Room Conversation Kaviraja Visit-- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana
Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: What you are going to say?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are we going to do? What am I going to say?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the real factor is Your Divine Grace's desire. I mean it seems like... As your disciples, our duty is to help you fulfill your desire. It seems like your desire is to die in Vṛndāvana. But it's very hard for us to execute that service. It's very hard—because we love you—to assist you in dying. It's a paradox. You want to die in Vṛndāvana, and we want you to live, and yet we have to do whatever you want. I mean, the kavirāja, he is giving some... He feels a little confident. Probably from medical point of view, there's no doubt, he has far superior knowledge than many of us.
Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara has not yet...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Viśvambhara has not come yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean for the past few days you've been saying that you want to live. Now suddenly you say that you want to die. Maybe that's simply to discourage us from... Because you feel too weak now. There's so many conflicting...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: Do you understand? He's saying that "As a physician, in this condition, I wouldn't advise you to go. But if you desire to go there, then I have enough confidence in my medicine, and since you have the will, so I can assure you I can take you over there safely. Now it's up to you whether you want to go or whether you want to stay." He's saying that if you stay here for ten more days, then you'll become strong enough and you can travel. And he's willing to come back again after about a week, and then he'll stay here for a day or two and then take him.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think that's a good idea. Don't you, Mahārāja?
Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying that... Śrīla Prabhupāda wants to stay here, but we want him to take...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to stay here, that's a fact.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that?
Bhakti-caru: Water intake, liquid.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much urine has he passed since six o'clock this morning? Six o'clock this morning?
Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda.
Brahmānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda?
Bhakti-caru: Two hundred and twenty.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole day?
Bhakti-caru: No, since six.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the whole day?
Bhakti-caru: The whole day it's 320.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Brahmānanda: Just translating what the doctor is saying. If there's any risk, Prabhupāda, in traveling, then you shouldn't take that risk. The doctor will come back here next week and then we can see.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: In the morning the symptom was that.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: He's saying, from the treatment point of view, it's best if Śrīla Prabhupāda stays here for ten more days.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tell him that the only reason we had any reservation about that was because if some side effect develops, then he is not here to help, and we have to take the help of this other person, who we do not trust.
Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: He's saying that now his medicine started working. So he'll give one day's medicine, and he's confident that that medicine will work.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One day's?
Bhakti-caru: Seven days. And apart from that, he's saying that that boy, he has got confidence in him that whatever instruction he gives, he will follow. He is going to follow that, not like other physicians. He wouldn't try to administer his own medicine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but supposing there's a symptom which he has not predicted at this time?
Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: He says that nothing will happen. He's saying that the main thing... He found out the main defect in the body. He's saying that if anything is wrong, then we can ring him up and he'll come immediately.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Indian man (1): Next time, when he comes, make arrangement to stay for a long time.
Bhakti-caru: Say, at least about a week, so that he can stay here for about a week. This time he came absolutely unprepared.
Prabhupāda: Turn me this way.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Bhakti-caru: Mahārāja, do you have the urine report?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you go in my file under "M"? There's a folder, an envelope, a big envelope.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said that...
Indian man (1): Prabhupāda should not speak to anybody.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should not speak to anybody. Well that's all right with me, but whether Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Don't allow guests.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this parikrama? Prabhupāda feels that that must go on.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Indian man (1): If he insists on going on parikrama, he can give a special medicine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's pretty insistent.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So is this all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That we'll wait here for another week to ten days, and Shastriji will give us medicine. The kavirāja will give us medicine, and you can take it for another week or so. After a week's time he'll come back, and then, after a few days, he'll take you to Māyāpura.
Prabhupāda: At least at present this decision will be good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This decision is good. He says that you should not do so much talking, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I'll not talk.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For about ten days.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've never seen this possible, though. (laughter) You always speak of Kṛṣṇa. That is your life and soul, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. He says if you insist on going on parikrama, then he will give you a little medicine which will help you.
Prabhupāda: Parikrama must be there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four times? That's all right. Three times around, into the temple, and one more time. That will be nice. Four times. Is that all right? Will that be all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: We have given four times.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're doing a lot more than four now. We do about ten. Smara-hari knows because he carries you. (laughs) So then we'll make this program, Śrīla Prabhupāda? And you should keep making the effort, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to get better. Kṛṣṇa may desire for you to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. At least it is our duty to pray like that.
Kavirāja: (Hindi) Telephone... (Hindi) ...any time.
Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: So... In Bengali there is such thing, "When you hesitate, don't do it."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we also sometimes feel that when there's a hesitation, it seems like the Supersoul is giving indication.
Prabhupāda: But he has not also come? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatji?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has not come yet.
Prabhupāda: So when he will come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I am also beginning to wonder. He was supposed to come by at least four or five o'clock. I'm sure he'll have a good reason, but until he comes I cannot speculate on why he's late.
Prabhupāda: It will be late. The other person, whether they will come at night?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that's probably why he is late, because they would only come at night. That's my... Last time this was also done at about this time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. These men work all day in the court, and they can't come until the evening.
Prabhupāda: And suppose he does not come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if he does not come, then I'll have to find out why he didn't come.
Prabhupāda: And then you will have to postpone. They'll have to postpone.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if they don't come, then certainly we'll have to postpone this signing, because they won't be here. Are you feeling up to signing anything tonight? I don't think so. You feel a little too much... You can do? Let us see if they come. I think they're going to come. Of course, it is getting pretty late. Anyway, we'll see.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Quarter to nine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In any case, you're not at any loss. You're laying here. Just I think now I'll turn off the light. Do you like some little kīrtana? Singing? You haven't been having kīrtana lately in your room very much, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Anyway, if you like, we'll just keep it quiet here and turn off the light. Would you prefer that?
Prabhupāda: Light you can keep. Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have to give the key to the door. I keep the door locked when I'm not in the room.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (whispering) I made two members today for the Institute.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you stay longer on this planet, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that will make this movement stronger. That is the real reason for living longer. 'Cause you are a pure devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, you have no personal desire. This is Kṛṣṇa's movement. If you stay longer, then this movement will become stronger and stronger. Simply by your presence the devotees become inspired and they work much better. We can understand that there's nothing to lament if you were to depart, because you're always going to be with Kṛṣṇa. But we would have to lament from our own point of view that we would lose you, at least in the way that we have you now. And the whole world would lament because this movement might not be as strong if you were not present.
Prabhupāda: Then make this arrangement, one week or ten days.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are doing that. We have already agreed to that. Actually I could see from the very beginning that that's what we're going to do, but sometimes I feel it is my duty to give good arguments for some opposite opinion just to see both sides. Ultimately we are prepared to be with you wherever you want to be. To us that is home. That is our great pleasure, to be with you. So we're making that arrangement, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break] (offers obeisances) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Do you think that without finishing this business we shall go?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without finishing the business of these, this legal business? Oh, yes, this legal business is not what would keep us here.
Prabhupāda: Then how it will... How it will be done?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean it can be executed in Māyāpura as well.
Prabhupāda: How?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Das, our friend from Calcutta, can come. It's pretty much now... It's already drafted, and... It would just have to be redrafted again on new stamp paper or the words would have to be changed. It would have to be retyped on stamp paper from Bengal side. The basic writing is...
Prabhupāda: That means unfinished despite unfinished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Hm? It is past nine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So maybe this is the reason we're not going.
Prabhupāda: No. Even if we decide to go, that means despite unfinishing...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I really don't feel that this would be enough of a reason to stay here. The whole consideration of whatever we do is your health. That is the major consideration. Our going was on account of your health; our staying now is on account of your health. These other things may be done or not. That doesn't matter. I work all day doing all of your other businesses only because I know your health is well looked after. Otherwise, if I thought it wasn't, I would drop whatever else I'm doing and simply do this, take care of you here. There's so many qualified men doing that, so I don't... I'm engaging myself in your other businesses. Otherwise the main thing is that first of all you should be..., we should try to help you to get better. And if I say, "If you want to take rest, you take rest and don't be worried that this business may not get done tonight." That is not the issue at all.
Prabhupāda: But how is that they did not come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very strange. I must admit I'm very surprised, very, very surprised. I think the only possible answer to it can be that the work itself is difficult work, plus there must have been some other works that either the lawyer had to do or the notary had to do, and so it just could not... I mean after all, this was very, very quickly done. When we decided that we were going to go, it was only on Monday. That means yesterday morning that we decided that we were going to leave. So I mean from yesterday morning until tonight is practically not even... It's hardly enough time to do the legal work that we wanted to do. It was a real strain. Actually it would have been very surprising if we do get it done by tonight. That would be very surprising.
Prabhupāda: I don't think. It is past nine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You don't think they'll come now. No, I also don't think. I mean it's not good etiquette to come at this hour for business. It's nearly nine-thirty, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean I don't think that... If you'll permit me to request them, even if they do come now, that we do it on another day, then I would prefer to do that. Oh, I hear Bhagatji. (goes and returns) So they're all here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So we can go to Māyāpura now. (laughs) So I better... First I'll have to go through all the documents and see that they're in order. Then I'll bring them in here and we'll finish this business.
Prabhupāda: Then let us go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) You want to go to Māyāpura?
Prabhupāda: As you are saying, I'll go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I mean you guide us. As you say, we will do. There's no... The doctor advises, "Better to remain." His medical opinion is that you should wait here for another ten days.
Prabhupāda: So do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said the only reason... He said, "However, if you really feel that you want to go," he says, "I guarantee you that there will be no risk." That he promises. If you want to go, there will not be risk. But from a medical point of view he says, "I advise you to get stronger before making the trip, because it will be easier."
Prabhupāda: So do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's our program. We're going to wait here ten days. After seven days, doctor is coming back. Kavirāja is coming back. He'll also by that time have arranged so that when he comes he can stay even up to a week if necessary.
Prabhupāda: And I'll get some strength.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's his point, yes. He feels confident that you'll get strength. Is that all right? I'll go now and... [break]
Prabhupāda: So somebody else come near me. Tamāla?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: If somebody has come from Delhi, in that car could not come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone has come from Delhi. The cars came.
Prabhupāda: But... No, no. It could not come in time.
Bhakti-caru: They couldn't come in time.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The cars only came here by four o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it seems like it was Kṛṣṇa's desire that we didn't go. I was pretty shocked when I saw that the cars only arrived by four o'clock in the morning. There was no way that we would have been able to go on time.
Prabhupāda: So what is to be done now?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is to be done now? Well, we're going to stay here for ten days or so, and you'll get better. When you get stronger, then we can attempt this trip. We have to hope that you'll get stronger now. Did you take all the medicine, Bhakti-caru, from the kavirāja?
Bhakti-caru: Yes. He made all the medicines till eleven o'clock.
Prabhupāda: So we shall wait. We shall wait.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. No, that was the best program, to wait some time. We were feeling a little bit happy to get this good kavirāja, so naturally we were thinking to stay where he could give you more close attention. But he also felt that to wait for some time was best. Did you pass a comfortable night?
Prabhupāda: As usual. Bhavānanda was reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Now Jayādvaita, you read.
Jayādvaita: I can read, or Akṣayānanda Mahārāja is here with the report about the program last night.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is Akṣayānanda?
Jayādvaita: Here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Akṣayānanda: They enjoyed... We showed them the New Vrindaban film, Hindi. They enjoyed it very much. Also they asked us to speak. They said, "But don't speak anything about the Gītā ."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?
Akṣayānanda: Yes. They said, "You can speak what you like about ISKCON, but we know all about Gītā. Don't speak anything about Gītā. Tell us about the progress of ISKCON." So I read out how many books have been printed and distributed since Your Divine Grace started ISKCON, how many farms you've established, how many centers, how many devotees all over the world and like that. They're very dry. But nonetheless, the film was so nice that they were very much impressed by it. They took prasādam . They enjoyed it very much.
Prabhupāda: "Don't speak of Gītā "?
Akṣayānanda: Yes. " Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna, " but "Don't speak of Gītā. " It's foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Now the danger is māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa CC Madhya 6.169 . So Vṛndāvana is full of Māyāvādīs. Do you accept it? And I am afraid our men may be influenced. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's clear saying- māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Hm? What is to be done? [break] They are coming to our Vṛndāvana temple, Bombay temple. What is their purpose? They may occupy it? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they can't occupy it.
Prabhupāda: So we have to be very careful. Hm?
Akṣayānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Akṣayānanda? And Tamāla?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they're not going to get in. From now on we're going to have a sign on all of our temples, "No Māyāvādī Meetings Allowed."
Prabhupāda: It is clearly written, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śu... Sixth Chapter. Hm? The Sarvabhauma...
Bhavānanda: One sixty-nine.
jīvera nistāra lāgi' sūtra kaila vyāsa
māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa
CC Madhya 6.169
That's Sixth Chapter, Madhya-līlā, verse 169. "Śrīla Vyāsadeva presented the Vedānta philosophy for the deliverance of conditioned souls, but if one hears the commentary of Śaṅkarācārya, everything is spoiled." Shall I read the purport, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhavānanda: Purport: "Factually the devotional service of the Lord is described in Vedānta-sūtra, but the Māyāvādī philosophers, the Śaṅkarites, prepared a commentary known as Śārīraka-bhāṣya, in which the transcendental form of the Lord is denied. The Māyāvādī philosophers think that the living entity is identical with the Supreme Soul, Brahman. Their commentaries on Vedānta-sūtra are completely opposed to the principle of devotional service. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore warns us to avoid these commentaries. If one indulges in hearing the Śaṅkarite Śārīraka-bhāṣya, he will certainly be bereft of all real knowledge. The ambitious Māyāvādī philosophers desire to merge into the existence of the Lord, and this may be accepted as sāyujya-mukti. However, this form of mukti means denying one's individual existence. In other words, it is a kind of spiritual suicide. This is absolutely opposed to the philosophy of bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga offers immortality to the individual conditioned soul. If one follows the Māyāvādī philosophy, he misses his opportunity to become immortal after giving up the material body. The immortality of the individual person is the highest perfectional stage a living entity can attain."
Prabhupāda: Who were..., was present all through in the meeting?
Akṣayānanda: Rāma-Kṛṣṇa Bajaj was there. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, you were there?
Akṣayānanda: I was there.
Prabhupāda: So what the gosvāmīs said?
Akṣayānanda: Well, last night they didn't speak anything. They just heard our film and lecture. That's all. They didn't speak anything last night. Actually they are very impressed.
Prabhupāda: Who was impressed?
Akṣayānanda: All the people. They all...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's asking about the Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs, Puruṣottama Gosvāmī, Viśvambhara Gosvāmī...
Akṣayānanda: Oh, I see. No, they were not there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but they were there in the afternoon. You didn't see them, but they were there.
Akṣayānanda: Oh, I see. We didn't stay all through in the afternoon.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's point is that all of the gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana were attending.
Akṣayānanda: What did they say to Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they're attending, Bon Mahārāja, so that means the whole of Vṛndāvana has become Māyāvādī, because they're all attending this meeting. Our men should not attend this meeting any more, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, just see the, how they have functioned. It is our place. We should guard. So, and all the men were accommodated in their room?
Akṣayānanda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They could all fit in the meeting room?
Akṣayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And who was presiding?
Akṣayānanda: The Aurobindo.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That guy's a pakka Māyāvādī. That Aurobindo man?
Prabhupāda: Aurobind.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He had a big argument with Brahmānanda. Not a big argument, but he was challenging Brahmānanda that "Kṛṣṇa means the divine consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is not a person. He is the... It is divine consciousness."
Prabhupāda: Māyāvāda.
Akṣayānanda: I have a plan, Prabhupāda. Myself and Bhakti-prema Swami can go there and sit, and if we hear any discrepancies, if we are given a chance afterwards, which we can arrange, to speak something, then we can rectify—in a gentlemanly way, of course. We can rectify. If we sit there, at least we know that they'll be careful what they say. And he can catch any finer points that I would miss, 'cause it's all in Hindi.
Prabhupāda: They are speaking in Hindi.
Akṣayānanda: Everything's in Hindi, the whole thing. No English whatsoever.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then there's no chance of our men becoming...
Akṣayānanda: Our men can't understand anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good advantage.
Akṣayānanda: But for the purpose of maintaining our proper position, we can sit there and hear what they're saying, and when an opportunity is there we can rectify.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Bhakti-prema may agree with them.
Akṣayānanda: No, no, he's... No. No, no
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He used to be a Māyāvādī.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. But he understands fully this philosophy and accepts it.
Prabhupāda: So this is the position. The whole Vṛndāvana is full of Māyāvādīs. We have to be very, very cautious and careful. I was there. That Brahmānanda protested against that Aurobindo. And then "Don't speak of Gītā. "
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's what they told him.
Jayādvaita: They shouldn't speak of Gītā. They should speak of whatever other thing they want.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then why call it Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna?
Jayādvaita: That's Prabhupāda's premise. He's establishing Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayādvaita: The actual establishment of Bhagavad-gītā is being done by Your Divine Grace. They should admit that "We have our philosophy, but as far as Bhagavad-gītā goes, Śrīla Prabhupāda is establishing it all over the world. We have something else, our own idea." They can say that.
Prabhupāda: Now find out the way how to stop this class of men speaking in our halls.
Akṣayānanda: That's not difficult. We simply... We conduct our own meetings, that's all, Bhaktivedanta Institute.
Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, one thing is that in Bombay... I mean we really don't have a very attractive hall here, but in Bombay we have the most attractive air-conditioned hall of any place that has a religious temple. All of these people will want to speak in our hall. Not only these people will want to speak in our hall, but all of the nonsense theater people will want to perform there.
Prabhupāda: So we must charge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if we charge, they're going to speak nonsense. If we don't mind speaking nonsense, then it's all right. Otherwise, just like Shubhalakshmi, she may want to give some concert in our hall as a benefit. But she's going to simply sing nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhavānanda? Where is Bhavānanda?
Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So, if they pay, we shall allow?
Bhavānanda: I don't think so, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Just like yesterday, I was noticing in their afternoon meeting, they had microphone, and you could hear the speakers outside. I was thinking that this Māyāvādī... Someone is speaking Māyāvādī philosophy, it's polluting the boys. Even you don't understand Hindi, the sound vibration itself is polluting. You once told me, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that to even hear Sanskrit Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the mouth of a Māyāvādī, it will poison you. Even you don't understand, just the sound vibration coming from that source is polluting. So what is the necessity for us to rent out our facility to them?
Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Well, the point is that we have not built these temples for profit-making basis. We have built these temples to demonstrate to the world an ideal, perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we are going to allow these people to come here, that means we're compromising. Then we should have gone into business...
Prabhupāda: Just like to take advertisement in the magazine. Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's the same thing. We're trying to make something ideal. We don't care if anybody does join or doesn't join, but our business is to show the perfect ideal.
Prabhupāda: Jayādvaita?
Jayādvaita: I agree. This...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like our Back to Godhead magazine. For a while it was becoming very compromised. Actually it was becoming a little compromised. And just because we wanted... The editors were thinking that they should make it more popular, more acceptable. But our conclusion of all the GBC men was: "Popular or not, we are trying to present the ideal for the topmost men. There must be some ideal institution in the world." So we should keep it pure. And those who want the pure product, they will come and take. And others, at least they will know this is pure.
Jayādvaita: Everybody else is already a hodgepodge, so they'll allow anyone to speak because they don't have any scruples. But if we are very strict, if we don't allow anyone who's not strictly following...
Prabhupāda: Where is Brahmānanda?
Jayādvaita: Brahmānanda? Brahmānanda is resting.
Prabhupāda: So, I am on the deathbed. I may go away at any moment. Then... Now it is up to you to give protection to the sanctity of our institution. Who else is there from the GBC?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara, Jagadīśa.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not here right now, but they are here in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: He has gone to Delhi?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came back last night.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So think over. I am unable to do now. I can simply give you warning. It is very dangerous. Hm?
Jayādvaita: We have so many experiences that someone associates with these people and he loses his status.
Prabhupāda: They can warn us that "Don't speak of Gītā, " and why shall I allow them to speak? Eh?
Bhavānanda: That is such an insult, especially it's our facility. And as soon as you rent out to people, then you are compromised that they can tell you not to speak of Gītā at their Gītā conference in your hall. And you have to listen because they're giving you money.
Akṣayānanda: Because they're paying.
Bhavānanda: It's outrageous.
Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I mean I'm more concerned about Bombay, because there in Bombay I feel that... I don't think that there's a proper understanding on the part of some of the leaders there about the danger of this. I think that the leaders there are not very clear on this point. I'm a little worried about Bombay. I think that they're... They're going to compromise. There's a danger for compromisation there.
Jayādvaita: To be popular.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. To be popular and profitable, they're approaching it on a very businesslike basis. And also the other point is that they're afraid that... In Bombay they've made this hall, such a beautiful hall. So they don't want it to lie vacant or empty, and they just can't think of what can be done inside that hall every single day of the year. It's a fact that hall should be used every day of the year.
Bhavānanda: By us.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By us. But since they feel that there's not going to be any constant use from our side, they're thinking that it doesn't make sense to have built and spent so much money on such a good hall and not utilize it daily, which from the business point of view is a fact. But that means that you're going to have to invite all kinds of semi... It's not even Kṛṣṇa conscious. I wanted to say semi-Kṛṣṇa conscious, but they're going to have to invite different theater people, entertaining people.
Bhavānanda: So the Kṛṣṇa conscious solution is to utilize the hall every night for our own purposes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is unlimited. There's so many dramas, so many lectures, so many symposiums.
Prabhupāda: No, suppose you construct some house and rent out. Then they can do as they like. So similarly, if that hall is made, constructed for making some money, then the money will not come if we don't rent out to the cinema actors, actresses. It is just like... What is called? Village house. Hm? The hall is called? When one pays, marriage ceremony... For making some money you have made.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that why we made that hall, for making money?
Prabhupāda: Otherwise what you will do?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, originally you had intended that that hall would be used for Svarūpa Dāmodara's scientists and for our theater group and things like that.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but are you going to have every day?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I know that they won't. They cannot do that. I mean practically they won't.
Bhavānanda: It's possible, but...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it would have to take a tremendous endeavor on the part of our movement, and our movement is not... We're not geared to do that.
Prabhupāda: It is like tenant house. So whoever pays to your satisfaction, you give him for one day.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that all right with you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I don't think it is wrong.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Well, then that makes it very easy.
Prabhupāda: Because it will be a source of income.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it will be a big source of income. They'll pay a lot of money to use that hall. Not only that, once you let them use the hall, they'll book all the rooms in the hotel at the same time.
Prabhupāda: If you are going to do some business, earn some money, you'll have to allow.
Bhavānanda: But how that will affect the atmosphere and Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the temple? It's not that the theater...
Prabhupāda: Well, atmosphere... Suppose there is temple, and there is the park and other houses, and they are already polluting the atmosphere. You cannot stop it. Is it not?
Jayādvaita: All over our movement we have temples, and then next door there's some nonsense place.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot check the atmosphere all around. That is not possible. (pause) So when you described the number of books, what did they say? Hm?
Akṣayānanda: They said it was very nice. They said they were very impressed with that, and that you are doing the greatest work. They... Superficially they say all these things. They must.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They haven't even published one book.
Akṣayānanda: They must say these things.
Bhavānanda: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, another view is that we've constructed such attractive facilities here, and the purpose is to attract people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we let out this auditorium in Bombay and here in Vṛndāvana, so those people will come. They may be Māyāvādī... Actually everyone is Māyāvādī today. So it's a good opportunity for preaching if we're strong.
Prabhupāda: Preaching means to convert Māyāvādīs to Vaiṣṇava. Otherwise where is the need of preaching?
Bhavānanda: Preaching also means risk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No risk. We take money from them. So we get some money. That is our gain. So anything, do very carefully.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you said we should have a sign, "No Māyāvādī Meetings Allowed."
Prabhupāda: No. If this is allowed free.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Well, this wasn't free. They're paying for being here. They're paying to be here.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're paying to hold their program.
Prabhupāda: No gratis lecture allowed. If they pay for, they will talk all nonsense, (laughter) and we don't care for it. These are the considerations. That's all right. Turn me this side.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Prabhupāda, you should take some rest now, I think. You've been talking a long time. (end)