760725 - Conversation - London

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

760725L1-LONDON - July 25, 1976 - 58:14 Minutes

(at the house of Ksirodakasayi dasa)

(kīrtana in background)

Jayatīrtha: . . . was sitting previously, which was being worshiped, Sanātana was being worshiped at this place. So he sat down because he was thinking that he was good as standing up, same as standing up. So one Vaiṣṇava priest who was taking care of the place, he threw him out. So in the book they complained that the Vaiṣṇavas are considered to be very narrow-minded. (laughter) Now I can understand . . .

Prabhupāda: Here. He was kicked out.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, the boy threw him out. So they were complaining about this.

Prabhupāda: Just see. How bogus he was. No, when I go to met in . . . (indistinct) . . . that, in the beginning that Prabhavananda, the rascal said that, "RamaKṛṣṇa was formerly Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He began like that. Then I could understand, "What a rascal he is, and I have to waste my time." So I did not answer anything. I said: "Thank you very much for your meeting," and I went out. This rascal's first proposal was that RamaKṛṣṇa Thakur was formerly Caitanya. This is the beginning. He was so rascal.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: This is framework house. Hare Kṛṣṇa. If some of the svāmīs may have said, they say that, "Why you call us rascal and so many things?" So you say that, "We are not calling you; Kṛṣṇa says. So we are pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's it. We cannot help it. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). So you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore you must be mūḍha."

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Jayatīrtha: The best thing Kṛṣṇa has to say about them is that they are abuddhayaḥ. The best thing Kṛṣṇa says about them is they are unintelligent. Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ manyante mām abuddhayaḥ (BG 7.24).

Prabhupāda: Abuddhayaḥ, no intelligence. And similarly, those who are demigod-worshiper, they have been described naṣṭa-buddhayaḥ, "Lost of intelligence." These are statements in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness; we have to say. How we can avoid this? It may be displeasing to you, but we are not sorry. (laughter)

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: We are not sorry.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say the other party. But we have to say it.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: No, they all very pleased. They are all very pleased there. I say, when you can get off and Prabhupāda again comes, take prasādam, you can get off on that. They are waiting, but they will not take prasāda unless Prabhupāda's . . . they are about . . . over about two hundred people now. This temple here, all garden full.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they liked.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Yes, they liked very much.

Prabhupāda: But I spoke very strong thing against RamaKṛṣṇa.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Because you spoke the truth, facts.

Prabhupāda: And I challenged that, "Any question? Please come."

Indian man: (indistinct) . . . couldn't say anything.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Kapoor says that . . .

Indian man: O.B.L. Kapoor? Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana, yes. That, "Bhaktivedanta Swami speaks as strongly as Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī was speaking." You know that?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Oh, yes. I met so many times. I understand also.

Prabhupāda: He said that.

Jayatīrtha: Very nice compliment.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: He also said that, "Śrīla Prabhupāda is only one who has really taken the . . . his mission seriously."

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Of course, I don't say myself. That will not look good. But there is other . . . (indistinct conversation in background) They, all my Godbrothers, realize it. "But he is the only representative." Somebody, they frankly admit, and somebody do not.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: I met . . . some, they are starting coming here to see how the things are. (laughs) They all came. Still they are coming. I think . . . somebody said that Bon Mahārāja came.

Prabhupāda: He came here?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Pardon? Not here. I mean in London. Not here. I never invite anybody, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, no. London he came?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Yes, I heard. I don't know. Somebody was telling. And then so many svāmīs, so many, from Vṛndāvana they are coming. Because many, many guests come, Prabhupāda, in the week or during the day. They tell me that "Would you like to go? Some svāmī has come, some . . ." "Our svāmī is already here." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: They invite some invitation. They have had a big international religious conference in Millford a few weeks back, and all the professors, universities and big, big shark . . . I have got not got the English . . .

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhas.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: (laughs) Mūḍhas, yes. So I understand . . . some of the friends he said it was a big feast and all that, but there was nothing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They never talk about the Lord. They were simply arguing each other, "I think so." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: This is their business.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Big, big professor from the university, from Glasgow, so many professors. Big pamphlet came to me. They all send it . . . at least, they send it to this place here. I know from where they get the address or the name all that, and they send, many, many of these new societies.

Jayatīrtha: You're becoming famous.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: (laughs) No, no. Guru Mahārāja becomes.

Prabhupāda: Keep our standard. Then everyone will give assistance.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: We got many times, many very distinguished . . . one time that church vicar has come here to see how things are. Chinese people came, Englishmen. One of the lady, not very far from here, she came one morning, said: "My brother is in the hospital, and he is very sick. I know you are a pious people. Can you pray for him?" And "You never . . . you pray the Lord. You come here. Lord is here." And . . .

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not very far from here. Said: "We hear the noise in the morning, and we have got these feelings that these are very good thing." An English lady.

Jayatīrtha: Oh, this was an English person who came.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: English, yes. She is feeling in the heart.

Prabhupāda: To jo wo laundry ka business tha. So that laundry business that was there.)

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Poocha tha Prabhupad. (I enquired Prabhupāda.)

Prabhupāda: Wo makan me abhi koi hai? (Does anyone live in that house?)

Kshirodakasayi: Wo laundry ka dekhbal karta hai. (He looks after the laundry.)

Prabhupāda: Wo laundry ka businesss achha chal raha hai. (The laundry business is doing well.)

Kshirodaksayi: . . . bus bhagvan ki seva ho jaye to sab accha hai nahi to kuch accha nahi hai. Apna to yehi kaam hai ki. (If we are able to serve the Lord then everything is good, otherwise nothing is good. That is our work if we can do it.) By your grace, Kṛṣṇa is here, and we have no intention to come from there. I had intention that let the children go back home. And we fight, all this stuff. I say, "All right, we must start to fully educate him." Full education is that he become advanced in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: So I said: "We haven't got any education." Under the law of this country, if they have to remain here, they have to go up to sixteen years to the school. And if they're qualified, then they . . .

Prabhupāda: No, education is good, but the association is . . .

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: No, they don't have any asso . . . they don't go anywhere. They don't eat anywhere. Even so many invitation comes, either they go to the library or they go to the temple or this place. They have no friends, nothing else. No friends. They don't even take the water anywhere, even to my brother's house. They don't take anywhere.

Prabhupāda: Your brother is also here?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Yes, he's here now. And he was not very good terms last eight years with me. But when I established this temple, by your grace, Prabhupāda, he has also realized it now that this is good. And my difference with him was that, "You should give up this nonsense of drinking this, all these things." That was only . . . nothing else, about money or anything. I say, "I cannot eat at your place unless you give up these things." I go there, don't eat anything.

Prabhupāda: Still, he drinks.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Still he drinks. That is the fact. He doesn't eat meat, of course, but he says . . . He has got business, good business, plenty of money. I am poor materially, but

Prabhupāda, my father, spiritual father, is so rich that I am getting money every day. Materially, I am poor, but I am so richer, you are giving so treasure . . . you see in our library there, we have so many nice library of each and every of your book downstairs, and more we read, we say, well plenty money is coming. (break) . . . from the temple. Life Member comes there. We sell the Gujarati magazine. I brought all magazines from Gujarati. Now second issue has not come. The same problem. I don't . . .

Prabhupāda: This is . . . have printed.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: But whatever I brought, it went within two, three weeks.

Prabhupāda: So Yaśomatīnandana?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Ha uske letter aya hai ki: (Yes, his letter has come that:) "The next issue is in the press, and I'll soon send." And Gopāla dāsa I also written. Because there are many Gujaratis here, and they are becoming Life Members. They have been very much in the temple. Anybody comes here, we send out to the Manor. I say: "Here Kṛṣṇa is . . . here we are. Here we have got everything by Kṛṣṇa's grace, and all the help should go to this center."

Prabhupāda: You are preparing something of bitter melon?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Bitter? You mean the . . .

Prabhupāda: Karelās, yes.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Brinjal also. Brinjal. Brinjal I have got. To Prabhupada wo Bhagavad-gītā ka ye hai Gopal das ne kaha ki translation karo to 2 to 4 chapter humne kiya hai . . . karte raho. waise accha hai 3 to 4 aadmi ko . . . aisa kiya hai to jo bhi hain devotee hain, professional hain ya educated hain. (So Prabhupada, the Bhagavad-gītā Gopal dasa told me to translate, so I translated 2 to 4 chapters . . . keep doing . . . but it is nice 3 to 4 people . . . we have done like this. So whatever it is they are devotees, they are professionals or they are educated.) (break)

Prabhupāda: Theek hai sab Vaikunth chale jayenge. (All right, everyone will go to the Vaikuntha planets.)

Ksirodaksayi: Hindi me Bhagavad-gītā chapne chahiye bahut jaldi. (The Bhagavad-gītā should be printed in Hindi as soon as possible.)

Harikeśa: How much is left?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: No, no, we just starting it. Prabhupāda approved that, starting, starting with two chapters three times.

Prabhupāda: No, you can do one thing. Part by part, you publish in the Bhāgavata-darśana so that he can . . . everyone can see how it is. Then it will be good.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Oh, yes. No, I showed to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu when he came here. He also came here when he came to London. He came one day here, so I showed all these and I read little bit.

Prabhupāda: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa himself is not very expert.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: No. So he said that, "Śrīla Prabhupāda is coming now," so if you get a chance . . .

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say that whatever you have written, let it be published in the . . .

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Yes, I understand

Prabhupāda: . . . so that everyone can see. Then we can understand.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: I see. So I will send to India chapter by chapter, and they can publish . . .

Prabhupāda: With a letter that, "Prabhupāda says like this, that you print in the Hindi edition of Bhāgavata-darśana so that everyone will see, and they will judge how it is done nicely."

Harikeśa: Should I make this?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: I'll send the first chapter complete.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Duplicate it and keep one copy with me here and one copy send off, and they can publish in the Back to Godhead here.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is that in India, in different parts of India different standard. Somebody says: "This standard is good", somebody says: "This standard is good."

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Well, we are not worried about the criticism.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: We are not worried about the criticism, anybody say. What you say, we'll take that one line, the guideline.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not authority in Hindi, but this Hindi, different parts of India, a different standard.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Yes, that's true. That is why I had not depend on myself. It going there from the four people different, one after another, and they are qualified Sanskrit and Hindi scholars.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let it be published.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Complete corrections also. It's not going by . . .

Prabhupāda: So you can show me some samples which you have completed. Yes, you can show me some.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: (Indian man enters and speaks with Kṣīrodakaśāyī) Śrīla Prabhupāda, devotees are asking can you take prasāda and go to Manor? There's some press coming, but without you they're . . . is it all right?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. All right. I will take some time.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Is it all right?

Prabhupāda: I ordered . . .

Harikeśa: Others, they are also waiting. The Indians, they are . . .

Prabhupāda: So let them all take. You can also go down. (break) (Prabhupāda moves outside)

Hari-śauri: If you like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Harikeśa: Now it's recording. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . word by word.

Kīrtimā: And translate into English.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to do it. Give him the book. Simply book. Why you are taking this? Here? Yes.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Ye Bhagavad-gītā ka tervan adhyay hai prakriti aur anand bhogta ka chetna. (This is the 13th chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, "Nature, the Enjoyer and Consciousness".) Uske pehle ye do slok hain. (There are two verses before that.)

arjuna uvāca

prakṛtiṁ puruṣaṁ caiva

kṣetraṁ kṣetra-jñam eva ca

etad veditum icchāmi

jñānaṁ jñeyaṁ ca keśava

śrī-bhagavān uvāca

idaṁ śarīraṁ kaunteya

kṣetram ity abhidhīyate

etad yo vetti taṁ prāhuḥ

kṣetra-jña iti tad-vidaḥ

Indian man (2): Should I read the translation in Hindi?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that . . .

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Arjuna said: O my dear Kṛṣṇa, I wish to know about prakṛti [nature], puruṣa [the enjoyer], and the field and the knower of the field, and of knowledge and the object of knowledge. The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: This body, O son of Kuntī, is called the field, and one who knows this body is called the knower of the field.

Prabhupāda: Thoda explain karo. (Explain a little more.)

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Arjun jo hai vo bhagavan sri Kṛṣṇa se jijnasa kar rahe hain prakriti ke vishay mein. Hum log sab jante hain ke prakriti kya hai. aap inse poochiye koi kehta hai ki supreme nature hai magar vo ye nahi janta ki supreme nature kiska nature hai. Aap jante hain ki apka prakriti mai prakriti se alag hai. Jahan prakriti hai waha kehte hain supreme nature wo sabse badi cheez hai. To humlog ko poochna chahiye kiska nature, kiski prakriti. Bhagavad-gītā me phir kehte hain "mayadhyaksena prakritih suyate sa-caracaram" mere nirdeshan me ye prakriti jo hai karya kar rahi hai. To jaha prakriti hai vahan purush bhi hai.

(Arjuna is enquiring from Kṛṣṇa about nature. We all know what is material. You ask them, some say it is supreme nature but they don’t know whom this supreme nature belongs to. You know that . . . nature is different from your nature. Where there is nature, it is said that supreme nature is the biggest asset. So we must ask whose nature.)

Bhagavan Sri Kṛṣṇa jo hai vo param purush. Is tarah se jo apne sharir ko janta hai sharir ko shetra kaha gaya hai aur sharir ke andar jo atma hai use kshetragnya mana gaya hai. To Arjun jo hai vo bhagavan se jijnasa kar rahe hain ki prakriti kise kehte hain, purush kaun hai ye kshetra kya cheez hai aur kshetragnya kyunki hamare sri Kṛṣṇa bhavanamrit andolan ka moolbhoot siddhant ye hai ki humlog ye sharir nahi hain. Aap coat kameez pehne hue hain hum apse baat kar rahe hain apke kameez ya coat ko hum nahi dekhte usi tarah humlog ka ye jo sri Kṛṣṇa bhavanamrit ka andolan hai humlog ye kehte hain ki sab jeev, manushya hi nahi sab jeev bhagavan ke ansh hain kyunki unme atma hai. Bhagavan ka ek naam paramatma kaha jata hai, param atma vo sab ke atma hain aur humlog unke chote se ansh hain. Is tarah se hum sab chahe vo american ho ya african ho chahe bhartiya ho chahe german ho koi bhi ho usko hum ye prachar karte hain ki tum ye sharir nahi ho bhagavan ke ansh ho bhagavan ke das ho bhagvan ke sevak ho aur tumhara ye kartavya hai ki tum bhagavan ki seva karo.

(In Bhagavad-gītā it is said "Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥsūyate sa-carācaram", this nature is working under my direction, so where there is nature there is enjoyer also. Bhagavan Sri Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer. In this way one who knows his body, the body is called a field and the soul, which is inside the body is called the knower of the field. So Arjuna is enquiring from Sri Kṛṣṇa that, "What is nature? Who is enjoyer? What is this field and knower of the field?" Because the basic philosophy of our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement is, "We are not this body". You are wearing this coat-shirt and I am talking to you but I am not looking at your dress. Just like that, this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement that we have—that all entities, not only humans. All living entities are part and parcel of the Lord because everyone has a soul. One of the names of God is Paramātmā param ātmā—He is seated in everyone’s heart as Paramātmā and we are his tiny parts. In this way all of us—whether he is American, African, Indian, German—whoever it is, we preach to them that, "You are not this body, you are part of God, his servant, his follower and it is your duty that you serve God.")

Haat jo hai wo apke sharir ka ang hai, yadi haat khush hona chahta hai to jab vo bhojan utha ke moo me dalega aur pet me jab bhojan pahunchega to haat apne-aap khush ho jayega kyunki haat jo hai wo sharir ka hissa hai. To humlog jo hain bhagavan ka hissa hain yadi hum bhagavan ka seva karenge apne-aap hum khush ho jayenge nahi to haat bine pet me bhojan diye khush hona chahta hoon khush nahi ho payega chahe gulab-jamoon rakha ho haat use choota rahe magar haat jab tak moo me nahi dalega tab tak wo khush nahi hoga. Is tarah humlog jo jeev-matr hain jab tak bhagavan ke seva nahi karenge khush nahi ho sakte. Ye machli hai usko aap pani se nikal dijiye.

(This hand is part of your body and if your hand wants to be happy. Then when he picks up food and puts it in his mouth, and when the food reaches the stomach, then the hand becomes happy automatically because the hand is part of the body. Similarly we are part of God, and if we serve Him then automatically we become happy. Without offering food to the stomach, the hand will not be happy. If sweet meat balls are kept in front of you, unless you take if and put it into your mouth, the hand will not be happy—we will not be happy. Similarly, we who are living entities — unless we offer service to the Lord, we will not be happy. This fish, if you remove it from the water, it will not be happy.)

Aur chahe bahut bade bhavan me rakh dijiye, usko TV, sofa-set sab de dijiye, machli mar jayegi pani se bahar nikalte hi. Wohi dasha hamari hai, humlog tadap rahe hain kyunki bhagavan ko bhool gaye hain. To bhagavan ko yaad karne ke liye phir se vapas janm me chale jayenge to khush ho jayenge. (Whether you keep it in a big mansion, give it a TV, give a sofa — give everything — the fish will die as soon as you take it out of water. Similarly, in our condition we are restless because we have forgotten God. So to remember God, we should again take birth — then we will be happy.)

Jab arjun ne in sab vishayon ke bare me Sri Kṛṣṇa se poocha, to bhagavan ne kaha ki is sharir ko hum kshetra kehte hain aur jo is sharir ko janta hai use kshetrgna ya knower of the field kaha jata hai. Ye sharir jo hai, ye badh atma jo humlog hain unke liye atma kriya kshetra hai. Atma jaroor hai hum me par atma sharir ke madhyam se kaam karti hai. Atma jab sharir se chali jati hai to hai to hai wohi sharir haat na dekh sakta hai, na aap naak se soongh sakte hain, usi sharir ko jala diya jata hai. Aap jinda sharir ko jalaiye koi soch bhi nahi sakta, lekin atma chali jati hai. To atma jab tak thi uske madhyam se hum dekh rahe hain, bol rahe hain, sun rahe hain.

(And then Arjuna enquired about all this from Sri Kṛṣṇa, then God said that we call this body the field. The one who knows this body is called the knower of the field. We have this body, we are conditioned souls. For them the soul is the field of action. We definitely have a soul, but it is working through the medium of this body. When the soul leaves the body then with the same body the hand cannot be seen, the eyes cannot see, the nose cannot smell and we burn the same body. Nobody can think of burning a live body, but when the soul leaves the body — unless the soul was there in the body we could see, speak or hear.)

Sri Kṛṣṇa samjha rahe hain ki ye sharir jo hai wo karya kshetra hai, atma to mukhya cheez hai, atma sharir ke madhyam se karya karti hai. Jo humlog ye badh jeev hain . . . (Sri Kṛṣṇa is explaining this body is a field of action, the soul is an important fact — the soul does the work through the body. We are conditioned souls . . .)

Prabhupāda: Jaise ye chashma hai ye chashma dekhta nahi aankh dekhta hai chashma ka through se. Agar koi kehta hai ki chashma dekhta hai to vo murkh hai. chashma nahi dekhta hai. Usi prakar atma jo hai use khestrgna kaha jata hai. Jo kshetragna asal cheez hai, yeh kshetra, sharir asal cheez nahi hai, ye madhyam hai. jaise udharan diya gaya to chashma se dekhte hain, chashma nahi dekhta hai, usko samajhna chahiye. (Like these specks are there but the specks do not see, the eyes see through the specks. If someone says that the specks see, then he is a fool. The specks do not see. Similarly, the soul is called the knower of the field — this is the real fact but the body is not real. It is a medium, the example is given that the specks do not see, the eyes see through specks — we must understand this.)

Ksirodaksayi: To is tarah se hum jo baddh jeev jo hai maya ke chakkar me pade hain aur humlog bhautik prakriti ke swami banane ki koshish kar rahe hain. Bhagvan koi nahi hai, hum hain, hum khush ho jaye. Hum apni shakti ke anusar is prakriti pe kabja karne ki koshish karte hain, adhikar jamane ki koshish karte hain chahe wo aadmi bada ho, chota ho, janwar ho sab yahi sochte hain ki main iska malik hoon. (So like this, we who are conditioned souls, we are under the spell of maya. We are trying to lord it over nature, "There is no God, we are God, we must be happy. According to our strength, we try to capture nature, establish our authority over nature." Whether he is a big or small man or animal — everyone thinks that I am the owner of this nature.)

Chota sa chuha hai apne samarth ke anusar chura layega, aadmi bada hai wo badi chori karta hai ye sab chori kar rahe hain bhagvan ka bina bhagvan ko malik samjhe. Isopanishad me ek sloka aata hai . . . (Even a small rat, according to its strength, steals something from somewhere—a big man steals big things. Everyone is stealing from God without accepting God as the owner. In the Sri Isopanisad, there is a verse . . .)

Prabhupāda: Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam.

Ksirodaksayi: Ye bhagavan jo hai unka hi sab kuch hai. To jitna apko jaroorat hai aap le lijiye aur baki doosro ke upayog ke liye chod de. Srila Prabhupad udharan dete hain ki ek bag chawal ka ya gehoon ka raaste me pada ho ek chidiya ayegi do dane kha legi aur chali jayegi. Aadmi ayega pehle pet bhar khayega phir jhola uthakar apne ghar me rakh lega. To isi ke karan pure sansar me log jo kasht paa rahe hain khane ki kami hai, anaz ki kami hai, is liye ki anaz hai par usko log chura rahe hain. Ye hamari sampatti hai bina bhagvan ko jane. To hamara jo sharir hai car ka kriya kshetra hai aur sharir kya hai wo indriyon se bana hua hai. (This God everything belongs to Him. So how much you want you take and leave the rest for the benefit of others. Srila Prabhupāda gives an example that a bag of rice or wheat is lying on the street. One bird comes and eats a few grains and flies away but a man comes and first fills his belly and then carries the bag of wheat home. So as a result people are suffering in this world, shortage of food grains, food. Not because food is not there but people are stealing thinking this belongs to me wihtout knowing god. So our body is action field of car and what is body, it is made up of senses.)

Humlog ki panch gyanendriya hoti hai aur paanch karmendiya hoti hai aur ek man aur ahankar. Isliye humlog bhagvan ki bhakti kyunki humlog maya me hain, apne sharir se shoru kar sakte hain. Abhi hum log apna indriya bhog, kewal apne sukh ke liye karya karna chahte hain. shari wohi hai, indriya wohi, jaise aankh, aap aankh se cinema dekh sakte hain aur aap aankh se bhagvan ki murti Sri Radha-Gokulanada yahan par hain unke darshan kar sakte hain. (We have 5 knowledge-acquiring senses and 5 working senses and one mind and ego. That is why we cannot do devotion to the Lord because we are in illusion. We can start devotion with our body. Now we want to work only for sense gratification, only for our pleasure. The body is the same, the senses are the same. Like our eyes, we can watch movies with our eyes or see the Deities of Sri Radha-Gokulananda which are here, have His darshan.)

Indriya wohi hain yadi aap unko bhagavan ke darshan me lagate hain to bhakti ho jati hai nahi to vishay bhog hai. Usme apko kewal . . . sabhi log aajkal bajaye aatma ko samajhne ke apne sharir ko hi khud mante hain. Agar poochiye aap kaun hain, hum bhartiya hain, pacchees saal ke hain, tees saal ke hain, ye sharir, main kaun hoon. aap jante hain apka sharir chota sa tha, main chota tha ab main bada ho gay, main boodha ho jaoonga, to main wohi hoon, vo chota sharir kahan chala gaya, wo bade sharir me ho gaya, isi tarah se jab aap boodhe ho jate hain to atma wohi rehti hai, atma sharir chod kar ke doosre sharir me chali jati hai. (The senses are the same but if you engage them in the service of the Lord then it becomes devotion otherwise it becomes sense gratification. In it you will . . . everyone nowadays, instead of understanding the soul, think that I am this body. If you ask them, they say I am indian, 25 to 30 years old. Who is there in this body? You know that this body was small—I was young, now I have grown up, now I will become old. So I am the same, where is the small boy, it has grown into a big boy. Similarly when you grow old the soul remains the same. The soul leaves the body and enters another body.

Apka jab kameez purana ho jata hai to aap usko chod kar ke nayi kameez le lete hain. Isi tarah atma ka kabhi naash nahi hota. To wo vyakti jo apne ko sharir na mane par atma mane use kshetragnya kehte he knower of the field. Ye ab koi bahut mushkil nahi hai atma me aur sharir me antar samajhna. Srila Prabhupad ne wohi udharan diya jo maine kuch der pehle kaha, humlog bacche the boodha ho gaya, sharir badal raha hai 24 ghante. Vigyan ke anusar bhi apke sharir me kriyayen-pratikriyayen ho rahin hain, 24 ghante apka sharir badal raha hai, har shan, har pratipal magar atma apki wohi hai. sharir me baithi hui atma jo ki ek vyakti hai wo ek hai, deh badal raha hai. (When your shirt becomes old then you give it up and buy a new shirt. Similarly the soul is never destroyed. So that person who does not think that he is this body but is spirit soul, is called knower of the field. So now it is not difficult to understand the difference between body and soul. Srila Prabhupāda has given the same example which i mentioned before. We were children, then became old. The body is continuously undergoing changes every 24 hours. According to science also, action—reactions are going on in your body, in 24 hours your body is changing, every minute, every second but sould is the same, the soul inside the body which is our identity, body is changing.

Yehi antar hai jo deh ke karya ko janta hai aur jo vastvik roop se atma ka Swaroop pehchanta hai usko kshetragya kehte hain. Iccha se hum baddh jeev samajh sakte hain ki hum is sharir se alag hain. Ek chota sa udharan aur de sakte hain; aap kehte hain mera kaan, mera nak, mera aankh, aap ye bahi kehte mai aankh, mai kaan, iska matlab ki apka kaan apse alag hai. To iska matlab hua ki apka sharir atma se alag hai. Bhagavad-gītā ke doosre adhyay ka tehravan slok "dehino asmin yatha dehi kaumaram yauvanam zara, tatha dehantram prapatir dhiras tatra na muhyati" jis tarah se dehi is deh me baitha hua hai. Bacche se javaan hota hai phir boodha isi tarah se mrtyu ke samay atma ek sharir ko chod ke doosre sharir me chali jati hai. (This is the difference of one who knows the work of the body and one who actually recognises the existence of the soul, he is known as knower of the field. By our desire, we conditioned souls can understand that we are different from the body. One more example we can give; you say my ear, my nose, my eyes. You don't say I eyes, I nose, I hand. This means that your eyes are different from you. So this means that your body is sepearte from the soul. In the 13 verse of the 2 chapter of Bhagavad-gītā "dehino asmin yatha dehi kaumaram yauvanam zara, tatha dehantram prapatir dhiras tatra na muhyati". Like how the resident is sitting inside the body, from child to youth to old man, the soul leaves the body and enters into another body.)

To jo dhir log hain, gyani log hain, woh ye soch kar dukh nahi karte, log rote hain 'are wo mar gaya'. Kaun mar gaya jisko aap apna samjhte the wo to leta hua hai aur cheez chali gayi uska naash nahi hota hai. Bhagavad-gītā me adhyay do me, jo ki Gītā ka sar hai usme ye samajhaya gaya hai. Is prakar se jab vyakti ye janta hai uska sharir haemsha badal raha hai wo ye samajhta hai wo kshetragy hai. Kabhi-kabhi humlog samajhte hain ke hum bahut kush hain, main pagal hoon, main aurat hoon, mai kutta hoon, billi hoon to ye main jo hai wo kshetragya hai, kutta billi aurat ye sab sharir aur mai jo atma, jo bhagavan ka ansh hai usko humlog kshetragya kehte hain. (So those who are 'dhira', educated, they are not sad when they think about this. People cry, "Oh, that person died." Who died? The one who you considered your own is lying here and the one that left the body is not perishable. In Bhagavad-gītā in chapter 2, which is the essence of the Gītā, this has been explained. In this way when a peprson knows that his body is ever—changing, he is called a knower of the field. Sometimes we feel that we are very happy, I'm mad, I'm woman, I'm dog, I'm cat—so I'm only knower of the field. The dog, cat—others are all bodies and I'm the soul, part and parcel of God, is the knower of the field.)

Prabhupāda:

kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi

sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata

kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānaṁ

yat taj jñānaṁ mataṁ mama

(BG 13.3)

Kṛṣṇa has spoken about the kṣetrajña. Kṣetrajña means the knower of the body, as He has already explained that, "I know that this is my finger." I never say: "I finger." So this body is kṣetrajña, the field of activities, and the soul is the proprietor or worker within the body. That is called kṣetrajña. This is already explained. He tried to explain . . . because there are many ladies, so he tried to explain in Hindi. So here in the next verse Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "I am also kṣetrajña. I am also one of the knower of the body." So what is the difference between the one kṣetrajña already explained, the soul, and this kṣetrajña, Kṛṣṇa? What is the difference between the two? That is explained here. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am also kṣetrajña." Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "But the distinction is that the individual soul is situated in that particular body, but I am situated in every body, all-pervading." Sometimes they commit mistake that ātmā and Paramātmā, they are the same, but that is not the fact. Here Kṛṣṇa explains very distinctly that, "I am also ātmā, but I am Paramātmā." That is the distinction between God and us.

When Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Paraṁ brahma. They are anxious to realize Brahman, that I . . . ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi does not mean that, "I am Paraṁ Brahman." I am individual part and parcel of Brahman. Similarly, ātmā, Paramātmā; īśvara, Parameśvara. We should understand this distinction between ātmā, Paramātmā; Brahman, Para-brahman; īśvara, Parameśvara. So in the Vedic literature it is said, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (BS 5.1). Īśvara. Īśvara means controller. Every one of us, we are controller, either I control over my family or in my office or in my country. In this way everyone is a controller. I may be a controller. Not may be; in my limited jurisdiction I am also controller. You are also controller. So I may be a little greater controller, you may be smaller controller and somebody may be greater than me. So in this way, if you study controllers, different types of controller, you'll find there is junior and senior. The same person is senior controller in the family, but in the office he's the junior controller. The same person is junior and senior at the same time. Somewhere he is junior, somewhere he is senior. In this way, if you study all different types of controller, you'll see there is duality of controls. But when you approach somebody that He's simply controller—He's not by controlled by others—that is Kṛṣṇa. This is analytical study of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So they have studied, all these Vedic scholars, especially Lord Brahmā. This is the statement of Lord Brahmā. Not only Lord Brahmā—Vyāsadeva, Nārada and recently big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, even Śaṅkarācārya, and latest, five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya—everyone has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme controller. And in the dictionary you'll find what is religion. Religion means to accept a supreme controller. That is religion. So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means the controlling laws given by God. That is called dharma. So real dharma . . . from all Vedic scriptures, from the version of all authorities, it is confirmed that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (BS 5.1): "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Every religion has conception of God, but no religious system in this world has got any clear conception of God. But in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not actually a so-called religious movement, but it is an educational movement to give information to the human society about God that, "Here is God." You are searching after God, and somebody, in disappointment, saying that, "God is dead." God is neither dead, nor it is fictitious, but it is factual, and here is this God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). This is the verdict of the Vedic literature. There are may be many other gods. They are expansion of the original Personality of Godhead. If anyone is interested to study the science of God, you'll find it in the Vedic literature, how Kṛṣṇa expands by His plenary portion in different names of God. It is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (BS 5.33). That Absolute Truth is advaita, without any duality; acyuta, infallible. Advaita, acyuta, anādi. Everything has got its beginning, anything you . . . that is our material conception, because we have got the experience—anything we take, it has got a beginning. But Kṛṣṇa, He is described, advaita, acyuta, anādi: "He has no beginning." And in another place it is also said:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(BS 5.1)

Kāraṇam is the beginning. So just like my father is the cause of my personality; father, his father is the cause of his personality; in this way you try to find out the cause of the cause. You'll find Kṛṣṇa as the cause of all causes. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. Everything must be caused by something. Cause and effect. So the śāstra gives the verdict that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(BS 5.1)

So this institution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have started. Now we have opened this center. I am very glad that you are coming here, but study the science of Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain blind. The science of Kṛṣṇa means science of God. The human life is meant for understanding the science of God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. "This human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth—Brahman." That Brahman, Para-brahman, is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, when Arjuna studied Bhagavad-gītā, his conclusion was . . . he addressed immediately, Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Bhavān: "Yourself . . ." So don't waste your time even by a minute. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only business. Other business, they are subsidiary. They are not very important business. Why Kṛṣṇa understanding is important business? Because it will give you liberation from this material conditional life. We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like. But that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).

So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. Just like their so-called scientific way they are trying to go to the moon planet or Mars planet. Why they are trying to go? Because they are controlled. They have got their flying machine. They can to go any planet, but they cannot, because they are being controlled. So we should come to our senses that we cannot bring the laws of material nature under our control. We are already under the control of the laws of material nature, and that is our conditional life. Actually, we require freedom from conditional life, but that freedom can be achieved when we surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

If you actually want to be . . . not to be controlled by the laws of material nature, that you can do. That is possible. And that is possible simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa.

So we are presenting this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a manufactured thing. We are quoting from Bhagavad-gītā the same thing. We are not presenting something manufactured. There is no need, because things in perfection is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no need of manufacturing by fools and rascals. There is no need. Everything is there in perfection. Simply we have to accept it and apply it in practical life. Then our life will be successful. Simply we have to understand it. Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is . . . then jānāti tattvataḥ, anyone who is able to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then what is the result? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9): "Such person, after giving up this body, he does not accept another material body." At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). This is our conditional life, but we are kept in such dense darkness of knowledge that we are thinking that, "We are free. We can do whatever we like." This is very dangerous civilization—no knowledge of the spiritual life, no knowledge how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, no knowledge what is the future, no knowledge what is the goal of life. Simply like cats and dogs you dance, eat, drink, be merry and die, that's all. This is not good life. You must be very serious, especially those who are Indians. They should take it very seriously. Because this Kṛṣṇa culture, Bhagavad-gītā, was spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra in India, and if we Indians, we do not take full advantage of this great transcendental knowledge, then you are committing suicide.

So my request is, all the Indians who are here in this foreign country, keep your own original culture. Don't forget. Don't be bewildered. Be in your position. Try to under . . . it is very easy. Bhagavad-gītā is not at all difficult to understand, and we have tried to explain as easy as possible, not that we have deviated from the original verse, just like others do it. We do not do that; there is no need. That is another blunder. We keep Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and we still try to explain it. So I am very glad that you are all coming regularly, but take it. At least one day, this Sunday, you devote, seriously studying Bhagavad-gītā, and discuss amongst you whenever there is any doubt. There cannot be any doubt. The Bhagavad-gītā verses are so plainly explained, and . . . just like here is one verse we are trying to read, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "My dear Arjuna . . ." Arjuna is addressed as Bhārata. Because he belongs to the dynasty of Bharata, sometimes he's addressed as Bhārata. So, very easy that, "I am also one of the souls. There are two souls. One, you are, and another, I am. So what is the difference between you and Me? That you know simply everything—not everything, but to some extent—about your body, but I know everything of everyone's body." That is the difference. I know the pleasure and pains of my body, you know the pleasure and pains of your body, but Kṛṣṇa knows the pleasure and pains of your body and pleasure and pains of my body. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is situated . . . Kṛṣṇa is not stereotyped in one place. Kṛṣṇa, He is in Goloka Vṛndāvana: goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (BS 5.37). That is Kṛṣṇa. I am sitting here; you are sitting here. I am not in my apartment, but Kṛṣṇa, although He is sitting in this temple, He is present everywhere: aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (BS 5.35).

In this way we have to study Kṛṣṇa very scientifically, and the books are there, we have tried to explain as far as possible. Take advantage of this institution. Don't waste a moment of your life. Take it very seriously. Āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita). This seriousness . . . especially those who are educated, they should take serious consideration of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Try to understand each and every verse of Bhagavad-gītā, especially, and if possible Bhāgavatam. There are so many books. We have got program to publish at least eighty-four books like this, four hundred pages each. So we have already published fifty-four books. So if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa through science and philosophy, read these books. Otherwise—very easy method—come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. There is no difficulty.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (end)