760515 - Morning Walk - Honolulu
Prabhupāda: God created the soul and the matter also. Has he discussed anything?
Hayagrīva: No.
Prabhupāda: God created everything. God created soul and the matter.
Hayagrīva: The individual soul.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Hayagrīva: Well, then, how is the individual soul eternal if it has a beginning?
Prabhupāda: No, we say there is no beginning. As God has no beginning, soul has no beginning.
Hayagrīva: No beginning, yes.
Prabhupāda: Na jāyate na mriyate vā. That is the distinction between matter and soul.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They counter that if God is all-powerful, He can do anything. So why not He can create a soul and that soul can then be eternal from that point?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christian may argue that God is all-powerful, so God has created the soul, and from that point the soul is eternal.
Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal, we admit.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But only from that point, not in the past.
Prabhupāda: Not in the past?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, because according to Biblical philosophy you only have one lifetime in this world.
Prabhupāda: Then who goes to heaven?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Persons who adopt the principles.
Prabhupāda: And if one life, then who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very few go to heaven.
Prabhupāda: Anyone, if he goes to hell or heaven, then why do you say "one life"? Then another life. Otherwise what is the meaning of going to heaven or hell?
Hari-śauri: No. They get one chance to good or bad, and then finish.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hari-śauri: They get one chance. Do good or bad. Then you either go to heaven or to hell. But you don't get another chance.
Prabhupāda: But if he goes heaven means there is another life. How do you say "one life"? This is defective philosophy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But this is what God has said in the Bible; therefore we must accept.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is what God has said in the Bible; therefore we must accept.
Prabhupāda: God, if He says something unreasonable, how it can be accepted? You say, "one life." Then who goes to the next life? That is defective. Why do you not talk back?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: [break] ...cannot explain why some people are born in a more pious setting and some people are born in a more impious setting.
Prabhupāda: Because they do not know the karma. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa SB 3.31.1 . According to one's activities, pious or impious, he gets the next birth. That is quite reasonable. But they do not believe in karma. When I was student in Scottish Churches College, so we had to attend class, half an hour, Bible. So the Dr. Urquhart, he did.... The argument was: "So if karma is there and I am suffering for my karma, who is the witness?" But because they do not know that the witness is God.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He asked that question?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he asked that question. [break] Paramātmā.... They say "Holy Ghost." What is that Holy Ghost?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Holy Ghost is supposed to give knowledge to persons who have embraced the teaching.
Prabhupāda: Therefore He is seeing what you are doing. So according to your action, the Holy Ghost gives you another birth. [break] ... sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati. [break]...dictating everyone's heart, and He is observing. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā BG 18.61 .
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: [break] ...contends that if a person does not become fully aware in this lifetime of God, then they don't have another chance, and they are condemned to hell for eternity.
Prabhupāda: The hell or heaven doesn't matter. The next life is there. How you say "one life"? That is defective theory. Therefore this philosophy cannot be accepted. Anything which is defective is not to be accepted.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply dogma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...rejected. That is Vedic process.
Hari-śauri: Actually, there's so many different understandings that the Christians have of the same thing. They all have different type of philosophy.
Hayagrīva: No, Christ never said that. Christ never said you only have one life.
Prabhupāda: So that is real philosophy. That is real philosophy.
Hayagrīva: This is the.... All of this evolved from the church fathers.
Prabhupāda: That is all defective, unscrupulous.
Rādhāvallabha: [break] ...come up to us on saṅkīrtana, and they are smoking a cigarette, and they say, "Do you accept Jesus Christ?"
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhāvallabha: They say, "You cannot be successful unless you accept Jesus Christ like us." But they were smoking.
Prabhupāda: We accept. Rather, you do not accept. Jesus Christ said "Thou shall not kill." We strictly observe that, but you kill. You are not a Christian.
Hari-śauri: "But that's just an ideal, the Ten Commandments. You're not expected to follow."
Prabhupāda: No, that is your explanation. That is your concoction. [break] ...take it. As soon as you disobey Ten Commandments, you are not a Christian. You are heathen. [break] And the thing is that religious faith should not be discussed on philosophy because everyone has got some, his own concocted faith. That is not philosophy. Faith is different. "I believe," "You believe," "I do not believe"—that is not philosophy. [break] ...philosophy in Bhagavad-gītā that asmin dehe.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe BG 2.13 , there is soul. This is philosophy. Religion without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental concoction. So both of them should be combined. Then it is perfect.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: [break] ...can be given, though, that man's logic is so tiny, pea brain, and God's logic is so great, so how can actually man discuss the logic of God?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is given that God is infinitely great.
Prabhupāda: Then don't discuss. Sleep. If you cannot understand God's logic and God's philosophy, then don't discuss. Stop discuss.
Rādhāvallabha: Jewish people say that you can't chant the name of God because it is too sacred.
Prabhupāda: Yes, too sacred, that's.... Actually that's a fact. And those who are too sinful, they cannot chant. [break] ...these ten kinds of offenses.
Rādhāvallabha: [break] ...that God has put the world here for us to enjoy, so we will please Him by enjoying it. [break]
Prabhupāda: You go at four o'clock to your working place and come at night, ten. Is that enjoyment?
Rādhāvallabha: But on the weekend we can go to the beach. And we can eat whatever we want.
Prabhupāda: No, no, you can go to hell also. Different thing.... [break] ... jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu. That is there. If you are suffering from disease, where is enjoyment? Mental discomfort, bodily discomfort. You are taking thrice pills for tranquillity. Is that enjoyment?
Rādhāvallabha: They say you have to take the good with the bad.
Prabhupāda: This nonsense enjoyment. Fool's paradise. For keeping the mind in tranquillity he is taking four times pills. For sleeping, he is taking pill. Does he enjoy that?
Rādhāvallabha: By suffering you can get a deeper appreciation...
Prabhupāda: Then what is enjoyment? Suffer. Then why is called enjoyment? By suffering you can.... (too much static-end)