771011 - Conversation A - Vrndavana
Devotee: This is one introductory... "Bhaktivedanta Institute Lecture Series on the origin of life and matter, sponsored by Bhaktivedanta Institute."
Prabhupāda: Get this.
Devotee: Here is a copy...
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, I was given a copy also this morning.
Rūpānuga: This is a partial list of those who've been invited.
Dr. Kapoor: How many of these people are going to speak?
Rūpānuga: Svarūpa Dāmodara has invited a couple of opposing scientists to speak, also, so that we can discuss two points of view.
Dr. Kapoor: That's good.
Rūpānuga: Yes. A couple of important men. Also three of our GBC men have been invited to speak in informal discussion in the evening-Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, Haṁsadūta Mahārāja, and one other. I'm not sure.
Dr. Kapoor: Are these tulasī beads red-colored?
Rūpānuga: No, no. Very old beads.
Dr. Kapoor: What are they made of?
Rūpānuga: I don't know.
Dr. Kapoor: Not tulasī ?
Rūpānuga: No.
Brahmānanda: These are the original beads that we got in New York when Prabhupāda made the first initiations. There were no tulasī beads available in New York City.
Dr. Kapoor: No, I see. (laughs)
Rūpānuga: We went to a bead shop on 14th Street.
Dr. Kapoor: I see. (laughs)
Rūpānuga: Japanese beads.
Dr. Kapoor: That has some historic significance, yes.
Rūpānuga: Actually, they come out to be very long. Six feet.
Dr. Kapoor: You can now get tulasī beads from here, because it should really be tulasī and not any other thing. Japa-mālā.
Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda chanted on these, so...
Brahmānanda: Now they're tulasī.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) (pause) Prabhupāda seems to be slightly better today. He takes interest in other things and wants to speak.
Brahmānanda: You're feeling better today, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...syrup.
Dr. Kapoor: That syrup, he says, that has...
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Dr. Kapoor: Let us see. Apply the method of elimination. Eliminate the syrup today and see what the effect is.
Brahmānanda: Syrups have made some difficulty?
Dr. Kapoor: Syrups, he says they seem to be somewhat intoxicating.
Brahmānanda: These are by the allopathic or...
Dr. Kapoor: Must be allopathic, because the syrups are tonics. Every tonic has that effect partly.
Prabhupāda: Only work... The kavirāja's strong medicine... I think that... On the whole, the condition is not better.
Dr Kapoor: That I think is due to the syrups, you see. The intoxicating effect can be of the syrups only. Because in allopathic there is some alcohol mixed always. So let us eliminate that today and see how the Āyurveda medicine alone works. Nothing intoxicating in the Ayurvedic medicine.
Brahmānanda: I know one of the medicines had twenty-five percent caffeine.
Dr. Kapoor: Ayurvedic?
Brahmānanda: No. The allopathic.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh. Allopathic. The syrup that was brought.
Brahmānanda: One of them. Upendra was saying.
Dr. Kapoor: Let us stop that today.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, the nature of the conference, how do you like?
Brahmānanda: How do you like, on the whole, the nature of the conference?
Dr. Kapoor: It's a good idea. It should be... The conference should be interesting at least. (laughs)
Brahmānanda: You're coming?
Dr. Kapoor: I'll try to come. My wife has been ailing, so I'll try to find time and come.
Brahmānanda: Begins on Friday in the morning.
Dr. Kapoor: Friday in the morning. No, three days perhaps.
Brahmānanda: Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Rūpānuga: Ten-thirty Friday, it begins. About 10:30 in the morning.
Prabhupāda: All bona fide scientists.
Dr. Kapoor: Yes. It should be a very representative gathering if they all come.
Brahmānanda: He's expecting ninety to come.
Dr. Kapoor: Ninety to come, oh. Then it will be a grand success.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...theory, they are doing nonsense. Vivekananda's theory, Darwin's theory... Who is that Ram? Ramakrishna's theory. Another. What is that Ram?
Brahmānanda: Another Ram?
Dr. Kapoor: Ram-tirtha.
Prabhupāda: Ram-tirtha. Without life, life coming is bogus. Darwin's theory. Have all been discussed?
Brahmānanda: In this booklet? I haven't see it.
Dr. Kapoor: The most wonderful thing is that they say life comes from matter, and they don't know what matter is. They don't know what matter is. They confess, "We don't know what matter is." Yet they say life comes from matter. Not one scientist till today has been able to say what matter is. Rather, they have confessed, "I know not what matter is." Even the biggest scientists, they have made this confession.
Prabhupāda: And a person from whom life is coming, He says aham ādir hi. And they will not come. Where is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Hari-śauri: He's in a BBT Trustee's meeting right now, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Now, whatever direction...
Brahmānanda: Prabhupāda was saying that one of the medicines has made some intoxicating...
Upendra: He hasn't taken any medicines or any of the syrups that the previous doctor recommended. Just...
Brahmānanda: Nothing from the allopathic.
Upendra: No. We've given him this morning protein, liquid protein, one spoonful in the juice he drank. You're talking about this morning? And yesterday we gave him glucose and one spoonful of Liquiline Natural Herb.
Brahmānanda: So no allopathic medicine were given?
Upendra: No. Nor were they recommended. They were just... If you want to call them allopathic nutrients... No medicines.
Dr. Kapoor: No, but were those syrups given?
Upendra: No.
Bhavānanda: What was given yesterday?
Upendra: Yesterday the bhinbukshu (?) cream. Yes, that was given, the green bottle and the bottle up there. Yesterday barley water in the morning with a little bit of Complan. And after that, some cough developed, and then the doctor came and gave some of that medicine with musumbi(?) juice.
Brahmānanda: Which medicine?
Upendra: The Ayurvedic. The vaidya. He had grape, glucose and whey. Then he had this vitamin here, this one. Then he had some more medicine with musumbi juice, and that was it yesterday.
Hari-śauri: This is vitamins.
Rūpānuga: It doesn't say there's any alcohol in it.
Upendra: There isn't... They're Shaklee products.
Rūpānuga: One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, after fasting for a long time, even some sugar, even sweets make intoxication in the system. Glucose and the sweet juices, fruit juices, this may make a little intoxication.
Upendra: Yes, this morning he had grape, glucose and one spoonful of that instant protein. That would have been really energetic.
Dr. Kapoor: This bottle is pure vitamins or something else?
Brahmānanda: Yes. There's no...
Dr. Kapoor: No alcohol.
Brahmānanda: No.
Rūpānuga: Mādhava, can you explain to Śrīla Prabhupāda who the speakers are?
Mādhava: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Svarūpa Dāmodara has invited scientists from Delhi University...
Brahmānanda: Who will speak? Who will be the speakers?
Mādhava: I think Dr. Mishra is coming to speak, and Dr.... Is that R.K.? R.K... I haven't spoken to him myself. He's going to be speaking on Sunday.
Brahmānanda: What are these cards?
Dr. Kapoor: Where is he from?
Mādhava: He's from Delhi University, I believe. He's from the AIIMS, the All-India Institute of Medical Science. He's head of the biophysics department. There was a Dr. Kavoor, I believe his name was. Kavoor?
Brahmānanda: From Shree Lanka.
Mādhava: No, no. That was... (laughter)
Jayādvaita: He can be invited to be kicked with shoes.
Mādhava: Maybe it was Kival. No, here it is, Kapil. He's from Delhi University. He's in the botany department. He's going to speak.
Rūpānuga: Then there's some opposing.
Mādhava: There's one... Yes. I think it was Dr. Mishra who was going to give some ideas of his own that were a little different from ours.
Dr. Kapoor: Doctor Mishra from Delhi University. Physics department.
Mādhava: Yes. Biophysics. He was going to give a talk on the theory of living states.
Dr. Kapoor: Are any of those people from the philosophy department of Delhi University, are they going to speak?
Mādhava: There was some coming from the philosophy department, but I don't think they're going to speak. There was one who's going to speak on the limitations of science. I don't know if his name is listed here. Oh, yes, here it is, Dr. Ramaya. He's going to speak on the limitations of scientific method.
Dr. Kapoor: Is he a philosopher or a scientist? Biochemistry.
Prabhupāda: We are concerned with the scientists.
Brahmānanda: Yes, these are all scientists. They're philosophers?
Mādhava: This one philosopher is coming.
Dr. Kapoor: Ah, no, but is any of the philosophers going to speak?
Mādhava: No.
Dr. Kapoor: So you'll not go to the root of the problem, you see. It will be something superficial.
Mādhava: We consider the philosophers to be superficial. They have no evidence to back up their words.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughing) That can be a subject for discussion by itself. All the modern scientists are taking to philosophy, because there comes a stage in scientific investigation, you see, where you cannot but philosophize. You see?
Mādhava: Yes. But the philosophers cannot continue in their own speculations.
Dr. Kapoor: What is philosophy? Philosophy is not thinking in that form. Philosophy is systematic thinking. It is systematic thinking. The scientists must be systematic.
Prabhupāda: The scientists... Without systematic, how it is science?
Dr. Kapoor: Yes. And the science is basically unsystematic in the fact that it starts with certain assumptions which by itself is unscientific. Why should you start with certain assumptions? Philosophy does not commit that. Philosophy... I don't raise the questions. You see? Why do you believe that matter is ultimate? Why do you believe that spirit and time are ultimate? Science believes in assumptions. Philosophy has not taken that for granted. Very systematic thinking. Therefore I say you'll not go to the root of the matter. It will be just superficial thing.
Mādhava: We are trying to apply both.
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, both. As a matter of fact, there is no watertight compartment. They're not simply a part of each, then. They're dovetailed. Science penetrates into philosophy, you see?
Rūpānuga: But the root of the problem practically is whether life comes from matter and matter comes from life, and that is the basic theme...
Dr. Kapoor: That is the basic theme, but the philosopher will ask the question, "You must first be very clear in your mind about these basic concepts, What is life and what is matter?" You may have some idea about life. Because we are life ourselves, we have some experience, some idea of life. But what is matter? No scientist has any clear conception of matter.
Prabhupāda: Matter has no consciousness.
Brahmānanda: But matter has no consciousness.
Dr. Kapoor: Matter has no consciousness, but what exactly it is? And you see, I tell you, matter has no consciousness—this is also an assumption. You see? The analysis of matter has revealed to the scientist, the physicist, that what remains in the ultimate analysis is at least not matter.
Prabhupāda: Matter, when you combine together, reveals some reaction. That's all.
Brahmānanda: When you combine matter together, it just gives some reaction.
Dr. Kapoor: True, but the question remains...
Prabhupāda: Just like soda, acid and soda. Mix together. There will be effervescence. That is matter. And life means gives impetus: "Do this." It is not comparable(?) thing.
Upendra: Time for giving him this juice, so... [break]
Prabhupāda: A child can speak sensibly, "Mother, give me this." But soda, alkaline and acid, mixed, it can give some dead effervescence.
Dr. Kapoor: Matter can produce matter only.
Prabhupāda: That's all. It has no sense.
Dr. Kapoor: Another form of matter, that is all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: Matter cannot produce life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. A third matter. That is matter. You can take matter and... Tejo-vāri-mṛd-vinimayam. Mix earth with water, and put it into fire and then make a building. But matter automatically cannot do it. This is...
Dr. Kapoor: Yes. It's mind that manipulates matter.
Prabhupāda: Matter cannot have mind, neither consciousness nor impetus.
Dr. Kapoor: But this philosophical discussion strains you, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Brahmānanda: He's saying you are strained by this philosophical discussion you're having.
Prabhupāda: No. It is nonsense that matter gives life. That we want to prove. Matter has no... Matter, I have studied it. Life is superior energy. Apareyam. This matter is useless. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ manaḥ BG 7.4 . They are inferior. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtim. Another, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat BG 7.4 . This is actually governing the whole universe. They have defied this apareyaṁ me prakṛ..., parām. They have not accepted. The scientists are speculators, most of them. Philosopher means materially thinking.
Brahmānanda: Materially...
Prabhupāda: Thinking.
Dr. Kapoor: So I think I should take leave, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Dr. Kapoor: If I stay on, we'll continue to speak.
Brahmānanda: So they are getting now free transportation. "For all invited guests-food, lodging, and transportation between Delhi and Agra, and the conference site will be arranged free of charge." So these are all confirmations, people's signatures.
Dr. Kapoor: I see.
Prabhupāda: Who is giving free?
Brahmānanda: We are giving free transportation, lodging and food.
Dr. Kapoor: Free transportation from Delhi. Not from other places.
Brahmānanda: No, just Agra and Delhi. I think everyone is invited from these two places. These have been mailed in or our men have gone?
Mādhava: They have been mailed in.
Brahmānanda: These are mailed replies. These have been posted invitations.
Mādhava: They expect about 150 people altogether.
Dr. Kapoor: Anyway, it's going to be an interesting thing, the first of its kind in Vṛndāvana.
Brahmānanda: This is the first conference you've had?
Mādhava: Yes.
Brahmānanda: It's the first in the world.
Rūpānuga: First time.
Dr. Kapoor: First in the world. (laughs)
Brahmānanda: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break] Ātreya Ṛṣi and Parivrājakācārya Swami are here.
Hari-śauri: They brought you a big plate of fruits and things, from Tehran.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: This is sweet lemon.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It is sweet lemon. The juice is very sweet.
Prabhupāda: Now give me.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: These are plums. They could be skinned and the drink is very good for you, soft.
Upendra: Juice comes from them?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. It's very, very good for digestion.
Prabhupāda: Sit down.
Parivrājakācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This is a pre-publication copy of our first magazine in Persian language.
Prabhupāda: This is Persian language?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Parsi, Parsi.
Brahmānanda: This is the name of it here?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. The name is " Bhakti ."
Prabhupāda: I understand that you go to the royal family and talk with them for hours. So it is very good sign.
Parivrājakācārya: Yes. There's... Some people in their family are very good, and they're very interested in learning about Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They can do... They can do very good things for the world if they simply have knowledge of what to do. So we're trying to preach to intelligent people.
Prabhupāda: Yes, intelligent. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ BG 3.21 . What intelligent man takes up, so ordinary man, ordinary generally follow. Bhagavad-gītā is meant for rājarṣi, not for foolish. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ BG 3.21 . Not for a so-called loafer class. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham. That is being mistaken. Bhagavad-gītā should be taught to such royal family, and if they take up, others will take up. Hm? Ātreya Ṛṣi?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Do you follow?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: This is a good chance that you have got, a connection with royal family, and if you turn them to saintly, then the work is successful. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam BG 4.1 . Not that third-class foolish can understand what is Bhagavad-gītā . The same building I went to see?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Jaya. That building now is a restaurant. We have many people every night come and take prasādam . About seventy to a hundred people come.
Prabhupāda: What do you supply?
Hari-śauri: What do you supply?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We give them one thāli -two vegetables, ḍāl, rice, salad...
Prabhupāda: One thāli ?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: One full thāli .
Hari-śauri: Plate.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Thāli of prasādam . And sweet. And then we give them some herbal tea and dessert and sometimes fruits.
Prabhupāda: They like it.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They like it very much. Nandarāṇī Prabhu and Dayānanda Prabhu are managing.
Prabhupāda: They are both intelligent.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. They are working very hard.
Prabhupāda: And they are very sincere. What do you charge?
Parivrājakācārya: About sixteen rupees, fifteen tomands(?). It is very little price. It's very small.
Prabhupāda: For one plate?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: One plate. Very reasonable price. But many people give donations. And many of them take the books. We have your books. They take, and they read it, and they love it.
Prabhupāda: Success.
Hari-śauri: What kind of people do you get?
Prabhupāda: High class.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Higher class. Very intelligent, educated...
Prabhupāda: The low class, they purchase that big ruṭi. (laughs) That's all.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Big cāpāṭi.
Prabhupāda: They cannot come to the restaurant.
Parivrājakācārya: No.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Some people even come, higher class people, and work. They give their service in the restaurant. They wash dishes. They serve tables. We engage them in bhakti-yoga.
Brahmānanda: What's the name of the restaurant?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Govinda.
Prabhupāda: So you make good profit.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda chuckles) They respect you a lot in Tehran. The royalty respects you. The businessmen respect you. They really respect Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Persian civilization, very high, Aryan civilization.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: There was this Persian boy who was translating Bhagavad-gītā. He had come with me last month to Vṛndāvana to have your darśana. Then you had gone to London.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, things are going nice-slow but sure. You have got this Persian civilization and he has got the African civilization. (laughter) Black and white.
Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) [break] ...coming with the report of Persia and...
Hari-śauri: He's saying he's very much pleased when you gave the report of Persia.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: You should come and visit us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I am ready to go immediately.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya . You will come, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are millions of people waiting for you.
Prabhupāda: And now you have to take a bundle of bones. That is the difficulty. There is nothing... Bundle of bone.
Bhakti-caru: Bone or flesh, your body is divine, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Bone is being separated from life. Here, by example, the matter is different from life. Matter is inferior; life is superior. From my life you can... Why the Persian people love me?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They respect your philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They understand the philosophy. They respect the philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They respect chanting. They see that your boys are pious and they're chanting the names of God and they're doing wonderful things, and they respect it. They see your books, wonderful philosophy, always glorifying God. They respect God. They're religious.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And they know that nobody else is doing this.
Prabhupāda: Persians, they are Aryans. When they were attacked by the Muhammadans they fled from Persia to India. [break]
Ātreya Ṛṣi: ...and they come regularly. Some of them come every night to take prasādam, respectful, very nice Parsis who have come back from India to Iran.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Some of them gone there.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. They have come back because there are very good jobs, and government is encouraging them to come back. So they come back.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And actually Persians have very high philosophy, but they don't have no one who will engage them in devotional service. And the most intelligent ones see that you are actually engaging people in devotional service. And there is no one—no one in Iran-despite their high philosophies, who is engaging anybody in devotional service. So they see the results, and that's why they respect you.
Prabhupāda: So as soon as I get opportunity, I shall go and meet them.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]
Prabhupāda: Very good chance.
Parivrājakācārya: These people, they are the door to people all over the world who are rulers, because they are the closest friends of King Khalid(?) of Saudi Arabia, King Hussein of Jordan, King Constantine and Queen Tina of Greece. They know all over the world this whole set of rulers who have great opulence and great intelligence and who simply lack spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Guidance.
Parivrājakācārya: They lack guidance. They lack brāhmaṇas. Instead, they have cunning ministers who simply want to have the same opulences as they have. But these are the people. They can change the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Parivrājakācārya: If we can only give them philosophy, they can do the...
Prabhupāda: Rāja. And if we turn them ṛṣi, then our mission is fulfilled. Very good. Now you have started your own business.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. With your blessing. The business is not important, but it is a medium for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. My secretary is already a devotee, and the other people are also becoming interested. The goal is to have a Kṛṣṇa conscious group working in the society.
Prabhupāda: Go very slowly. Never mind. You all young men. All right. Go on chanting. [break]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: What meeting is going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We had two meetings today. One meeting was the BBT meeting for the completion of the Bombay project. And then another meeting was about our community Gītā-nagarī. Describing how it will be... Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja has come with his brother, who's the architect. And we're having a meeting for planning this ideal community very exactly, everything. The people present at the meeting are Bhavānanda Mahārāja and Paramānanda, Vāmanadeva, Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja, Tripurāri Mahārāja, Balavanta, Rūpānuga. All these people have experience with..., you know, like Bhavānanda in Māyāpura. Balavanta has two farms, Rūpānuga, all of these people. In other words, we're just trying to plan out... And Surabhī Mahārāja. And Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja's brother is an architect. In fact I've just been told that his architectural firm is the same one that's designing the... What is that? Designing a big thing in Tehran for the Shah of Iran. It's a very big architectural firm. So we're just trying to plan a very ideal community. We don't want to make a hodgepodge of it. I mean it should be so ideal that it becomes one of the most wonderful preaching tools for our movement, to show that "Here is an ideal community based upon Vedic principles, and it's perfect in every respect." So it takes a little cooperative thought and planning. That's why we've invited so many people to sit in the meeting.
Prabhupāda: I was very happy when I heard, respectable gentlemen, out of love, they are washing dishes. You know that? Ātreya Ṛṣi told me.
Hari-śauri: Yes. In Iran. Some important people in Iran, just out of some... To do some service, they're even going in the restaurant and assisting by washing the dishes, and they're bringing things here and there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's really devotional.
Prabhupāda: They are so gentle.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what we're feeling with this community also, that actually people will become so much impressed with this wonderful way of life that they'll want to take part voluntarily. If something is done very nicely, if Kṛṣṇa consciousness is presented very nicely, then any gentleman will want to take part.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is good. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people will come to this community to see how it is done. I think it will become very, very important in many different respects—for farmers, for people who are interested in designing ideal communities, for so many people who would like to live an ideal life, for people who want to come and see a unique place to visit, because there will be a temple of Kṛṣṇa-Arjuna there, a doll exhibit. I think it can be a wonderful preaching opportunity. And most wonderful of all is if we can exhibit self-sufficiency, that simply by farming the land, we can get enough grains, and taking care of the cows, we can get enough good foods to keep the body healthy. We can produce our own clothing. This is very much needed in this age. It's a positive alternative to artificial civilization. And the center will be Kṛṣṇa. All of the different activities and varṇas will be demonstrated, and all the different āśramas will be ideally being lived by the different devotees. People will see everything that they're doing is here but in its pure form and everyone working happily and cooperatively together. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in order for it to really work you have to come there, to be very honest. I know it will never be there unless you come and stay with us there and just show us and teach us. 'Cause I've seen practically that although everything is already written, Your Divine Grace has had to come and show personally a little bit, "Do like this; do like that." As the ācārya, you have adjusted everything perfectly to suit the situation of the present day and age. No one else could do that, none of your Godbrothers. No one in India could ever do that except you. So you are required. Everything is there, but you are also..., you have to be there. Otherwise I don't know if it's actually possible. And it's very important. You have to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're prepared to stay with you—all of the devotees feel this way—to encourage you to get better. Our plans are there, we're there, but we need you. You have to be there with us to guide us. I think that this disease is simply Kṛṣṇa testing our actual..., our love for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so that we will learn that we fully need you, 'cause actually we do. Everything we've done in this movement you've guided us with. We're realizing that you have to continue to guide us. We're not self-realized. We simply are able to carry out your instructions. So we have nothing else to do but to be with you here until you get healthy again and then lead us. This is our business now—to be with you. It seems like there are so many opportunities now that are beginning to present themselves. When you first went to the West there was nothing at all, and you created a whole world of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And now the public is beginning to actually take a real interest in our movement and people, respectable people from all over the world, are coming forward to want to help our movement. So there's a great facility that's available now even more than ten years ago. So if we've made so much progress in ten years, in another ten years there's no way to measure how much our movement can be expanded. And we're all just ready to follow each one of your directions. You don't have to tax yourself by... You can just talk to us and tell us, and we'll act. And we're very happy. In the meantime, we will give you the medicine of hari-nāma.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is real medicine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that our being here and chanting before you is spreading this movement, because the more we chant, the more love and dependence we develop for you, and that's making us strong in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and therefore our movement is getting stronger. Every day that we stay here, we become stronger in our devotion for you and dependence on you. (pause) I think that I should just tell them to end their meeting now. They're waiting for me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then I'll come back in a little while and chant. Actually you have to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has built this palace. It's only meant for you. We were seeing pictures of it today. It is so beautiful. It is exactly the place that you want to retire in and translate. And this community of Gītā-nagarī will be just proper place to give direction how to establish nice spiritual community. These two places are very close to each other-New Vrindaban and Gītā-nagarī. They're only three hours away from each other. Two very good communities for showing the example how to spread ideal Vedic life. We were discussing that actually it is not anything new that Kṛṣṇa can make His devotee better, because we were reading before in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta how sometimes Lord Caitanya would bring back to life someone who had even expired. And His associates were able to do that. And there is many cases. I think if we are very determined, then Kṛṣṇa will surely fulfill our desire.
Prabhupāda: Without fail.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Without fail.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without fail. And I can see even though this is a difficult time, actually it's still very sublime, because... This is wonderful, that all of your senior disciples are coming and we're all chanting and you're hearing and we're hearing. And actually it's a very wonderful... Even though it's critical, it's very wonderful, because we're all chanting the holy name. And then gradually Kṛṣṇa will answer our prayers. And in the meantime we're becoming purified by chanting like this, and you're pleased by hearing our chanting. Most people, when they are ill, everything is very horrible. But this is very different. It's all spiritual. So we're very satisfied. Of course, we want you to get better immediately. But still, as long as it takes, we're very satisfied to remain chanting and expecting Kṛṣṇa's mercy at every moment. Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'll come back in a little while, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'll just end that meeting. [break]
Girirāja: I had a very wonderful meeting with the chairman of the bank. And he's ready to do anything to satisfy us and keep our business. So he said that he was going to get rid of the man who is on this counter, Mr. Gupta, and give us some more young, dynamic, cooperative person to be in charge over here. And we completed the formalities for transferring the fixed deposits to the main branch, and he assured me that it was a completely routine transaction and that if the local people tried to do anything to stop it, that he would himself personally see that it went through smoothly. So I gave them the certificates. It was not necessary to sign them. We just gave the certificates, and they gave us a receipt. And they're going to endorse the certificates. So they are payable from New Delhi instead of from Vṛndāvana, and then we can go and collect them. And the chairman also called the assistant general manager. He was also very nice and very sympathetic. So he's going to come on Saturday, and he's going to look into everything, all the difficulties here. And I said that he could bring his family and they could take prasādam. So they're all going to be coming on Saturday at about eleven o'clock. I had submitted a letter with eleven things that we wanted. You know, we want the hours to be regular, we wanted a new person here, we wanted our interest on time—just a list of different things. And he said that there's no problem, and they're just ready to do whatever we want. They gave the impression that they would dismiss any number of people here that were giving us trouble. But I said that I thought that the main person was this Mr. Gupta, and so they said they would replace him. It was very good. But still, even if there are improvements here, I think it's better to keep the fixed deposits in New Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Girirāja: Because they are the responsible people, the big city, cosmopolitan, and these small towns there's always danger.
Prabhupāda: So certificate must be transferred there.
Girirāja: Yes. We've given them the certificates and the letter, and they've taken the responsibility. They're sending the certificates by registered post to the Vṛndāvana people with their instructions to transfer the money to New Delhi. So those will definitely reach here by Saturday when the assistant general manager comes. And if there's any hesitation, the assistant general manager will take care of it when he's here on Saturday. And I would think that by Monday or Tuesday we could get the certificates changed officially. And then, I think, we should have a least one account in their main branch in New Delhi. It would probably be easier to get inward remittances there. And if we want the interest from the fixed deposits to be kept there, we can have an account there for that. And that will keep us in good contact with the head office.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Hm. [break]
Lokanātha: No books in India have such beautiful illustrations. Everyone appreciates. So far, we had small books, but now we have Bhāgavatam. We have Teachings of Lord Caitanya in Hindi. They are purchasing. And all those who purchase books will definitely read your books. So far, we were giving big books to life members, free, towards their donation, but not many of them were reading. Some of them were reading. But now those who purchase books by paying money, they definitely will read. Because they have a liking for reading, so they will read. And our sales are increasing. Hindi books are being sold more and more.
Prabhupāda: Where is Upendra?
Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Upendra? If I sit down like this, between the two loins, I... It gives me pain.
Upendra: In the lower spine?
Abhirāma: That's that sore.
Upendra: What about that pillow, that round pillow?
Abhirāma: The bigger one is...
Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Do you remember that little round pillow with the hole in the center? Do you think that would help? No. It's... You put it... Or if you lean.
Prabhupāda: That part, if I sit down too long, that part gives me pain.
Upendra: Then you can lay..., sit up for maybe five minutes sometime, and again in the afternoon for five minutes, little time, and then we can lay you down now if you like. We don't have to keep you up for real long. But just the sitting up helps a little bit, and then, when there is some discomfort, too much, then we can lay down again. (end)