721227 - Conversation - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

721227R1-BOMBAY - December 27, 1972 - 32:20 Minutes

Prabhupāda: They think that, "Now I have become this position, it will continue." But how long it will continue? They do not care for this.

śeṣāḥ sthāvaram icchanti

kim āścaryam ataḥ param

(Mahābhārata, Vana-parva 313.116)

The Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja was asked by Dharmarāja, "What is the most wonderful thing in this world?" He explained that:

ahany ahani lokāni

gacchanti yama-mandiram

(Mahābhārata, Vana-parva 313.116)

Every moment millions of people are dying. Śeṣāḥ sthāvaram icchanti. But those who are not dying, he's thinking that, "I will not die. I will stay in my this position. Therefore I don't care for anything." This is most wonderful. Everyone is thinking that "I shall continue." He forgets that at any moment he'll be kicked out.

That he does not know. So long he lives, he thinks, "It is my permanent position." That is mistake, the greatest mistake. Everyone is thinking. That is the most wonderful thing. Nobody thinks that, "I'll have to die, I'll have to take another body, I'll have to change the whole atmosphere, and what I am preparing for that?" Nobody thinks. This is the defect of the civilization.

Indian lady: That must be due to māyā?

Prabhupāda: Huh? This is māyā, illusion. He's thinking that, "This is my permanent position." Any moment you can be finished. That he does not take seriously. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā:

janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-

duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam

(BG 13.9)

You have become confident that you are happy, but do you consider janma, mṛtyu, jarā, vyādhi? What you have done for this? Can you stop death? Can you stop birth? Can you stop disease? Can you stop old age? Then, what you have made solution? If these miserable condition of life are there, then what is the value of your scientific advancement?

This is the essence of material life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to stop this problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. That is conclusion. How scientific movement it is. People should try to understand solution of the all problems. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti. No more birth. If there is no more birth, there is no more death, because death is for him who takes birth. One who does not take birth, that is deathless. There is no question.

People should know this most important scientific movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, either by following our principles or, if he wants to understand, there are so many books. It is not a blind, sentimental movement. Vimukta-māninaḥ. It is not like that. Vimukta-māninaḥ. Just like this morning, one gentleman came. He is thinking that "I am doing so great service."

Indian guests: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. But when he was tested, he is nothing, zero. Just see. But he is thinking that, "I am doing." (break) . . . with fire, the fire will act, even you do not know that it is fire. This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. He does not know that he is making little progress in spiritual life.

He does not know. But it is. Ajñāta-sukṛti. Janma koṭibhiḥ sukṛti. Sukṛtino 'rjuna, this sukṛti will act some next, some after life. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā it is said:

catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ

sukṛtino 'rjuna

(BG 7.16)

Sukṛtino. It is sukṛti. He does not know. But when the sukṛti is accumulated, then in one life he'll become devotee.

catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ

sukṛtino 'rjuna

ārto arthārthī jijñāsur

jñānī ca bharatarṣabha

(BG 7.16)

So somehow or other if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are benefited. You are benefited. Because you have captured the real path. Real path.

api cet su-durācāro

bhajate mām ananya-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

(BG 9.30)

Become sādhu. If anyone seriously takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately he becomes a sādhu. Sadhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇām (SB 3.25.21). He's samyag vyavasito.

api cet su-durācāro

bhajate mām ananya-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

(BG 9.30)

He has actually come to the real path of life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? This morning we were discussing from Bhagavad-gītā, and we were saying that in our bodies there are so many living entities, billions and billions of living entities, each with a spirit soul. Not only Supersoul, but spirit soul. But we, I, the spirit soul, myself, I am controlling over all of these other living entities.

Prabhupāda: You are not controlling. You are amongst them, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, maybe amongst them, but maybe the strongest of them.

Prabhupāda: Not strongest, you are one of them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Not strongest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The question I have was that at the time of death, when I leave this body . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . they don't leave this body, do they?

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore they come out. As soon as the body is decomposed, they come out. Therefore the rascal theory that death means the living ingredient is missing, it is no more there, so that argument cannot be forwarded, because unless the living ingredients are there in the body, how these living entities are coming out? How it is possible?

And this proves that the man, that the living entity which . . . who has left this body, he is individual. Although the facilities for generating life is there, but he is not coming; therefore he is individual. He has gone. Just like if I go from this room, you remain. That means I am individual, you are also individual. We are sitting together. I go away. So that does not mean you are also going out with me.

Indian lady: And the soul takes rebirth?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I go from this room, I go to another room. That is rebirth. When I go from this room, everyone will understand that, "Swāmījī has gone to the other room." Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Therefore, one who is sober, he is not astonished.

One who is rascal, he can, "Oh, Swāmījī's gone." So what is gone? (laughter) Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Therefore, those who are dhīra, sober, he is not bewildered. "That's all right. He has left this body. He has got another body. That's all."

Indian lady: Immediately after death one gets rebirth?

Prabhupāda: Immediately. Immediately. Immediately he enters in the womb of another mother, according to his karma.

Indian lady: For all human beings?

Prabhupāda: According to karma. It is not guaranteed that he'll be human being. He may go to a hog's mother's womb if his activities are like that. Therefore this is foolishness. He is thinking, "Now I am very secure. I have got this position, I have got this bank balance, I have got this house." He does not know by his activities he may be forced to enter in the womb of a hog's mother and come out as a hog. That he does not know. This science is not taught. But this is a fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir.

It is not said that he is going to have again human body. Dehāntara: another body. Another body means there are 8,400,000's of bodies. So one has to accept any one of them according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva . . . just like we have got this apartment. Now you have arranged . . . superior authority has arranged that, "Prabhupāda, you come to this apartment." If it was not available, I might have gone to some slum. If it was not possible to come to this nice apartment, then I have to go somewhere. Somewhere I have to take shelter. Then I will accept, "All right. This slum is all right."

But these rascals, they do not understand that I am in this apartment, nice apartment, and next I may have to accept apartment in the slum. That is . . . he is fixed up, "Oh, I am so happy." Where is your happiness? At any moment you will be kicked out, and if you do not make arrangement for better room, better apartment, then you are lost. Apartment you have to accept, but where is that apartment? That is . . .

Therefore it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān. If you are deva-vratā, then you go to the higher planets, the moon planet, heavenly planet, your apartment is there. Pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ: if you are karma-kāṇḍīya, then you go to the Pitṛloka apartment. Bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni: if you are not so advanced, then you remain here somewhere. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām: and if you prepare yourself to go back to home, back to . . . you can go.

So why should you waste my time going to another slum? Why not back to home, back to Godhead? This is intelligence. This is intelligence. Otherwise all fools. They do not know where they are going. While living in this apartment I am asking him that find out some other, because I have to get out. (laughs) That is intelligence. And when the one month is finished, he says: "Get out please," then? Then I will have to accept no better than a slum.

This is human life. This is consciousness, that I will have to leave this apartment and I have to accept another apartment. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma. So what kind of apartment I am going to get? That is also stated:

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

(BG 9.25)

You can select. If you want to go to the apartment of demigods, you can go there. Just prepare yourself for the rent and money. This is human life.

But they are just like animals, simply just like the cats and dogs. They do not know what is going to happen next life. They have no understanding. This rascal civilization is like that: just working hard like animals, like asses, and they are thinking, "My position is very secure."And one day nature says: "Please give up this position. Get out. Please get out." "No, no, I have got this . . ." "No, no sir. You will now get out. Please get out immediately." This is foolishness. Mūḍhā.

They do not know what is the objective of life. And they are very much advanced in education, in science, in business. Andhā yathāndhair . . . they do not know where he's going. Just like andhā. The blind man, he does not know where he is going, and he is becoming leader. He does not know where he is going, and he is leading other. You see?

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not andhās, not blind. They are giving right direction, "You do this, you will go to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa here says, just see, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām: "You come to Me." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). It is the direction. Why don't you take it, you rascal? Why you are hovering in mental concoction? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are giving the right direction. We are the . . . suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ, we are the best friends of the human society. Best friend. They may not understand it, but we are the best friend. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ.

We are friends of all living entities—not only human society, but all society. We are feeling, "Why there should be so much animal killing?" No rascal is feeling. No rascal is feeling. We are feeling because we are suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ. We are friend of every living entity. We are feeling. We are crying, "Oh, this poor animal is taken to the slaughterhouse." We felt. These rascals, the leaders, they will not feel. They are so rascal, and they are leaders. That is the cause of all distresses of this material world: the rascals are taking leadership. They do not know how to lead. Kṛṣṇa is coming, personally showing, "This is the way."

sarva-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja

ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi . . .

(BG 18.66)

He is giving leading. But people will not accept it. So unfortunate. Personally He is giving leadership; nobody will accept that. What that . . . (indistinct) . . . speaking? That . . . who told me? You. What is the . . . did he speak?

Girirāja: That "Kṛṣṇa is not Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: They say: "Kṛṣṇa is not Kṛṣṇa." That's it. Then what He is? He says: "I am Kṛṣṇa"; Vyāsadeva says: "He is Kṛṣṇa"; Nārada says: "He is Kṛṣṇa"; Rāmānujācārya says: "Kṛṣṇa"; Lord Caitanya says: "He is Kṛṣṇa." And he has become so great, greater than Vyāsadeva, Nārada and Rāmānujācārya.

He says: "No, Kṛṣṇa is not . . ." Just see the foolishness. This is the foolishness. Simply wastes time. His uncle has written one book, Ranguparnata. Simply has wasted time, that's all. We can understand from the book, from the preacher of the book, it was printed three hundred years ago and stock is lying there.

And our book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and others, we just printed 50,000, it is all sold, second days. From the preacher of the book we can understand. We are getting reports from outside India, every center says five times increased book-selling. And what they have made profit in New York? $240,000?

Śyāmasundara: $245,000 in six months.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I went to America. (laughter) Because I know there is intelligent man. Here they are all foolish. Being downtrodden for thousands of years under foreign subjugation, they have lost everything. Nonsense. Out . . . everything! I tried to start this movement from here. I was disappointed.

Therefore, I decided I shall go to America. They have lost everything—their culture, their civilization, their religion, their mode of living. Simply because it is a great culture, still we find some gentlemen because it is coming out of their heritage. Because a great family, a person belong to a great family, although he becomes poverty-stricken, he cannot give up his family style. That is India's position. Because it belongs to a great civilization, still lingering. Otherwise they have given up.

Indian civilization they have given everything. The government has given everything. All these leaders, they have given everything. Otherwise, how cow slaughtering is going on in India? How it is going on? They have lost everything, all sense of civilization. How is it possible in India, cow slaughtering? This Bhārata-varṣa, puṇya-bhūmi. They have become so rascals. And this so-called president, they are giving . . . taking high salaries and giving sanction for cow slaughter.

That Dr. Radhakrishnan, yes I have seen, last year. And he is scholar. If he would have a little sense of religious life, he would not accept. "What I am going to take, accept this position? My salary will be drawn by cow slaughtering, and I will have to accept this position?" No. "Let the cows be slaughtered, let the people go to hell, I don't mind. Get me my salary, that's all." Leader. "My comfortable position." But he does not know that he will be kicked out, and he is being kicked out; nobody will know where he has gone.

So this is called ignorance. Paśyati jñāna-cakṣusā. One has to see through the jñāna-cakṣusā. There in Western countries they were not trained up since centuries, so their position may be different. But in India, where this culture, Vedic culture, the people have fallen so much, how much regrettable it is.

So it is a very important, great movement. Therefore, I invite all intelligent men to come and join and give relief to the suffering humanity. It is not ordinary movement. That is the best service: to raise them, their help in their Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Best service. One gentleman came, Mr. Bose? He came from Chicago?

Devotee: Philadelphia.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Philadelphia. He is there for the last fifty years?

Devotee: Fifty years.

Prabhupāda: So, Indian gentleman, Mr. Bose. So he was appreciating, "Swāmījī, you are giving . . ." He is an American, I mean to say, a permanent American resident. So he knows—he is educated—what is the position, that in spite of so much comforts of material life, they cannot sleep, they require tranquilizer tablet. So we were giving this new kind of formula, he was very much appreciating.

Actually this is the position. In spite of . . . there is no scarcity. In America, there is no question of scarcity. Enough food, enough apartment, enough money, everything is enough. But they still require tranquilizer tablet. Just see. Thousands of thousands of tablets are sold daily. Is it not? What do you think?

(aside to Śyāmasundara) Your father also takes? Yes. (laughter)

Śyāmasundara's father, he is very rich man, good lawyer, he has got enough money, four motorcars, good wife, but tranquilizer he takes. He said: "My father requires this sleeping."

Śyāmasundara: Every night he must take, or he will not sleep.

Prabhupāda: Of course, he may be sorry his only son is lost. (laughter) He has left home, father, mother. Sisters also, they are . . . that is America.

Śyāmasundara: Everyone loses their children in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Beautiful children. The sister, when first she came, I thought some doll is coming. So beautiful, nice. (laughter) In London she first met me from Germany. So beautiful, nice girl. She wanted to join us?

Śyāmasundara: She's having problems. She's thinking of joining us.

Prabhupāda: Another sister, she married thrice?

Śyāmasundara: Fourth time just recently.

Prabhupāda: Four times.

Śyāmasundara: She's twenty-eight.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-eight years old; in the meantime she has married four times. So this is going on. (someone at door) So Sarasvatī-devī is engaged for opening door? That's nice.

Yamuna: (indistinct) . . . says that . . . (indistinct) . . . is in the white zone. Nobody here has a car.

Śyāmasundara: Car? (break)

Prabhupāda: By God's grace, you American boys, you are taking it. You take this movement very seriously. Preach it. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Your life will be successful, and people will be happy. Para-upakāra. It was enjoined by Caitanya Mahaprabhu:

bharata bhumite manusya janma haila jara

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

So Indians, they are coming very slowly, but you preach on behalf of me. Of course, I am Indian also. (laughter)

Indian lady: That is going on saṁskāras also. Saṁskāra.

Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra you can make. I went to America because Guru Mahārāja ordered me, although I was old, seventy years old. But I thought it wise, "Let me try in this old age." But because I had no other motive, therefore it has become successful. I did not go there to earn money or bluff people or cheat them. I went to go . . . I went to give them something. That was my motive. Kārtikeya, you take this movement seriously. You are nice boy.

Kārtikeya: Am I not taking? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have taken that much. I am encouraging more, more. Both husband and wife.

Kārtikeya: My children are taking.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Good child. The spirit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be pushed for the benefit of the whole world. People are realizing. Now that Dr. Singal came. So he secured some advertisement. He went to twenty places. Out of nineteen people gladly accepted, "Yes." One man is stubborn, he said: "No, we are not going to contribute anything religious." That . . .

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He is thinking that he is secure, in his spot.

(pause) All right.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Haribol. Jaya Prabhupāda. (end)