770628 - Conversation D - Vrndavana
Bhakti-Prema: You like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-Prema: Yes, it is nicer.
Prabhupāda: That I have seen. I told him in Switzerland. Yes. From Switzerland they'll...
Bhakti-Prema: So big mountain.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-Prema: And he took (indistinct) in other planets?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-Prema: The same with this Meru Mountain, it spreads...
Prabhupāda: They cannot explain what is that. But I have seen it. Where it has gone, nobody knows. Just see. Down, hundred miles, and up... You cannot see more than hundred... But it appears like the instruction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Jambūdvīpa, part of Jambūdvīpa. That is Ilāvṛta-varṣa in the square. We have... These mountains are each two thousand yojanas high.
Bhakti-Prema: After Mandara Meru, Mandara, that Mandara Mountains... And here he began to meditate. He meditated for six thousand years on this Mandara Mountain here. Then Pārvatī came, and she... Then next... These two mountains are like (describes sketch of planetary system, very difficult to hear) And here is the beautiful Indu stream(?). And it's heart is... Eight hundred miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is it?
Bhakti-Prema: On the Mandara Mountain. There are four different streams. This is Ilāvṛta-varṣa.
Yaśodānandana: This area?
Bhakti-Prema: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Śivaloka? Śivaloka?
Bhakti-Prema: Yes, it is not actually Śivaloka, but residence of Lord Śiva.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of his... He described it that like during the summertime you go to a hill station. Each demigod has their place where they also go.
Bhakti-Prema: Śivaloka is different, but Lord Śiva is...
Prabhupāda: Summer residence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why not? If a man can have summer residence, Lord Śiva...
Bhakti-Prema: Actual residence is in Satyaloka. Brahmā is there in Satyaloka. That means 2,200,000,000 miles away from sun planet.
Prabhupāda: That... Then it is universe.
Bhakti-Prema: Yes, in the universe. It is very high.
Prabhupāda: And where is that cakra ?
Bhakti-Prema: Cakra?
Prabhupāda: That polestar, center?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be in another...
Bhakti-Prema: We will give another picture.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This picture only shows mainly part of Jambūdvīpa and especially Ilāvṛta-varṣa, the middle of...
Prabhupāda: So Brahmaloka is in Jambūdvīpa?
Bhakti-Prema: No, no, no. Brahmaloka is in Satyaloka.
Prabhupāda: Oh, then what is this?
Bhakti-Prema: This is Mount Meru.
Prabhupāda: But you said Brahmaloka.
Bhakti-Prema: Brahmapurī.
Prabhupāda: Brahmapurī, that.
Bhakti-Prema: Summer residence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The middle part.
Bhakti-Prema: And then there are eight different residences of different loka-pālas, Indra, Agni, Varuṇa...
Prabhupāda: Summer residence.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, on top of Meru, like a hill station. (laughter)
Bhakti-Prema: You won't find many even like a (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: And they simply find rocks and sand. How nonsense...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because that's all there is in Arizona.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is... Do it nicely, carefully.
Bhakti-Prema: So scientists cannot try to realize the height of this mountain...
Prabhupāda: Not advised.
Bhakti-Prema: They come just here.
Prabhupāda: I have seen. They can go little higher than that earth. That's all. They cannot go even that peak. As soon as they go, finished.
Bhakti-Prema: This is more than six lakhs' miles from the earth, the height of Mount Meru.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The airplane goes about eight miles. Five thousand feet equals one mile. And they go forty thousand. So how much is forty thousand? Eight miles.
Devotee (1): Forty thousand feet divided by five means approximately eight miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Airplane goes eight miles high, and this Meru Mandapa(?) is 800,000 total, a hundred thousand yojanas, one lakh of yojanas. So this is very high, nearly 600,000 miles high. An airplane only goes five miles.
Devotee (1): Eight miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have no idea about distances.
Bhakti-Prema: If we rise above, man, six thousand miles, then we will arrive at sun planet.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-Prema: And then more, eight lakhs miles, that means moon planet.
Prabhupāda: Then miles? They could not explain why Sunday first.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. That question stumps.
Prabhupāda: Common sense. Sunday, Monday. Sunday. Sun must be first. Then... This is my commonsense interpretation.
Yaśodānandana: You have written in Bhāgavatam like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And these rascals say moon first.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, previously we painted in the art department... Just like Varāha lifted the earth, and the earth was a globe, and we showed also a globe of the earth. How does that relate to this? Previously, when we painted, we showed the earth a ball. So now the artists will be very confused. How it fell in the Garbha Ocean as a ball?
Yaśodānandana: It depends on what we mean by earth. The Western conception of earth is just five continents and a few oceans, but according to Bhāgavatam, earth means Jambūdvīpa, because earth is connected with Jambūdvīpa.
Devotee (2): So whole Jambūdvīpa fell.
Bhakti-Prema: Bhāgavata describes the height of Himalayas, eighty thousand miles.
Prabhupāda: No, about this earth globe.
Bhakti-Prema: About the earth it describes four billion miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means Jambūdvīpa.
Bhakti-Prema: No, that means complete earth, four billion miles. That is eight lakhs miles, Jambūdvīpa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four billion is the universe.
Bhakti-Prema: Bhū-maṇḍala.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhū-maṇḍala. Oh, the Bhāgavatam describes Bhū-maṇḍala as earth.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Yaśodānandana: Bhūmi.
Bhakti-Prema: ...has come right from the ocean, from the bottom of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: So explained there. Then this question is solved.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The whole Bhū-maṇḍala fell.
Bhakti-Prema: So the universe is round, and from bottom of the Garbhodaka ocean to top of Satyaloka there is four billion miles. Then the again, from east to west again is another four billion miles. Because Bhū-maṇḍala is situated in between the earth.
Prabhupāda: Explain. He'll explain.
Yaśodānandana: (background talking)
Bhakti-Prema: (background talking)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And that is salt water ocean, behind it.
Yaśodānandana: Salt water ocean goes all around.
Bhakti-Prema: All around.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's actually a circle, but we have shown one area, so it become flat.
Bhakti-Prema: This is a circle. And this is (indistinct). And this is Brahma-varṣa(?). And this is (indistinct). This is now eighty thousand miles high and sixty thousand miles wide, these mountains. And these...
Prabhupāda: All marble. Mountain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are they made of?
Yaśodānandana: Each mountain is made of a different kind of stone. Some are made of gold; some are made of coral; some of them, stones, are lapis lazuli, that blue stone that Kṛṣṇa wears. Each mountain has different variety.
Prabhupāda: They will be puzzled. These material scientists will be puzzled. (laughter)
Bhakti-Prema: But according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the beginning of creation we have relation with all this, in India. Even five thousand years ago Parīkṣit Mahārāja went and he conquered this area. I have translated this. This Tattvata-varṣa was conquered by... And this Ramya-varṣa was also conquered. And Vardhanya also... And then this is Bhārata-varṣa, this whole world.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where?
Bhakti-Prema: This.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is Bhārata-varṣa.
Bhakti-Prema: Yeah, and he was presiding here. He was living here. And then he crossed this mountain.
Prabhupāda: Crossed?
Bhakti-Prema: Yes. And he conquered it. Not only he saw, he conquered it. And it is surrounded by five other oceans. And again this is surrounded by (indistinct). And is surrounded by (indistinct). Again there are ten mountains.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is what we're painting next.
Bhakti-Prema: Next time we'll show you.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhū-maṇḍala, the whole Bhū-maṇḍala, these different oceans and dvīpas. That will be in color.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Puṣkara, he did the...
Puṣkara: I made the mess. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: He'll do something wonderful in arts. Kṛṣṇa will be... No complaint. All right. Jaya.
Devotees: (obeisances)
Prabhupāda: Vedic planetarium.
Bhakti-Prema: Next step will be planetary system.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Bhakti-Prema: The third planetary system, above Mount Meru.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. You have taken lunch?
Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...there is sun, and above that, there is moon. And they are going to moon. They are going nowhere, simply taking laboratory photo, studio photo, and cheating. Why this cheating can go on? You do not know. That's all. Who is insisting that "We must know"? (end)