751219 - Morning Walk - Bombay
Prabhupāda: What is platform?
Saurabha: Casting of slabs and footings. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...every day I don't think.
Dr. Patel: They eat anything but, sir.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Dr. Patel: So they get their food all right. They may not get our food every day, but their food they get.
Prabhupāda: No.... They eat meat, they don't get...
Dr. Patel: They eat even stool. Just like hogs.
Prabhupāda: That also a human being does. You know in concentration camp in second war they had to eat their stool.
Dr. Patel: But the British army had a regulation that they could drink urine but not stool. They cannot eat.
Prabhupāda: You may make regulation, but necessity has no regulation.
Dr. Patel: I.... because I happen to be.... I, I was holding the honorary position of a colonel in the army...
Prabhupāda: Just see, "I am making law: you can drink urine." Just see what is the position. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: In difficulty if there is no water, you can drink your own urine, but you cannot eat your stool. It is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: If I drink urine, still I will have to be punished. By the law. I'm drinking urine, and because I have violated law, I will have to be punished. This is God.
Dr. Patel: There is, sir, one matter in Ayurvedas, svayāmbu cikitsā, wherein people are drinking their own urine, because urine is not only water and waste products but there are certain broken, I mean what you call important articles, of body maintainence.
Prabhupāda: So those.... You are advising your patients to go and drink...?
Dr. Patel: No, I don't say. But that is not so bad, because it contains those hormones.... (Prabhupāda breaks in laughing) It does contain the hormones, I mean it has been analyzed like that, scientifically. It is not to be joked about.
Prabhupāda: No. It is analyzed. And stool is full of hydrophosphites. Yes, that is another.... Stool is full of hydrophosphites.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi to another man) They are bringing.... There is a matter in cikitsā in Ayurveda. Svayāmbu. What is that called? So, Mr.... our er, Mr. Desai. Morarji...
Prabhupāda: He is drinking?
Dr. Patel: ...who lost his premiership of India, he is drinking his own urine.
Man: (indistinct) also.
Dr. Patel: Yes. He is drinking.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Why?
Dr. Patel: And look at him. He's so, I mean, so absolutely healthy. I mean it is, we should not laugh about it, but there is something right in it.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't laugh; I am surprised! (devotees laugh)
Dr. Patel: No, we are surprised. I also, I also was surprised first, but then it is not so.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa! Thank you very much (to passerby) Who is your devotee daughter?
Dr. Patel: Janice. Jani! (calling to passing man) His mother was so much great devotee, she died only at the age of ninety-eight years. When she was...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: His mother. She was dying, and she said, "I don't want to see anybody; bring only Kṛṣṇa's photo before me." (Hindi to other man) No, no. His mother-Mr. Jani's. And then looking at the photograph of Kṛṣṇa, she breathed her last.
Prabhupāda: I saw in Delhi one old man, just a few minutes before his death he asked his son to bring Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa picture, and it was put before him, and he died.
Dr. Patel: And my father died saying oṁ tat sat śrī-kṛṣṇāya namaḥ, and then he stopped it, breathing, in the morning at six o'clock.
Man: Morning, that is very good.
Dr. Patel: Yes, six o'clock. And my wife was daily saying bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam before she died.
Prabhupāda: Hm. (to devotees) Just see: govindam.
Dr. Patel: Hm. That bhaja govindam she was very fond of. Śaṅkarācārya's bhaja govindaṁ, bhaja govindaṁ... When I used to talk about Sanskrit literature, she said "Why do I want to know grammar? Bhaja govindam is all right for me." She said. Hm? ...Stubhyāṁ bhagavate vāsudevaya I don't know how many thousands of times, for the whole day.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ CC Adi 17.31 .
Dr. Patel: My father never did any work in all his life. Never. He had some estate, and then he lost it also. We are big zamindars, and he lost all the land and property in various forms of business. And after that he only was sitting in the temple all the day and saying hari-nāma. All his life, from the age of forty years till he died at age of eighty, he did that. My mother died when he was thirty-two years.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Dr. Patel: Very early. And he never married again, and I was the only son and no other daughter or son. Many people requested him to marry, but he said no, he would not marry, because one son is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: Yes. putradi (?) bhāgya. Putra, when there is putra, what is the use of marriage?
Dr. Patel: I was five years old when my mother died. In that big, pandemic of influenza in 1918, that..., that...
Prabhupāda: Yes, war influenza, after war.
Dr. Patel: After war. The whole world was (indistinct). [break] What you do for the...
Prabhupāda: He did not remember God, he remembered his son. But God is so kind, because he uttered God's name, He took it seriously.
Dr. Patel: That Mr. Shah had gone to the States and came back from there, some three months back, and he praised the Americans, that no man on Sunday is in the street. All of them are in the churches, and you hear on the radio only those hymns. Is it a fact?
Prabhupāda: He is American. (indicates Harikeśa)
Harikeśa: Yes, but nobody listens to the radio.
Dr. Patel: He says that at least government does it. Here government is giving all the cinema. And there the churches are overflowing.
Prabhupāda: In London I have seen almost all the churches are vacant.
Dr. Patel: On Sundays? I don't know now. When I was a student I used to see them full, overflowing practically. Because they were beaten down by war very recently, they did not forget God then.
Harikeśa: On Sundays they're pretty full. For a couple of hours they're pretty full.
Dr. Patel: In the morning.
Harikeśa: Then in the afternoon they're vacant. That's when they get their big collection, big collection on Sunday.
Dr. Patel: Sir, everywhere it is the church which has actually distorted the message.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: It is the church which has distorted the message. You see the Christ's message is distorted by the church; our Kṛṣṇa's message is distorted by our temples, sort of a thing.
Prabhupāda: Why temples? Even your big, big political leaders, they distort. By do you blame the temples?
Dr. Patel: But Christianity is distorted by the...
Prabhupāda: Everyone. That is going on.
Dr. Patel: ...those popes. However, Christ taught bhāgavata-dharma, absolute bhāgavata-dharma. It is this creation of the church, really to my mind, that the Christ is forgotten by the Western countries.
Prabhupāda: And who is remembering your Kṛṣṇa in this country?
Dr. Patel: There are a few people. I, we are not that...
Prabhupāda: In Bombay, there are so many roads, "Vivekananda road." But there is no Kṛṣṇa Road. Hm? Who is remembering Kṛṣṇa?
Dr. Patel: There is Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery, in market. Kṛṣṇa Art Gallery. (laughing) (Hindi conversation with man about Kṛṣṇa's name) Ajāmila spoke "Nārāyaṇa." You may speak in the name of your father, that his called name. Heḥ?
Prabhupāda: That is a chance; that is not...
Man: Now the Air India's plane, they have kṛṣṇa-līlā pictures.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Man: In Air India plane.
Prabhupāda: That is sense enjoyment. Only Rādhārāṇī and Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa is killing Kaṁsa, that picture is.... Killing Kaṁsa, that picture you won't find. Kṛṣṇa is embracing gopīs, "Ah, that is very nice!" (laughter) Because "We are doing the same thing, we are following Kṛṣṇa." That is their purpose. They are very much fond of Kṛṣṇa's mixing with the gopīs because they get a support, that "What we are doing..."
Dr. Patel: "We are following Kṛṣṇa!"
Prabhupāda: Yes. These rascals, they have taken...
Indian man: But this, sir...
Prabhupāda: They will never paint any picture of Kṛṣṇa is killing Pūtāna, Aghasura, Bakasura, Kaṁsa—so many killing process from the very childhood. That picture you won't find. Because he knows he is Aghasura. He'll be killed. (laughing)
Dr. Patel: We see pictures of Giridhārī, like that. Now we see even Giridhārī picture. Sir, it is the education. The disturb the education of this country after Neccola (?). That is the cause of it.
Prabhupāda: Naḥ, Necolla(?) has gone long, long ago. What you are doing now?
Dr. Patel: Necolla(?) have made it sir.
Prabhupāda: You can change it. That Necolla(?) has conquered you.
Dr. Patel: That's right. They did conquer us. These priests even are not tending even the system of education.
Śravaṇānanda: At the Ramakrishna Mission school in Madras near a football field, there is one slogan on the arch that says, "The playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gītā. "
Prabhupāda: Just see. Has Neccolla(?) carved this?
Śravaṇānanda: He said, "Tear up all the big tulasīs... "
Dr. Patel: Is it a fact? We don't know.
Prabhupāda: It is a fact if he says.
Śravaṇānanda: Yes. It is written right there, it's written right there. They say the playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vivekananda taught this.
Śravaṇānanda: He said "Pull out the tulasī and plant brinjal. "
Prabhupāda: Yes, he advised, better water what is called, eggplant tree, than tulasī tree. It will bring some fruit. What is the use of watering tulasī tree?
Dr. Patel: Tulasi has got great medicinal properties.
Prabhupāda: That he is not even prepared to...
Dr. Patel: He must not be knowing. Those rascals.
Prabhupāda: And "Why you are searching out God here and there? There are so many Gods loitering in the street." This is the Vivekananda's statement. And therefore everyone is God. Everyone is thinking, "I am God." This is going on.
Śravaṇānanda: When we went to try to arrange a lecture at their football field for a pandal program, they said all the people coming would ruin the turf for cricket season. So they didn't have time for spiritual training, they said, only for the physical training. It caused too much damage on the field.
Dr. Patel: In my school, sir, where I was educated, in the entrance there is a statue of Sarasvatī, and nearby there is a photograph of Kṛṣṇa. I don't know how it came, that one.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: All are not like that. In my school where I was educated, secondary school, in the entrance there was a statue of Sarasvatī, and near that was Kṛṣṇa's photo. (pause) (someone shouts Hare Kṛṣṇa)
Prabhupāda: In good health.
Dr. Patel: He always runs like this. All the time. He is so much frightened of his wife in the house that he cannot speak a word. Still he is in the house. That is why he makes good of the things when he comes out. (laughs) He behaves so naughtily like that. (Hindi with one man) Sir, shall we go this way, if you don't mind?
Prabhupāda: That Mr. Punja is staying? From Fiji? He has not come?
Devotee: Oh, no, he hasn't come back yet. He had two days' business, he said. He said he would come after that. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...doing there, these slums?
Dr. Patel: This was, they wanted to, er, have a officer of customs. The public, I mean, objected to, because they are imposing upon them, the way of the public walking. So they stopped it, but they are not taking away all these walls. Otherwise where the poor fellows will make the hutments?
Prabhupāda: That is what they are doing.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) The municipality has no objection. (Hindi with other man) Therefore Gandhi says that he does not give away these poor people...
Prabhupāda: Then why they are in the hands of the empire lost? Why they lost their empire?
Dr. Patel: Because they were shortsighted.
Prabhupāda: But how they knew?
Dr. Patel: But they knew how to govern.
Prabhupāda: No, this is not government, if you lose after all. What is this government? You must govern in such a way that you will never lose it.
Dr. Patel: Well, sir, we also had an empire, India, and we have lost it, haven't we? And we, all the eastern country, Malaya, Java, Sumatra, and all those things. Why we lost it? Kālena!
Prabhupāda: Kālena of course. So when you lose your culture, then you lose everything.
Dr. Patel: That's right. Because they did not see with the same eye all people. They were the rascals. (indistinct) ...a very good race. After all, we are Aryans.
Prabhupāda: Aryans means to follow Vedic instructions.
Dr. Patel: They have forgotten.
Prabhupāda: That is Aryans. So they are now the same thing. A person born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is claiming "I am brāhmaṇa. " Similarly, even though born in Aryan family, without any culture they are claiming "I am Aryan." Kṛṣṇa observed it in Arjuna, and therefore He chastised him, "This kind of proposal is anārya-juṣṭam. Under the non-Aryans, you're forgetting your duty." That is the beginning of loss of culture. A small beginning, it creates havoc. Kṛṣṇa warned this, anārya-juṣṭam. Kṣatriya's description is given in the Bhāgavata: yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam, not to go behind. They must fight. That is Aryan culture.
Dr. Patel: They are doing strategical fight. Strategically great. They should not repeat, but our army is doing strategical fight.
Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali saying- palabanata boineki(?): "Am I afraid of you, that I shall not go away?"
Dr. Patel: (laughing) I understand.
Prabhupāda: "I must go away. That is my independence!"
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says specifically, kṣatriya, yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam: "You must fight. Face."
Dr. Patel: That yuddhe must be also religious. Not...
Prabhupāda: Yuddha... Everything must be religious. Why yuddha ? Your ordinary living must be also religious. Otherwise animal. Animal also lives. But if you don't live religiously, that is animal. Dharmena hena paśave sa. If you live like animal, then you are animal. If you live like human being, that human being means dharma. We cannot expect any dharma in the animal society. It is meant for the humans. (someone gives Prabhupāda something) Hm, thank you. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that a flower without smell and a man without education—the same thing. A flower without smell, similarly, a man without education.
Dr. Patel: Sir, what is the distinction between a culture and an education?
Prabhupāda: Culture means human being.
Dr. Patel: Human...?
Prabhupāda: Human being. Just like Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. This is culture to see every woman as mother. This is not education. Education, the modern meaning of education is rubbish, to learn ABCD. This is not education. Without culture, what is the meaning of education?
Dr. Patel: So culture is the background for all these things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Education is required to help culture. Not that you take degrees from the university and remain a dog. That is not education. Here is education, as Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says:
mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
ātmāvat sarva-bhūteṣu
yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ
Here is a description of paṇḍita: first of all learn how to see other woman as your mother. There the culture begins. And they are, from the very beginning of the school college life, they are learning how to entice one girl. This is education.
Dr. Patel: They are following the so-called advanced countries.
Prabhupāda: Advanced means Freud's philosophy.
Dr. Patel: So-called advancement.
Prabhupāda: Sex philosophy. This is their education. So how you can expect gentlemen? It is not possible. From the very beginning there is no culture, animal culture. Just like dogs, as soon as he finds another female dog, he wants to have sex. This is education.
Dr. Patel: One friend of mine he told me that this culture is vultures' culture. They eat anything and everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not vultures. It is called hog civilization. The hog, they eat anything and they have sex with anyone.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. These animals they don't distinguish between their own bodily relatives.
Prabhupāda: Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye SB 5.5.1 . This is instruction. Where is culture? Culture is lost. So therefore there is no value of education. And besides that, education means spiritual education. Brahma-vidyā. This education how to make aeroplane or a nice bridge or a machine, this is called kalā-vidyā. This is not vidyā.
Dr. Patel: Para and apara vidyā.
Prabhupāda: No, kalā.... Kalā means artistic. Suppose a carpenter, he knows how to make a very nice, good furniture, does it mean that he is educated? He knows the art, some artistic way, that's all; but he is not educated. But nowadays it is going on that if you know some art, technology, then you are educated. This is not education. Education means culture.
Dr. Patel: Yes. And culture means...
Prabhupāda: Culture means human life. Otherwise dog's life. There is.... Adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam. Everything is described. Amānitvam: first of all you have to learn how to become humble. And here all the people, they are educated how to become proud. What is education?
Dr. Patel: Christ says, sir, the meek and humble shall inherit this earth. They unfortunately, the followers of Christ are not meek and humble.
Prabhupāda: And this culture cannot be maintained unless one is God conscious. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā SB 5.18.12 . There cannot be any culture for a godless person. That is not possible. And, yasyāsti-bhaktir bhagavaty-akiñcanā. Just like this European and American boy is offering obeisances to the guru, this is culture. Why he has learned this culture? Because he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā, sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. If you make one devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then all culture will automatically come. One thing. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: So all devotees are cultured?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Theirs is really culture. Prahlāda Mahārāja says, tam manye' dhitam uttamam, śravanaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇu-smaraṇam pāda-sevanam arcanam. Tam manye' dhityam uttamam, he is first-class educated. This is recommendation by Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says, "If one is not God-conscious: duṣkṛtino, mūḍhā, narādhamā, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. " Where is their qualification? Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha. Where is culture? Suppose you steal by tricks, by, I mean to say, by legal tricks, does it mean it is culture? But that is going on.
Dr. Patel: That means, sir, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ, yat kiñcid jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā ISO mantra 1 . That should be the background of all the governments.
Prabhupāda: That is bhagavad-bhakti... (end)