751217 - Morning Walk - Bombay
(Hindi—Dr. Patel and another man)
Dr. Patel: The country is already murdered. What are you talking of murder now?
Man: I don't want to talk of these things. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: They have gone mad now, sir. Actually they have ransacked the morality of this land, and they are going to ransack the social conditions. (Hindi) I have got one rifle, one revolver and one pistol. I am keeping always with me now. (Hindi) These people, sir, have really ruined this, this batch of rulers.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.
Dr. Patel: Sadar Patel by (indistinct). He was a man of practice. He could have...
Prabhupāda: But who will live? Everyone will die.
Dr. Patel: Everyone will die, that's right. These people, they behave as if they are living permanently. Then they are doing a bad thing, they think that they are...
Prabhupāda: So we have to tolerate. There is no other way.
Dr. Patel: That we are doing.
Prabhupāda: Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. They come and go. You have to do your business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These people will come and go. Place everything at the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: (Patel and friend talk in Hindi aside) I don't drink. I hardly, I hardly go out one evening now.
Man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hm? So what about this land we have given? Where is Saurabha? He is not coming? What about this land we have given for road?
Saurabha: That is effasigh(?). We are using as effasigh(?)
Prabhupāda: So effasigh(?) we are going to have for these evenings?
Saurabha: We have about 60,000 sq. ft. of area we can build.
Prabhupāda: We are going to (indistinct).
Saurabha: For the other building.
Prabhupāda: Other building?
Saurabha: Yes. You were speaking about constructing another building on the back of the land. We can have one big building of about one hundred and eighty rooms easily.
Prabhupāda: Then it's all right.
Dr. Patel: One hundred eighty rooms? One hundred eighty?
Saurabha: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Very fine. After the building of this completely as per plan...
Saurabha: Yes. And then we still have area for gurukula also. Another hundred rooms.
Dr. Patel: Most people (indistinct) [break]
Prabhupāda: Yesterday... Last night, I explained at the Birla house that you have to change only your care of. Now we are care of under material energy, and you have to transfer your under care of spiritual energy. They appreciated.
Dr. Patel: They are under the care of great māyā, mah-māyā.
Prabhupāda: Everyone...
Dr. Patel: ...is sitting in the building, of all the Birlas.
Prabhupāda: Not Birlas, everyone. (laughing)
Dr. Patel: (also laughing) I don't know, sir. But I... I am a rebellion against them. In 1958, sir, I told you, the Congress, when I was a member of Congress, that I can't be the member of such an institution which just simply lies, telling white lies.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You may say about congressman, and this one, Communist man; everyone is under...
Dr. Patel: Is a rascal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our verdict. Mūḍha. We understand from Bhagavad-gītā...
Dr. Patel: Why mūḍha, sir. Mudhatamaḥ!
Prabhupāda: Yes, vimūḍha. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says not only mūḍha but vimūḍha ; viśeṣa-mūḍha especifical. Prahlādah Mahārāja says the same thing: tato vimūkha-cetasā. Vimūkha cetasā means one who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Tato vimukha-cetasa soce, and simply thinking of desires. Who are this? Those who are nondevotees, one who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Tato vimukha-cetasa. So why you are searching? Māy-sukhāya: simply for so-called sense gratification for a few days, bhāram udvahato vimūḍhān, making big, big plans. I am thinking of these rascals. What for they are making big, big plans? They will stay here for a few days, and forgetting Kṛṣṇa consciousness they are busy in making plans. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says they are mūḍha, vimūḍha. As soon as you find one, not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately mūḍha, vimūḍha. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍh prapdyante narādhamāḥ.
Dr. Patel: That knowledge is, I mean, perished by māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyā will help you. If you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, Māyā will help you, how you can more and more forget.
Dr. Patel: Māyā would help us even for finding out Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: No. māyā...
Dr. Patel: ...because the body is the māyā, the mind is māyā, and the very mind will help us, sir, that doesn't it help us to go towards Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No. That is not māyā's help. When you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, māyā will not bother with your business. That means you get relief from māyā. You are no more under the jurisdiction of māyā. You..., now you are under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. māyā will trouble you so long you do not go in the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. Ye mā prapadyante māyā.
Prabhupāda: And as soon as you go under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān paritiyaja mām ekam, then there is no jurisdiction of māyā. Just like as soon as the sun rises there is no more darkness, automatically. You do not require to dissipate the darkness. As soon as there is sun, everything is light. (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya! Mam eva ye prapadyante māyām etā taranti te. This is the process. It is simple method. To become under the jurisdiction of māyā it requires great labor. But to become under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa, it takes a minute. But these rascals will not do that. Kṛṣṇa...
Dr. Patel: Because Kṛṣṇa Himself has made your eyes, all these indriyas outgoing, so...
Prabhupāda: Indriya, He has made your eyes to see Kṛṣṇa, not a prostitute. That is your fault. Kṛṣṇa has given you eyes to see Him, but you are utilizing to see a prostitute. That is not Kṛṣṇa's fault; that is your fault. Eyes are not bad. Kṛṣṇa has given you eyes to see: Kṛṣṇa. But we are utilizing for other purpose. That is our fault. We are presenting this Kṛṣṇa's Deity in the temple, but who is coming to utilize his eyes? Nobody is coming. They will go to see cinema, beautiful actress; so they are ultilizing the eyes for this purpose.
Dr. Patel: I have seen the last cinema in '58. "Gone with the Wind."
Prabhupāda: Not your eyes...
Dr. Patel: It was "Gone with the Wind."
Prabhupāda: So we are misusing everything. Therefore bhakti means stop this misuse. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam CC Madhya 19.170 , that is bhakti. Whatever you have got, utilize it properly. Don't misuse it. That is all the instruction. Kuruṣva mad-arpanam. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you are doing with your senses..."
Dr. Patel: ... kaunteya mukta-saṅga samācara.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is wanted. The māyāvādī philosophers, they are taking because the senses are creating so much trouble, material existence, finish this- śūnyavādi. But that will not solve the problem. Problem will be solved that you keep your eyes. You don't require to finish it, but cure it. Just like you medical man. If one is blind out of cataract, you don't say that you pluck it, the eye, and throw it. No. "Please cure it and you'll be able to see." This is the difference between māyāvādī philosopher and Vaiṣṇava philosopher. They want to pluck it out, make it zero, śūnyavāda.
Dr. Patel: Śūnyavāda.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the philosophy. Śūnyavādī means they want to make it zero. Your are troubling, you have got so much trouble with your eyes: don't bother, pluck it out! This is their philosophy. And our philosophy is, "No, there is no need of plucking out. Just cure it and you'll see." That is...
Dr. Patel: That is what the Kaṭhopaniṣad teaches us.
Prabhupāda: Every Vedic scripture will advise you. You take this Upaniṣad or that Upaniṣad ; the ultimate is Gitopaniṣad. The final, Gitopaniṣad. Yes, Gītā is Upaniṣad.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. That is always mentioned after each of them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Gitopanisad. So Gītā is the substance and summary of all Upaniṣads, and Upaniṣads means Vedas. That is the Vedic knowledge.
Harikesa: But if you negate "I," there's no question of seeing.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikesa: If you negate the "I..."
Prabhupāda: The same principle, that "You are seeing. Now kill yourself: you don't see." That's all. The same philosophy. You are seeing and feeling disturbance—better kill yourself; you'll not see, then all problems solved. This is their advise. Kill yourself. So who will agree to that?
Dr. Patel: Yes, philosophically kill yourself, and get yourself transferred to a different life.
Prabhupāda: No, no...
Dr. Patel: I mean not physically, I mean as a philosophical point...
Prabhupāda: "Kill" means you finish yourself, no more seeing...
Dr. Patel: Finish your present ego...
Prabhupāda: That is your interpretation. Killing means finish everything. Killing does not mean that you will again see. There is not killing.
Harikesa: But you'll just go in another body...
Prabhupāda: That is curing. Killing and curing. If you kill yourself, then whole thing is finished. But if you cure yourself, then you see rightly. So we advise cure, not kill. That is our philosophy.
Dr. Patel: You mean cure the ego. Cure the ego.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Cure the disease.
Dr. Patel: ...ego is the disease. First disease man is overtaken by.
Prabhupāda: False ego, you can say false ego. "I exist"; this is pure ego. I exist, that's a fact, and when we say "I exist for this life, I can finish it, there is no next life," that is not pure ego.
Dr. Patel: That should be the ego of God or the ego of you. (Sanskrit) Whether God's ego or your ego, there cannot be two egos.
Prabhupāda: Sama hi, sama hi. You are already sama hi. Sarvam kalv idam brahma. You are already in Brahman. There is no question of samai. The rascal cannot see. They say samai. Why samai ? You are already there. You do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūta prasannātmā. I am already here, prasannātmā. If you have the false impression that "I am out of brahman, " that is, there is question of samai. But if you know that you are already in brahman, then where is the question of samai ? Prasannātmā. This is real explanation. Brahm-bhuta prasannātmā. Now we understand that I am aha brahmāsmi. That is real knowledge. I am not this body, I am not American, I am not Indian. Aha brahmāsmi...
Dr. Patel: "I am not this body."
Prabhupāda: Ah, that is real knowledge. But they are under the impression of this false knowledge. Therefore it is samai. Why samai ? You are already there. Kṛṣṇa says mamaivāṁso jīva-bhūtaḥ BG 15.7 . When the sun is there, the sunshine is also there. Always. So you are sunshine and Kṛṣṇa is sun, so we are already together. But the cloud is there. We are thinking "I am not sunshine; I am cloud." That is misconception. But when we understand that the cloud is no more there, then aha brahmāsmi. Brahm-bhūta prasannātmā. That is wanted. Under the fool's guidance you are becoming fool. And if we take the real guidance, then we come into the real knowledge. We have created a fool's paradise. Everyone is a fool, and he is promising paradise.
Dr. Patel: This is called living under (indistinct)...
Prabhupāda: This is going on. Otherwise why there are so many rascals? (indistinct) The fools make it a fool's paradise. Take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Everything's all right. There is no question...
Dr. Patel: This māyā is duratyayā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, mām eva... Why don't you surrender? māyā will not disturb.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi aside to someone) Sir, then, sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhakti labhate parām. In your, I mean... That is the highest...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can say when you are yourself brahma bhūta SB 4.30.20 . But if you are not brahma bhuta, that is not possible. They are trying to unite everyone in the United Nations, all cats and dogs. They are simply barking. There is no possibility of unity. That is not possible. They'll simply go on barking. And it is an association of dogs barking. That's all. So if you keep them dogs, there is no question of unity. If you bring them to brahman consciousness, aha brahmāsmi, then there will be unity.
Dr. Patel: That is that sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And then when you are in that stage, then you can become qualified to serve God. Mad-bhakti labhate parām. So bhakti is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇā sahareṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye.
Dr. Patel: It is more difficult than...
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not difficult, but because they are rascals, they made it difficult. Kṛṣṇa says, "Immediately." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām eka śaraṇa vraja aha tvā sarva-pāpebhyo BG 18.66 . "I'll give you protection-immediately, within a second." But they'll not do that. That is māyā. Kṛṣṇa says that it is so easy that you can become immediately brahma bhuta. Why you should waste time, many, many lives, to come to this conclusion that vāsudeva sarvam iti sa mahātm sudurlabhaḥ ? Why you should waste your time, many lives? Do it immediately.
Dr. Patel: Sir, we must have wasted our many lives in past, and we have come to this stage, who knows how...
Prabhupāda: Hm, we have come to this stage, we are reading Bhagavad-gītā. You do it, now. Why you are delaying? If after many, many births I have come to this conclusion, surrender to Kṛṣṇa, why don't you do it now? That is intelligence. (Hindi about rupees) How rascal he is! (Hindi joke) (laughter) Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up all your duties and just come to Me. Immediately." (Hindi) These boys, they did it! That's all.
Dr. Patel: We are grateful, sir.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Yes... (Hindi) No, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the nicest movement. Only intelligent man can take it. It is a fact. It is a fact.
Dr. Patel: Maybe (Hindi).
Prabhupāda: Fools, there are all fools; otherwise why the movement is there? The movement is there for correcting the fools. Otherwise there is no need of...
Dr. Patel: So many fools are corrected... (laughing)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! (Hindi conversation with passerby)
Dr. Patel: One of the renowned poet of Gujarat. His house is right next to the main temple in Dvārakā.
Prabhupāda: There was one devotee, he, some Queen or somebody, she was approached by somebody, that two poets are come... Ah, Kalidāsa, yes. "Kalidāsa poet has come to see you." So she immediately said, "I know only two poets, Vyāsadeva and Valmikī, and all other poets I kick out!"
Dr. Patel: This is Rāmāyaṇa and Mahābhārata.
Prabhupāda: "I know only two poets." So she refused to see Kalidāsa.
Dr. Patel: One Gosvāmi refused to see Mīrābai, and then she said that "There are only be men at the bhajana, not that... Kṛṣṇa is the only man..."
Prabhupāda: One thing is, we don't find any authoritative scripture that Mīrābai ever met Rūpa Gosvāmī, but they say like that in Vṛndāvana. But from the life of Rūpa Gosvāmī, we understand that the Gosvāmīs were so popular in Vṛndāvana that if there was any family quarrel, husband and wife, they used to come to Rūpa Gosvāmi to settle up, and automatically he would give the decision, and they would settle up. So how it is possible that he did not see any woman?
Dr. Patel: He did not, ah, Rūpa Gosvāmi or Jīva Gosvāmī, some other Gosvāmī, they say.
Girirāja: It was Jīva Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: Jīva Gosvāmī?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why Jīva Gosvāmi should not see woman? That is also doubtful.
Dr. Patel: He, he did see Mīrābai.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu also never refused to see woman. But womans were offering respect from a distance, that's all. Not very near. But we don't see that He refused to see woman. Why the Goswamis will do that?
Dr. Patel: That is the story going round.
Prabhupāda: Then paṇḍitā sama-darśinaḥ. How it is possible?
Harikesa: There's that story of the one woman who was on His shoulder, on that (sic:) Nṛsiṁha column looking at Lord Jagannātha, and Govinda tried to take her down and Lord Caitanya said no.
Prabhupāda: One woman, out of her eagerness to see Jagannātha, there was big crowd, she jumped up over the shoulder of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the devotees said, (in an urgent whisper:) "Come on, come on down. What you are doing?" Caitanya: "No, she is so eager to see Jagannātha. Don't disturb. Don't disturb. Let her stand on My shoulder." So there is no question of hating woman. We want simply devotee. That's all. But unless we are very advanced, we take precaution. That is another thing.
Dr. Patel: Man is very (indistinct) grahi . Mind... I mean Arjuna was told by Bhagavān in sixth ajya, "Mind is so difficult to control..." (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He says that "My mind is disturbed even by seeing a wooden doll of a woman." So that is also there.
Dr. Patel: I mean the Vaiṣṇavas, sir, sādhus, they are not expected to look at the pictures of women.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not... Then how Caitanya Mahāprabhu allowed the woman to stand on His shoulder?
Dr. Patel: He is, was a mahaprabhu. Not for us...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is the criterion, that if one is perfect devotee, then it is all right. And so long he is not or she is not perfect devotee, then there is restriction.
Dr. Patel: In the sādhana stage.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...it is the sādhana, completely sādhana (Hindi), then he is, everything is... Sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu.
Prabhupāda: For kaniṣṭha-adhikārī.
Dr. Patel: Sarve sameṣu bhūteṣu. We are not sarve sama as yet.
Prabhupāda: So it depends on the condition.
Dr. Patel: It is said that they are not only look at the female dolls, or even...
Prabhupāda: But that is moral instruction. That is moral instruction. Even if you are not a devotee, you should not think of these things. That is the moral instruction. The brahmacārī, if he thinks of woman, that is also retricted.
Dr. Patel: But in eight ways he must observe brahmācārya. Eight ways. All the five senses and the three..., mind (Sanskrit).
Prabhupāda: What is the time?
Harikesa: 7.10 a.m.
Prabhupāda: So we shall return. (short discussion of actual time)
Dr. Patel: It is 7.20 a.m. You are airport?
Harikesa: Airport time.
Dr. Patel: Airport time is wrong. Every clock is very different time there. Each one has its own standard.
Prabhupāda: Some time back when I was a young boy, I went to see a football match in Calcutta. So after finishing, I came walking through the Bentink Street. So I saw one time in the beginning, and I came to my house, some watch, and clock is giving the same time. (pause) We are giving very simple formula: just become Kṛṣṇa conscious and all problems will be solved. All problems.
Dr. Patel: Very easy formula for all the mūḍhas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Like us. (laughs raucously)
Prabhupāda: The Doctor is...
Dr. Patel: Before you came here... You can say anything...
Prabhupāda: This is intelligence. This is not mūḍha ; this is intelligence. Guru mora mūrkha dekhi' koril śāsana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one."
Dr. Patel: So you see me also that way...
Prabhupāda: No. That means He is intelligent. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a fool, that's a fact, but He presented Himself like that. He is most learned, but He presented before guru, "I am useless, worthless." Tṛṇād api sunīcena...
Dr. Patel: I myself, sir, we are all (indistinct) not like you, we are worthless, we people. Unless you understand your worth... We are really worthless.
Prabhupāda: That is very good. / Tṛṇad api sunīcena/ taror api sahiṣṇunā/ amānin mānadena/ kīrtanīya sad hariḥ . That is the qualification for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree, giving all respect to others, expecting no respect for oneself. These are the qualifications to become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁs kṣāntir ārjavam. Amanitva. Although he is very qualified, he says "No, no, no. I have no qualification." Amanitvam. This is amānitvam. (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. This is the beginning of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahims kṣāntir ārjavam. The materialistic, everyone, they're not amānitvam, our, "I'm so respectful."
Dr. Patel: Not "I have done this."
Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't say. This is the philosophy. Amānitvam adambhitvam. Where is that thing? That is taught from the brahmacārī. Brahmacārī, a small boy, he is taught that you become amānitvam adambhitvam, and he accepts it. Because he is small, the brahmacārī, he may becoming from a king's family, but if he's ordered, "My dear boy, take my shoes and brush it," he'll do it, because he's innocent boy. He learns. Therefore brahmacār gurukule vasan dānta. The mode of life should be trained from the brahmacārī.
Dr. Patel: This British public school, sir, they are doing that. The school of Harrow and the Eaton. The first-standard boys have to brush the shoes of the fifth-standard boys, and the fifth to the sixth, and the sixth to the seventh, and first to the second...
Prabhupāda: No, why not to the...
Dr. Patel: And the first boy, his shoes goes to the teacher.
Prabhupāda: Some idea...
Dr. Patel: That is great idea.
Prabhupāda: No. That is also imperfect. Anyway, it is something. Amānitvam adambhitvam: they from the very beginning of their life, they address other's wife as "mother," you see? Matrvat paridaresu. This is culture, to see every woman except his own wife as mother. Where is that culture?
Man: Mahātm Gandhi also changed his life after brahmacārī...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Man: Mahātm Gandhi?
Prabhupāda: We are talking of real mahātmās, not politicians.
Man: No, no. He was changing after brahmacārī, his life.
Prabhupāda: I do not know, but...
Dr. Patel: He took a big vow. He took a big vow at the age of forty-three years. That mahan, mah-vrata, what they call it? For not indulging in sex.
Prabhupāda: That is one of the qualification...
Dr. Patel: That is one of them. But by controlling their sex, people derive much (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That is a fact.
Dr. Patel: Because I think woman is the personification of māyā. You can say that way. The whole thing is revolving round that.
Prabhupāda: But if you become strong, Kṛṣṇa conscious, it may go away. māyām etam taranti te: there is no more māyā.
Dr. Patel: We must be conscious like Mīrābai or gopīs or big, I mean, like (indistinct). When his wife died he said (Hindi), "I will be able to worship God a better way," when he lost his wife. These are the...
Prabhupāda: No, that means he became Kṛṣṇa conscious after his wife was dead. (laughing) Not before!
Dr. Patel: I mean, that is a saying, I mean...
Prabhupāda: Why should I expect the death of my wife?
Dr. Patel: No, his wife died, and he accepted that way. He was not expecting. We are all dead so far as we are Kṛṣṇa conscious...
Prabhupāda: Dhīra means in spite of presence of agitation, if one is not agitated, that is dhira. And if I pray that "Here is the cause of agitation. Let her die," that is not very good. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: No, after she died. You have misunderstood me, sir. You are, you are... Even a great bhakta, , a great Vaiṣṇava bhakta, and I mean I, I don't think he would... He would say...
Prabhupāda: Why should I pray for somebody's death?
Dr. Patel: He never prayed for her to die. (everyone laughing) He prayed that because now he will have less hindrance in the worship of God. That is what he meant.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is God conscious. Vaiṣṇava, vāñch-kalpa-tarubhya ca krp-sindhubhya eva ca. Vaiṣṇava is an ocean of mercy. Why he should, we should expect another death...? No, no, I'm saying... Nobody, no Vaiṣṇava aspires or thinks that "He may be hampered or he may be harmed for my benefit." No.
Dr. Patel: What he says, sir...
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not argument about him. I mean to say, Vaiṣṇava means para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava should be always duḥkhī for others. Vaiṣṇava personally, he has no duḥkha. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja says, naivodhvije para duratyay vaitaranyas tvad-viya-gayana-mahamrta-magna-cittaḥ, soce tato vimukh-cetasa. They are simply anxious for the persons who are godless. That is their... Even they are godless, even they are enemy of the devotee, still Vaiṣṇava thinks, "How I can correct him?" Not that "He's my enemy. Let him die." "How I shall correct him?" That is Vaiṣṇava, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is under ignorance, he is talking nonsense—"How shall I correct him?" That is missionary spirit.
Dr. Patel: Ten minutes. 7.10.
Prabhupāda: So we can go. It is very nice movement... (noise) They have paid already some lakhs, hm?
Girirāja: Ashoka gave three lakhs previously for Vṛndāvana. He said he wants to give more to...
Prabhupāda: ...he's devotee.
Devotee: He said he enjoyed the program very much also.
Prabhupāda: Who said?
Devotee: Ashoka did.
Prabhupāda: Accha? Ashoka 's mother said also.
Girirāja: Well, he also, when we were taking dinner, he came up and he said he enjoyed it.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, he said.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Therefore they did not put any questions.
Dr. Patel: Yes. It is very difficult to put question to you. (Prabhupāda laughs) You mow the opposition down very badly. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: It is all Kṛṣṇa's...
Dr. Patel: I am a shameless man to give questions... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: How long did I speak?
Harikesa: Hm, about forty-five minutes.
Prabhupāda: That is my standard. (Hindi exchange)
Man: In that Birla house.
Prabhupāda: Birla house? Huh.
Girirāja: The program was in the garden.
Man: I was there, in that Birla house.
Prabhupāda: You were in Bombay?
Man: Yes, in that last room, on that other side.
Prabhupāda: ...once. Kīrtanānanda Swami has come, he reported that sometimes these European and Americans, they do not like our version, and sometimes they purchase and tear the books, hm? And still they purchase! (laughs) That is the beauty.
Dr. Patel: Europeans...
Prabhupāda: No, no. In America. Kīrtanānanda was saying. They tear these pages, and again still they purchase. This example is given. Just like hot sugarcane juice. Because it is hot, it cannot be taken. But one cannot avoid tasting it. (laughter) Sugarcane juice hot. Because we speak everything against their so-called knowledge, and still they want to taste it. Hot sugarcane juice.
Dr. Patel: Your this Bhāgavata commentary is really wonderful. I am critically studying now.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Dr. Patel: Second reading of mine. On the first reading I just...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they read our books for the purport.
Dr. Patel: But you have collected from, I mean, two, three, four or five...
Prabhupāda: Dimmock said that "Here is the commentation who has practiced devotion in his life."
Dr. Patel: I mean, those who are research scholars, they can write down better about their work if... If I write down about the...
Prabhupāda: He cannot write the...
Dr. Patel: ...write down that way. Because you have done it, you can do it better.
Prabhupāda: That is our mission. Āpani ācār prabhu jīver śikhāmu. First of all you behave yourself, then teach. Without being accomplished in your life, don't teach. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement was that. Āpani ācār prabhu jīver śikhāmu.
Dr. Patel: You teach by your action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ... alpa citte bahu kori mane. This is the warning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Dr. Patel: The Vaiṣṇavas, I mean teaching is that the Vaiṣṇavas should not see any faults in the sādhus or the sannyāsīs. Just look at the good side, then...
Prabhupāda: No, no. That, you may do that. But that is not a sannyāsī. Sannyāsī is smoking cigarette, drinking tea,...
Dr. Patel: Then they are not sannyāsīs. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hm. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... BG 18.66. (Hindi about Pāgala Bāb in Vṛndāvana) Hm, who goes there? No gentleman goes there.
Dr. Patel: So many people say (Hindi) about these American boys smoking their hashish, their LSD. They are smoking all sorts of things.
Prabhupāda: They have learned from India. The American hippies, they have learned from these so-called rascals. Yes. Ginsberg, he introduced this. He came to India, went to Haridwar, he saw so many rascals, sādhus, smoking gañjā. He thought, "This is the way..."
Dr. Patel: Acchā. Celo.
Prabhupāda: No, (Hindi). Hm.
Dr. Patel: Same thing—our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grand(?) Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science schools. (Hindi) Because their ideal starts from American precedent. The last precedent (president?) was so idealistic, so... (laughing)
Girirāja: A few days back in the newspapers there was..., smoking causes damage to the brain...
Dr. Patel: It causes damage everywhere, because it damages your blood vessel which carries the vital fluid to all the organs. The blood vessels are spoiled and narrowed down so not sufficient amount of blood will get to your brain, to your heart, to your lungs, your everything practically. Follow? This is not one of (indistinct). They smoke this ganja, sir, because artificially they go into a sort of a trance. That is what the psychedelic drugs.
Prabhupāda: That man also says like that.
Dr. Patel: Psychedelic drugs. I mean I read about these psychedelic drugs, and then, you see, this artificial trance, no doubt, that is much different from the samādhi that you get. But they, that is why they are tempted to do it. Same with the LSD. That means they find some sort of a pleasure in it. Sādhus get pleasure in samādhi, they get this artificial samādhi by drugs. Hm?
Prabhupāda: Sādhu, they take pleasure in real happiness. Satyanandi. Rāmante yoginam ante satyananda. They do not know what is satya, so how they will take pleasure?
Dr. Patel: They are ātmārāma.
Prabhupāda: Para satya dhīmahi. They do not know what is para satyam.
Dr. Patel: Temporarily they get this param satyam ... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yogi means satyānanda...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi about temporary pleasure) They go down.
Man: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: The whole, I mean, Japan was practically done, I mean, done to practical death by this opium smoking.
Prabhupāda: In China also. The Britishers, they were taking opium from India and selling there and making money.
Dr. Patel: And now Chinese leaders were rejoicing that American boys smoking LSD. (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupāda: Saurabha, you have brought these logs from Vṛndāvana?
Saurabha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why they are lying idle?
Saurabha: They are not ours, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then why it was brought here?
Saurabha: They will be used for the temple. They will be used for the scaffolding. For those high things. Because otherwise we have to cut them, and it's very waste of money.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Saurabha: If we cut them...
Prabhupāda: No, not cutting.
Saurabha: No. These poles, they all set in size about nine feet. You notice they're about fifteen to eighteen feet. So we use them only for the scaffolding.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...anyhow, they have done it very quickly. Our engineers could not have done it so quickly as that. You are quite fast. And the structure is very strong.
Prabhupāda: (laughter) I say they are quite slow.
Dr. Patel: No, no, but it takes its own time for curing and all these things. How can an engineer accelerate that natural process? And that structure is really extremely strong.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We want to see the temple also. ( kīrtana ) (end)