question is suppose this yogi, he has not got full knowledge, he does not know of Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he is meditating on Paramātmā, and he attains Vaikuṇṭha. Is it possible that because he hadn't got full knowledge...
Prabhupāda: No, he has to go, simply by Paramātmā conception, he cannot go to Vaikuṇṭha.
Revatīnandana: Can he later go on from Vaikuṇṭha to Goloka? Can that happen also?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is such instances, can go.
Revatīnandana: But if a devotee knows Kṛṣṇa, if he knows of Kṛṣṇa, then wherever he is destined, he will go perfectly to his perfect position. Just like Bhīṣma knew Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Mad-yājino yānti mām. Kṛṣṇa devotees, they go directly, especially those who are worshiping Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They directly go to Kṛṣṇaloka.
Revatīnandana: What about like the case of Bhīṣmadeva where he knew about Kṛṣṇa in Goloka, and he went to Kṛṣṇa as Pārtha-sārathi.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... He understood Kṛṣṇa as Nārāyaṇa. He will go to Vaikuṇṭha, Bhīṣmadeva.
Revatīnandana: But he had full knowledge of everything as a mahājana. He knew also...
Prabhupāda: But he loved Nārāyaṇa, Catur-bhuja.
Revatīnandana: Yes, that was his constitutional position. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Just like sometimes mādhurya-rasa is the greatest humor...
Revatīnandana: Who?
Prabhupāda: Mādhurya-rasa, conjugal love. But still, there are devotees who prefer parental love, friendly love. That is liking. Everyone has got his own liking. But they are all the same, all the same. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa devotee and Nārāyaṇa devotee. They are all the... But it is their liking, varieties of liking.
Revatīnandana: Another related question that also arose... These come in Bhāgavata class with the devotees because they think about the questions and sometimes they come up with nice ones. When Kṛṣṇa is incarnating in His plenary incarnations like Varāha, Nṛsiṁha, like that...
Prabhupāda: That is in this material world.
Revatīnandana: Yes. And sometimes devotees become devoted to those forms. Are there corresponding planets in Vaikuṇṭha for those forms of incarnation? Is there a planet of Nṛsiṁha or Nṛsiṁha-loka in the Vaikuṇṭha sphere?
Prabhupāda: So far (I) know, those planets are here within this material world.
Revatīnandana: Wherever He is appearing.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Even Rāmacandra's. So far I have...
Revatīnandana: On all the Vaikuṇṭhas, Kṛṣṇa is in His catur-bhuja, four-armed form?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Revatīnandana: But those devotees will eventually go there. Those kind of devotees like devotees of Sītā-Rāma, they will also attain the spiritual sky in their various positions.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Revatīnandana: All right. Thank you very much. (offers obeisances)
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Jānakī: One is rice and the other baḍā.
Prabhupāda: What are there?
Jānakī: Milk, hot.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Jānakī: I think that other thing was not a good idea.
Prabhupāda: No, it was too cold.
Jānakī: Yes, it reduces heat. I will bring some hot pepper.
Prabhupāda: [break] ...is taking place. The rascal Darwin says that it is coming from monkey. Why the monkey does not produce a human being? All rascals. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Simply rascals. His name is Neiman?
Pradyumna: Couldn't get his last, Ruby something.
Prabhupāda: Ruby, that...
Pradyumna: He is a very nice gentleman. He appreciated Bhagavad-gītā. He said right away, very...
Prabhupāda: Yes...
Pradyumna: My wife's typing up all your lectures. She has finished L.A. lectures. Now she is typing Māyāpura lectures, this lecture, that lecture. She has permanent machine and typewriter and apartment. So she types all during the day and she minds the child. And then it is in the same apartment.
Prabhupāda: Attending class also?
Pradyumna: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Pradyumna: They live now across the street, in the temple apartments.
Prabhupāda: In our house?
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Pradyumna: Typing.
Prabhupāda: Now this house will facilitate our business. Just opposite the temple. So round about. Therefore I asked him, "Purchase these houses, purchase." Never mind. So that is not lost. They were paying rent elsewhere. They can pay here. We get our permanent tenants.
Pradyumna: Yes. All children live there too. It is very nice.
Prabhupāda: So these houses. Now we have got four or five houses. Two houses of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and three houses of M.V. Trust.
Pradyumna: It will be a city. It's so nice, all the children live there together. Next door there is Baladeva, that little boy with red hair. Aniruddha, he is blond hair and another boy with red hair, he is next door. He is best friend. They always play, all boys.
Prabhupāda: Hm. And in the front house, there is ample space back there for children's play. This will facilitate... Very nice. And then one house after, there is another house.
Pradyumna: Yes, up on the street, on our side of street.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Watseka. And that is Venice. On Venice we have got two house. The real estate men, they think of us—very, very rich. (laughs) After purchasing these houses. Here also, we can have very nice colony, in this village. There are so many land, houses are for sale. If we can organize. Now you utilize these lands for growing fruit, flower, anything, whatever you can grow. But utilize this land. It doesn't matter what you would grow, anything. Who will be in charge?
Devotee: Bhaja Hari. (?)
Prabhupāda: Bhaja Hari. Where is he?
Devotee: He is in his office downstairs.
Prabhupāda: Call him.
Devotee: Now? Right away?
Prabhupāda: He has come, Śyāmasundara?
Pradyumna: Śyāmasundara is here.
Prabhupāda: Get him also.
Pradyumna: The lady left her coat. Maybe she is still here. (end)