770405 - Conversation A - Bombay
Indian man (Doctor?): I would like to have the history of the present program which is going on. It will be apparent that so much will be there. The same thing is going on.
Prabhupāda: I have no appetite. I cannot digest. This is going on. [break] (doctor has left) ...You have seen the birds, the sparrow, the crows. They are different birds. They have got different movements.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: From the pulse beating, you study how it is beating.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like sparrow, like crow.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Then, according to that, there is verse. Immediately everything will be arranged. The history. He will not ask, "Give me the history." He'll study the history from the pulse. That is Ayurvedic. So that is gone. To study Āyur-veda is now lost. Nobody seriously takes Āyur-veda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is not much big money in it, I think.
Prabhupāda: Thing is alleopathic is so popular now, nobody goes to Āyur-veda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there is no... You can't make a living very much.
Prabhupāda: They can give immediately, take. Although that is not very good, still, by lecture and by some strong medicine they can give him immediately. People like that. And Āyur-veda is long term, and people cannot wait.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The cure is very slow.
Prabhupāda: And that is also not very sure, because the Ayurvedic physicians, they have not taken many cases. They cannot experience. Everything requires experience. These are the difficulties in Āyur-veda. Still, some of the patent medicines, they are effective. Just like cyavana-prāśa, nava-yogendra, yogendra-rasa.(?) If they are properly prepared.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) Some water spilled next to Prabhupāda's desk. I was looking for a cloth.
Bhavānanda: (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Bhavānanda Mahārāja could get you some ḍāb water if you like. Prabhupāda was liking some ḍāb water.
[break]
(new conversation)
Prabhupāda: ...community. If the one community said, "Within our religion, there is no need of education..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of education?
Prabhupāda: So will the state allow that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they shouldn't, because then it is not religion. Genuine...
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is religion or no religion. Suppose there is university, and if some religious sect says that "In our religion we shall not take university education."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We shall not take any education from the university?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So will the government accept?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In United States there is a group in Pennsylvania, and they say that they will not undergo any kind of normal education, because it is polluted, and they have their own education, and they are permitted. Even from six, seven years old, from first grade. They are called the Amish people. (some noise in background) That's not a door, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's heavy dropping of heavy items.
Prabhupāda: Another point, in secular, the scientific knowledge, two plus two equal to four. If somebody says, "No, in our opinion it is five," will it be accepted?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't hear what you were saying.
Prabhupāda: If two plus two equal to four. If somebody says "In our opinion it should be five..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no one will accept that.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, if government requires teaching the science that this body is not yourself, you are different from the body, if some other sect, they say, "That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā ; it is meant for the Hindus, not for us," will it be accepted?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should not be.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the institution for teaching Bhagavad-gītā must be there. The science of life...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be there in every university.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's scientific. It is the only scientific book.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā BG 2.13 . Kaumāra, childhood, yauvanam, youthhood, and jarā, old age, does it mean only for the Hindus?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then how this science should be stopped for others? It is universal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just as that Christian asked you, is Lord Jesus's teachings universal. The Christians, they say that Jesus's teachings are universal. So that means that they must be true.
Prabhupāda: And they accept yes, and we say.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jesus said "Thou shalt not kill." This applies to all human beings. So if they say that about Jesus's teachings, why not about dehino 'smin yathā dehe BG 2.13 ? They should say.
Prabhupāda: The whole human society is being put into ignorance. How we can tolerate? We know the things. How we can hide it? Jñāna-khala. One who knows the thing, how he can hide it? He is called jñāna-khala. He has got the knowledge but he will not give it to anyone else.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is miserly.
Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Jñāna-khala. Khala means envious, "I know it..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A Vaiṣṇava is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī.
Prabhupāda: How we can stop spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness? It is not possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You told me that unless one is compassionate...
Prabhupāda: He cannot become Vaiṣṇava.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He cannot preach.
Prabhupāda: Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī, kṛpāmbudhi. My Guru Mahārāja used to say prāṇa āche yāṅra se'retu(?) pracāra. One who is living being, he can preach. Dead body cannot. One who is actually a living being, he can preach. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra CC Adi 9.41 . One who is a man, he will be interested in this. Cats and dogs, it is not possible. Bhārata-bhūmite haila kukkura-janma yāra, eka... Manuṣya. To give knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, this is India's prerogative. And India can distribute this knowledge. And the government has to consent. And they are misinterpreting this. I wanted to fight them, but...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It will be a very interesting meeting, to see if he is actually willing to take some action. He'll hear and he may agree, but whether he will act, that we will see.
Prabhupāda: He may not act. That will be (indistinct).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I am already doing is I am starting to compile a list of those that we want permanent residence for. I told Bhavānanda this morning already that he should tell me the names of those people in Bengal who he feels are qualified to remain permanently. So that way if suddenly we get some opportunity, I'll have the list all ready to submit. To me, of course, I am a little bit, tend towards pessimism, but I think that that is something we could actually hope for from this government. It won't be difficult...
Prabhupāda: Let me work with these foreigners, because you have taught Indian independence, and they are not coming. Therefore these foreign boys, they are helping me. So let them remain. What harm they are doing? Let them have permanent residence helping me. Their life, money, everything, why don't you allow me? Unnecessarily they have to go away and come again.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are throwing five lakhs of rupees that could be well utilized every year.
Prabhupāda: We are not... We have no interest in politics. What interest do we have in this phantasmagoria? We are not so fools. And there are so many people, they are taking part in politics. Is this sane?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the argument I always use when we are preaching to get someone to join. They say "Well, we want to be a doctor or we want to be..." I say there are already so many millions of doctors, so many, but there is only...
Prabhupāda: And doctor is canvassing, "You become my patient."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday that man was canvassing you. That Āyur-veda man.
Prabhupāda: As soon as he wanted history I rejected him. He is not Ayurvedic . And Karttikeya was sorry that I did not give him for one and a half hour.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Karttikeya, the whole time he was very agitated.
Prabhupāda: So everyone who will come I will have to give one and a half hour?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wanted you to stop talking to the reporter and begin talking to the doctor. What good the doctor will do, but the reporter can do so much good.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) [break] When I say do this, he can do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He listens.
Prabhupāda: So one must be cooking expert.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's a nice choice.
Prabhupāda: And if Upendra can do like Bhavānanda, then it is very nice. Let him he trained up. He can do. (discussing cleaning of floor) Now it is black.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is starting to shine.
Prabhupāda: The more we do...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is like shining one's heart.
Prabhupāda: This is, this is marble.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Bhavānanda Mahārāja and I were just discussing this morning... We were looking at the shining, and we were discussing the difference between this marble and kota stone. Kota stone is very much inferior.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kota, kota stone. You can never get it even smooth. It will always be uneven, because the stone is layers. So when they are polishing, some layers are higher than others. And marble is generally very first class.
Prabhupāda: You just don't hurry(?).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long Bhavānanda should...? Now Upendra is here, I am wondering...
Prabhupāda: If he is intelligent, he can learn it in one day.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise, a few days. Bhavānanda was thinking at least four days he will remain. He has gotten a little bit attached to taking care of you.
Prabhupāda: So wipe this floor twice like this. Let him see. As he does very nicely, very nicely.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think the best anyone has ever...
Prabhupāda: There is no doubt. How we can stop educating people about Bhagavad-gītā ? It is most heinous mentality, such knowledge should be hidden from the human society. And some rascal will misinterpret.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, your point yesterday was very nice that some things which are difficult, they may need explanations, but when Kṛṣṇa says, "Give it to Me," what is the question of a need of interpretation? That Radhakrishnan, immediately he gives his explanation: "It doesn't mean to Kṛṣṇa the person."
Prabhupāda: Just see. How rascal he is, and he is commenting. No, no, this is the rule, grammatical rule, that when things are clear, there is no interpretation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's an actual rule.
Prabhupāda: Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking. Caitanya said, "When the meaning is clear, why you are giving us this, nonsense?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sarvabhauma asked Him, "You have sat here hearing vedānta for seven, eight days, but You have not said anything. Are You not understanding?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I understand the vedānta, but I cannot understand your interpretation."
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you give me the key to the almirah, then I can fix the tacks (tax?).
Prabhupāda: Take.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll keep these here for now. First I'll do those.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation) (takes prasādam ) (end)