751216 - Morning Walk - Bombay
Prabhupāda: Their civilization begins from monkey, and our civilization begins from...
Dr. Patel: From Vedas.
Prabhupāda: ...Brahma.
Dr. Patel: From Brahmā actually when he learned the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Those four or five, five or four ślokas, original of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, I want to learn from you. I read all the commentary—you have written commentary for four pages—but I think I am little mūḍha to understand it. (laughing) So I'll learn directly if you can teach me. I am now critically studying your, this thing, commentary on this.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Very good.
Dr. Patel: Once I read it, but now I am doing a critical study of it. Both of Sanskrit as well as your comments. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...divided by separate words.
Dr. Patel: It is written in purport too much (Sanskrit). The combination of this word is so difficult...
Prabhupāda: ...recommended to study Bhāgavata from bhāgavata, not by grammar.
Dr. Patel: No, no. But unless, I mean, I like Sanskrit myself, so I try to learn Sanskrit; I can read other, more Sanskrit books. So it is a sort of a study with me, as well as a knowledge of Bhāgavata. So I am trying to be more critical about it. But that way I have read Bhāgavata in Gujarati, even in Hindi (indistinct) Gorhakpur.
Prabhupāda: ... Viṣṇu Purāṇa.
Dr. Patel: Viṣṇu Purāṇa is (indistinct) from Mahābhārata. It is very easy. Extremely easy.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! (to passerby)
Dr. Patel: Some of the, some people try to poke at us also.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: They are fools.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Dr. Patel: Well, because we, we chant God's name, out of fun they also say. But we...
Prabhupāda: That is also good.
Dr. Patel: That we should not take it like that.
Prabhupāda: If one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa jokingly, that is also good.
Dr. Patel: That's it. Yesterday morning you came?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I thought you were coming tonight. Because you, your letter has come that you reach on the (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: What is that? God says "Let there be creation," and there was creation. Why three months?
Dr. Patel: Ah, that is, we are not... (laughing)
Prabhupāda: He says "Let there be creation"; there was creation.
Dr. Patel: It was the will of God, so this is also the will of God.
Prabhupāda: Here you see, God says, "You come here," immediately you come. "You go there," immediately you go there. (Dr. Patel laughs loudly) You cannot bring the water by your scientific process, immediately. But when God says "Immediately"—within a second. (sound of waves in background) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: I am going to give you a small piece of news. My, that small daughter, she also took first-class, first distinction name.
Prabhupāda: Oh, bolo (?).
Dr. Patel: She also stood first. My son also stood first and got the gold medal. She also got the same, by your grace!
Prabhupāda: (laughs) By Kṛṣṇa's grace.
Dr. Patel: This is unique perfomance in Bombay, that no doctor's two children have got first like this.
Prabhupāda: Hm. All of them, M.D.?
Dr. Patel: M.D. Very distinguished, first class. I was very much pleased... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...one is animal. So animal means ferocious. Dharmeṇa yena pasave samānaḥ. They're as good as animal. You cannot expect any good behavior from animals. This is going on. They want to keep the whole population animal, and they're making big, big plans-United Nations, this, that.
Dr. Patel: This is a problem. It's committed from the poor nations of the world, this United Nations.
Prabhupāda: There is no education for making people a human being.
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hagel and Engels and those people have got this nonsensical idea that interaction of matter itself produces what we call consciousness. It is not the consciousness which I mean agrees with the matter. The very first basis on which this rascaldom is, I mean the basis is this: revolting against the tenets of Hindu teaching. No?
Prabhupāda: Hindu-Muslim teaching...
Dr. Patel: No, I mean sanātana dharma of this country.
Prabhupāda: Sanātana dharma, there is no teaching; it is already there.
Dr. Patel: Yes, that's it.
Prabhupāda: There is no concoction.
Dr. Patel: This concoction has come out from there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, everywhere. In your country also there are so many parties...
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx...
Prabhupāda: Karl Marx maybe. Even your Gandhi-ism, that is also concoction. Gandhi invented nonviolence; it is also concoction. It is impossible. Everyone is doing this—something manufacturing. That is not sanātana dharma. Sanātana dharma is never manufactured. It is already there. You have to accept it, that's all. Otherwise everyone is manufacturing some conncoction. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, "Fight." And Gandhi is teaching from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. Just see! Is it possible?
Dr. Patel: The will of God is the real thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His will is supreme. Whatever He says, that's all. As soon as you manufacture, everything is spoiled.
Dr. Patel: It is fractured by man instead of manufacturing. Fractured, broken.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas te'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhaḥ SB 7.5.31 . Pisa tantrya, under the laws of God or nature, everyone is tied, hands and legs, and he's thinking independently, "I can do that."
Dr. Patel: But slowly and slowly, sir, the modern science is trying to prove that sanātana dharma, the existence of God everywhere. Which in our times, if we respect scientists for their...
Prabhupāda: "They are trying to prove" means so long they are rascals...
Dr. Patel: They are rascals. I quite agree with you. You have caught my rascals. (both laughing)
Prabhupāda: As soon as you say "progressing," that means they are rascals. Unless one is rascal, what is the meaning of progress? Hm? Rascal requires progress.
Dr. Patel: Whether they do progress or regress we don't know, but...
Prabhupāda: No, that progress means still rascals. After ten years they'll make no... This is progress. So they have no standard knowledge, and that is very much palatable, modern progress. Mūḍha.
Dr. Patel: But sincerely by all these six, six, I mean śāstra, I mean what you call darśanals (?), our forefathers have realized God, by all the six methods of darśanas.
Prabhupāda: You, why your forefathers? Everyone's forefather can understand.
Dr. Patel: No, no. Other civilized people's forefathers. (laughs) The Āryan race. Nyāya vaiśeṣika also has told the same thing. This, such śāstra, I mean darśanas, are all from the Vedas. They are all from the Vedas you see.
Prabhupāda: No, they are not strictly Vedas. They are partial. Just like mimāṁsa. They say that you do good work and you get the result. That is godlessness.
Dr. Patel: Karma-mimāṁsa, karma-kāṇḍīs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But a karma-kāṇḍī is one of the...
Prabhupāda: "There is no need of God. You do your duty."
Dr. Patel: And God will do His duty.
Prabhupāda: "God is obliged to give you the award." That is their philosophy. We can practically see: suppose two men working very hard, are they getting the same result?
Dr. Patel: No, that is their karma bandhana...
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! (greeting a few people) Jaya.
Dr. Patel: Your explanation of this is so very wonderful about the all muktas and baddha jīvas in the beginning, I mean the Bhāgavatam, that even people, whether to remain mukta or baddha. And then when they became baddha, they were overtaken by the lower māyā. And then this is the whole cosmos. So gravely I have understood this, just this is my second reading.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa bhuliyā jīve bhagavān akore kari pasate māyā ta're japatiyā kare.
Dr. Patel: I think this one commentary is Jīva Goswami's. Hm?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīva... Not Jīva Goswami. There are... I consult so many others.
Dr. Patel: This commentary is Rūpa Goswami or Jīva Goswami? Jīva Goswami.
Prabhupāda: No, we have got Viśvanātha Cakravartī also. Śrīdhara Swami, Birarāghava, Vijayadvaja. Hare Kṛṣṇa! (to passerby who loudly greets and has Hindi exchange)
Dr. Patel: This man is seventy years old. (more exchange of greetings) He is sixty-eight, sixty-nine years. He will be eighty years, (laughing) he wants to remain young that way.
Prabhupāda: Healthy, he's quite healthy. (Hindi conversation with other man) We repeat simply Kṛṣṇa's statement. That is our... Our mission is "Kṛṣṇa's standard"— yare dekha tare kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Don't manufacture, rascaldom. Simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. And it is simple. And as soon as you try to manufacture, it becomes difficult. How Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made things so easy.
amara ajnaya guru haya tare ei deśa
yare dekha, tare kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
CC Madhya 7.128
That's all. How simple it is. You, every one of us, we take this missionary activities of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we see immediately the face of the country will change. Every gentleman, every sane man, may speak to his family, to his community, to his nation, to his friend, what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then see the result. But they're all manufacturing, conncocting. Becoming big scholars. The more you deviate from Kṛṣṇa's instructions, you become a scholar.
Dr. Patel: I mean the industrial revolution has really produced a sort of a turmoil in the social set-up...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Because the machine has produced good, and the benefit has been taken over by the...
Prabhupāda: Ugra, ugra. This has been described in Bhagavad-gītā, ugra karma.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Ugra karma.
Prabhupāda: Instead of making life simplified, they have made it a turmoil.
Dr. Patel: And then the whole society has been so entangled in this things. Independently (indistinct). In this way this industrialization, raising of the wants of men, and then production for the fulfilling of their wants. Only men engaged all the twenty-four hours in this fulfillment of the wants. All the machines are grinding for that. Production of the goods, not for the good... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...Karl Marx, why not others?
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx is the grandfather of all of this.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is concocting, he is an āsura. Hm? Na vidur āsura ajana (sic). Pravitti ca nivṛtti ca na vidur āsura ajana (sic).
Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) That is what they want. If they are competing with each other from tomorrow...
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya! [break] No. Why Karl Marx? Your Vivekananda says yata mat tata patha: whatever you manufacture, that is all right.
Dr. Patel: That is because you are struck by the utter poverty of the people...
Prabhupāda: No, no...
Dr. Patel: It was temporary, you see. Because here Karl Marx wanted it permanent, and...
Prabhupāda: He himself is suffering from poverty—of knowledge.
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, he committed the greatest sin...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says mam ekaṇ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and Vivekananda says yatha mat tatha path. Just see. He is poverty-stricken of knowledge, and he's giving knowledge. Just see the fun. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said guru more mūrkha dekhī' kori... śāsan: CC Adi 7.71 "My guru found Me, seeing Me, I am a fool number one, he has chastised Me." What is that? "Don't read Vedānta; You cannot understand. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," because...
Dr. Patel: Here we are talking about the divyā part of the...
Prabhupāda: Because, no, He was questioned...
Dr. Patel: ...of the life. I talk of the maintenance of the body. To maintain the body Karl Marx put up this theory and, I mean, spoiled the whole thing—whole society and social set-up.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi to a passerby) Everyone is manufacturing; that is my point. Either Karl Marx or this one or that one, everyone is manufacturing. No one is taking the instruction. And our mission is "Take instruction of Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't manufacture like nonsense. What you'll manufacture? You are imperfect, your senses are imperfect...
Dr. Patel: We are manufacturing only for the body, but all these...
Prabhupāda: Nothing you can manufacture, even in the body. You are medical practitioner, hundreds of men you see, different types of body. Is it not? You cannot say that this is the standard." Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgasya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. The actual disease is the contamination of the guṇa.
Dr. Patel: But they desire the people who are manufacturing for the guṇas only, and not for the soul. That is what I am hinting at.
Prabhupāda: That is another ignorance. That is another ignorance.
Dr. Patel: These fellows... That is what I said. That they are ignorant because they are only doing anything for the body and not for the soul.
Prabhupāda: Always guṇatīta. They do not understand traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Everyone is contaminated by the...
Dr. Patel: All the lower, all this knowledge is no doubt traigunya. Superior knowledge. But spiritual knowledge is beyond the three guṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate BG 14.26 . We have to transcend all these guṇas, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now they are realizing even in Western countries...
Dr. Patel: But they will realize (Hindi). They will learn it by...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi, makes Patel laugh) Kṛṣṇa juta maro ha mam kavi ne jan...
Dr. Patel: (laughing heartily) ...you are very hard...
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of vihāya ? (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: We tolerate everything. (more Hindi) The whole civilization, the modern civilization, is wholly at fault. Unfortunate. And that is the schools we are sending our children to, and these are the public schools.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi about the Gurukula in Vṛndāvana)
Dr. Patel: They're getting (indistinct) of knowledge, after all they will (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: We are opening gurukula, but who will give? A gentleman will not give. Hare Kṛṣṇa! (man stops and Patel introduces him)
Dr. Patel: He's a great scholar and poet of Gujarati literature, and he comes from the same place where the... Bet, he's from Bet, Dvaraka-bet, where all those temples are.
Prabhupāda: He's a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Yes, he's a brāhmaṇa devotee of Kṛṣṇa. And a great teacher, he was at university, a professor of Gujarati literature and a great, well-renowned poet...
Prabhupāda: So you do not come to our temple?
Man: Don't believe what he says! (laughter) I am just a humble servant.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Gopī bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsanudāsa...
Dr. Patel: He only writes poems on God, Mr. Bethai. His name is Bethai, because he comes from the Bet.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Dr. Patel: Dvaraka-bet.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali:) ... puri sankhe bole mane ram. That don't go to any... Sit down anywhere and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Places of worship are sacred because of the, because sacred people are living there.
Prabhupāda: Govinda caraṇa kara sau —always think of Govinda caraṇa. Prahlāda Mahārāja also. Mukundaṁ caraṇambujam. Make this business only. And Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī also, he, "Don't execute dharma, neither commit sinful life. Simply think of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet." Kṛṣṇa also says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto...
Dr. Patel: Sir, lotus feet; these are, these people are actually putting such a long varga, I am trying to see the lotus feet of God here, arca-vigraha. Well, I am unable. Instruct them to put up, little varga up, so that we can have darśana of His sacred feet. Please. Tell them. Too long vargas, you simply can't see anything. You were there on...
Girirāja: That's in the morning, because of the night dresses. But after the śṛṅgara is changed for the day, you can see.
Prabhupāda: How He's sat tight to call everyone to come and see. Hm? The municipality came to drive Him away.
Dr. Patel: You see the present municipal, I mean, administration has fallen into the hands of rogue rascals and horrid people, you know, because of these so-called arald(?) franchise... (end)