770113 - Conversation - Allahabad

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

770113R1-ALLAHABAD - January 13, 1977 - 59:28 Minutes

(conversation and instruction on new movie)

Prabhupāda: These are weapons. That was the only endeavor, how legally he could occupy the bricks and stones of Gauḍīya Math. That's all. He had no other ambition. How to push on Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, how to push on Guru Mahārāja's . . . he had no such. It was simply show. But real purpose was how to occupy, how to take the whole property. Business.

Rāmeśvara: And none of the other Godbrothers had strong preaching spirits.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They also, when they saw that, "This man is legally taking everything. Gauḍīya sannyāsīs, we cannot go home. We must have some shelter." No spirit of pushing on.

Rāmeśvara: Even by your example they have not learned anything.

Prabhupāda: No, my . . . of course, I did not attempt in the beginning. I started my activities when I was seventy years old. So they thought, "This man is gṛhastha. He is embarrassed with family life. What he'll do?" (laughs) That was their impression. But I never neglected. Guru Mahārāja told me. I was simply thinking, "How to do it? How to do it?" I thought, "Let me become a rich businessman. The money will be required." That was my thought. But Guru Mahārāja was asking me, "You give up. I'll give you money." That I could not understand. I was planning. My plan was not wrong, but I was thinking, "The money required, so let me earn some money. Then I shall begin." And Guru Mahārāja said, "You give up this money-earning endeavor. You come completely. I'll give you money." I can understand now. But my desire was there. Therefore he guided me. So I was . . . (train sound) In 1936 . . . or '35 in Bombay, after installation of Deity, so I was gṛhastha—I helped them to collect some money. All my Godbrothers applauded and recommended to Guru Mahārāja that, "Abhay Babu is so influential. Why he lives outside the temple? He can become the temple commander and manage this Bombay temple. Why he is living outside?" Mean "Guru Mahārāja may ask him." So I was . . . from this Allahabad I was going to Bombay. I had one small office there. So after hearing, he said: "It is better that he is living little away from your matha. And when time will rise, he'll do everything. He hasn't got to be advised." I could not understand (laughs) why he said like that. That means he was so kind that he expected that I shall do something. That was my asset—his blessing. And I was thinking that "His, this mission must be done very nicely." Although I was not capable to do anything, I was thinking like that. So desire was there, and maybe blessing was there. Yes. There was no question of qualification.

Rāmeśvara: But still, after ten years, the Gauḍīya Math still has not learned.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? They cannot. They . . . those who are intelligent, they are making something, Śrīdhara Mahārāja and others. But this man was envious, this Tīrtha Mahārāja, because . . . he advertised that he is the only favorite student of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. (laughs) But spiritually he was empty. Materially he was capable, how to manage things. But spiritually he was zero. That Prabhupāda also knew, and everyone knows. He had no spiritual understanding. Materially he helped Guru Mahārāja how to organize. Therefore he liked him, that, "This man is expert manager."

Rāmeśvara: We have devotees like that. We also have devotees who spiritually have trouble coming to the programs and even chanting, but still, they like to give some service, so we engage them anyway.

Prabhupāda: That is also qualification. That is also qualification. Some way or other, if there is some service, it goes to the credit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya (BG 2.40). The foolish person may not know that, "I am imperceptibly advancing even during my, this material life," but Kṛṣṇa takes. Just like Pūtanā. She gave service by allowing her breast to be sucked by Kṛṣṇa. Although her intention was to kill, but Kṛṣṇa took it as mother, "She has given Me service." This is Kṛṣṇa. "This rascal does not know that nobody can kill Me, but on some plea or other, she has given her breast open to be sucked by Me, and I have done it. Therefore she is My mother. She must get the promotion like Mother Yaśodā." This is Kṛṣṇa. He is very anxious to deliver us. So any little service done, He accepts, "All right, come on. You are accepted." This is Kṛṣṇa. Little service: "Let him do something." So kind. He comes for . . . (indistinct) . . . he speaks, "Rascal, you do this. Surrender to Me and do something. You'll be relieved from this janma-mṛtyu vyādhi." "No." Hog, dogs, they are—what is called—obstinate. The hog, living in dirty place, eating stool, and if you try to deliver from this, he'll not, "No. No. I am living here happily. Why you are disturbing me?" This is the . . . "Why you are trying to wash my brain? This is very good life." This is our . . .

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes we get gṛhasthas to join us, but they are not strong enough to do saṅkīrtana. So then we can encourage them to do some business, like a normal gṛhastha in the world, to give some money to . . .

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa . . . svakarmaṇā, "All right, be engaged in your occupational duty."

Rāmeśvara: Just give something. Actually, if some gṛhasthas would do some business, it would take a little pressure off the brahmacārīs, and they can pass out more books. Now, because the overhead is high in certain temples like New York, very high overhead, LA, very high, so we are collecting so much money. We could be giving out more books if we had extra money from the gṛhasthas' business.

Prabhupāda: They are willing to work?

Rāmeśvara: I think if we encourage them . . .

Prabhupāda: Then why not?

Rāmeśvara: . . . we can start some businesses. Just like Spiritual Sky was started. It is giving every month to Los Angeles five thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: So you can do business. Why don't you start this toothpaste? It is very effective. I am using personally. Toothpaste is a very common thing. If you introduce, it is used by cent percent persons. Simply they should like it.

Rāmeśvara: The taste is all right?

Prabhupāda: Yes, taste can be . . .

Rāmeśvara: Adjusted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: In America everything is based on the tongue.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. Taste can be very nice, sweetened. There is salt, and you can add honey also. Naturally salty and sweet, plus some ingredients like peppermint, wintergreen, camphor, it will make tasty. These ingredients are very nice. You can . . . some ordinary medicament. That skin disease ointment, some cough mixture. I have got experience if you want to introduce this kind of business, tidbit. The gṛhasthas can do the business.

Rāmeśvara: Gṛhasthas. I also want to start this record . . .

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect everyone to be brahminical qualification. We are neither brāhmin nor . . . we do not belong to any sect, but Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, we can do anything. That, because we are doing some business, we are not vaiśyas. Just like Nanda Mahārāja was agriculturist. So that does not mean he was gṛhastha-vaiśya. But professionally, externally, he looked like.

Rāmeśvara: I see that in Los Angeles. Not everyone can follow every program. So I'm always telling them, to encourage them, that even something is better than nothing. Blind uncle is better than no uncle. So do whatever you can.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they should be encouraged. They must give some service to the institution, by earning money, that is hard-earned money. (man chanting on loudspeaker in background) So why our men are not chanting? This is . . .

Rāmeśvara: They're just starting.

Prabhupāda: He's also stressing on chanting, this man, Punjabi. He is stressing that, "Mind is restless. Chant. The mind will be controlled."

Rāmeśvara: Actually, by reading your books millions of Americans are chanting.

Prabhupāda: Chanting?

Rāmeśvara: Just by reading your books it is chanting.

Prabhupāda: No . . .

Rāmeśvara: Within the mind they are hearing the message of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: There are some cartoons. One old lady is requesting her husband, "Chant! Chant! Chant!" and the husband is saying, "Can't! Can't! Can't!" You did not see that?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And another businessman, he is coming from business and sitting, "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" (chuckles) These cartoons are there.

Rāmeśvara: Yet now there is a new controversy in America, because during Christmas season our book distributors dress themselves up as Santa Claus. You've seen Santa Claus?

Prabhupāda: They . . . they . . .

Rāmeśvara: Very fat, white beard. So the Christians got very angry. They think that Santa Claus is Christian, so we are impersonating to take advantage. But we were arguing that, "This Santa Claus, he is not Christian or Jewish. He is devotee of God." Originally Santa Claus is a saint, Saint Nicholas. So we were arguing, "How can you claim exclusive property of Christian? He is a servant of God. You are using this Santa Claus . . ."

Prabhupāda: Even Americans use also.

Rāmeśvara: ". . . to sell liquor and sell cigarettes." If you watch the TV, you see that they have commercials, and Santa Claus is encouraging people, "Buy liquor," "Buy cigarettes." But we are using Santa Claus, encouraging people to . . .

Prabhupāda: Read book.

Rāmeśvara: . . . read books (laughs). Anyway, there was some controversy, and they had this one cartoon—I sent it—outside the place where Lord Jesus was born, and the father of Jesus is seeing outside there are three Hare Kṛṣṇas playing mṛdaṅga.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: But dressed as Santa Claus. And he is saying: "Would you believe Hare Kṛṣṇa?" So that actually is very good for us, that cartoon. They are putting us with Jesus. For them to do that is very good for us.

Hari-śauri: . . . (indistinct)

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Somehow, whatever we do now, they find some fault and then they write about it in the newspaper, and millions of people read about us.

Prabhupāda: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya (BG 2.40). Any way, if something is done in this connection, it becomes an asset.

Rāmeśvara: Now, this Governor of California, he invited us to assist him for helping the conditions in these mental retarded hospitals. So that is like mundane charity, in one sense. So is it all right for our men to take some time? Because the end result will be that we will become appreciated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, you do. Wherever we get opportunity, we shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. We can teach them to chant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is our medicine.

Rāmeśvara: But, of course, the main thing is that the governor, he is not inviting us so much to give religion. He wants . . .

Prabhupāda: No, this is our method to cure.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. "You have invited, so this is our method of curing, 'Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " And that's a fact. Go there, prepare prasādam, offer to the Deity, ask them to chant in the school. Who will object to this? There cannot be any objection, anyone.

Rāmeśvara: No, except that there is this controversy that if you chant, you are limiting your brain, washing, brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: That is our treatment. If you want that treatment, this is our treatment.

Rāmeśvara: So I have been thinking for some time . . . I have discussed this idea with Yadubara, because you wrote in your letter to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa that we should use movies also to convince them. So I had this idea to have a movie photographing India at different places . . .

Prabhupāda: In movie there is chanting, dancing.

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking to show that chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is very old.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There are temples all over India, and . . . a movie about Vaiṣṇavism, not so much just Hare Kṛṣṇa, but Vaiṣṇavism in general. Now, in the colleges in America they are always eager to have movies about Hinduism, Muhammadanism, Buddhism, for showing to their students, but whenever they have a movie about Hinduism, it is all bogus—many gods, many demigod worship, nature worship. And the people who make these movies for college classes have no conception. So I was thinking, if we make a scholarly movie about Vaiṣṇavism . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do. You can do.

Rāmeśvara: . . . which will convince people that chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is very accepted in India . . .

Prabhupāda: You take . . . you take this. I'll give you hint. You can develop it. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). The beginning is hearing about Kṛṣṇa—Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. Big, big sabhā, you'll find many Vaiṣṇavas chanting. They are reciting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and hundreds and thousands are hearing.

Hari-śauri: Hmm. Show the nine devotional processes . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, the nine devotional process and how, by each process, one becomes perfect. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, simply hearing, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī, simply chanting, reciting Bhāgavatam. So both of them got salvation. Lakṣmī, she is simply pāda-sevanam, giving massage to the lotus feet of the Lord. Arjuna simply made friendship with Kṛṣṇa. Hanumān simply worked as a hard servant. He doesn't know what He is . . . "Lord Rāmacandra wants it." Then it is done. Jump over. He does not know any philosophy. He has got bodily strength, so whatever Rāmacandra says, he'll do. He was asked to bring that medicine for Lakṣmaṇa. He did not know where to find it: "Take this whole mountain." (laughter) That is Hanumān. He was not intelligent. "Fight! We have to fight with Rāvaṇa. Then block his whole city by throwing stones and trees and dirt." Everything became blocked; they could not move. So in one side he is born of animal life, he had no higher intelligence, but his staunch desire that, "I shall serve Lord Rāmacandra . . ." By that. Only this desire made him perfect. Dāsyam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). So smaraṇam. Prahlāda Mahārāja, five-years-old boy, how he could protest against such a powerful demon father? He was simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, "All right, my father is punishing me. What can I do?" Simply absorbed, smaraṇam.

Rāmeśvara: One thing they will like to see in this movie is many different temples, beautiful temples from South India, and also Vaiṣṇava festivals.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Like Ratha-yātrā in Jagannātha Purī.

Prabhupāda: And the stories also, that how by executing one of the items a devotee becomes perfect.

Hari-śauri: And show how they're doing those . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: . . . items in different sampradāyas and . . .

Rāmeśvara: This will show, this movie will show, that Vaiṣṇavism is very authorized.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is widespread. Because that . . . they are criticizing.

Prabhupāda: No, no, this, this, this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, this śloka was cited just little after the creation. That means millions and millions of years ago. Now, not recently. Many millions and billions of years ago. This is the oldest. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). Whichever item you take, it is very, very . . . just like this Parīkṣit Mahārāja. That is at least five thousand years ago. So where is the history of the human society in the Western countries? They cannot give history more than three thousand years.

Rāmeśvara: They think it is simply caveman.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Prehistoric. They call it pre-history—living in caves, monkey men. Also, I was thinking, in the movie they can take the testimonial of different scholars and professors in India about your books and about chanting as a process for awakening the mind, because they are accusing us that, "By chanting, you are killing your brain." So if we take . . .

Prabhupāda: That, it is acting, rascal, on brain. We are teaching or giving them process. That you cannot understand. But our mantra is so strong that it is acting on the brain. So why don't you take this side that, "If we are simply chanting and it is acting on the brain, even from your side, that it is so strong that we are giving up everything for this process. So how much this chanting is strong, why don't you see to that?"

Rāmeśvara: We can even take testimony from some scientists . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: . . . about chanting.

Prabhupāda: "Why it is happening? Why we have given everything. Our father, mother, our home, our comforts, our ideas, stereotyped, our religion, culture—everything we have given up. So don't you see the power of chanting? You may think it is bad, but see the power. Similarly, these diseased person, if they chant, it has got power to bring him in the normal condition. The power is there. It is already proved. You say it is brainwash, but the power is there. Reaction is there. That's a fact. You are admitting. So now, whether this reaction is good or bad, that you cannot judge because you are bad. But impersonally, if you judge, you see how the power is, that you were drunkards, you were woman-hunter, you were meat-eaters—you have given up. You cannot give up even smoking cigarette. So just this is the power. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)." Why don't you take this side? The power is there. The electric power is there, either you use it for heater or for cooler. That is your na . . . but the power is there. Without this power, it cannot run on, either heater or cooler. Give them this recipe. "You have to admit. You are admitting that 'Your Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra working on the brain.' So the power is there. You have admitted."

Hari-śauri: Yeah, they admit the power.

Prabhupāda: That is . . . that is some . . .

Hari-śauri: But we have to show them that it's good.

Prabhupāda: And "You do not know what is good. It is good. We have given up these bad habits, sinful life. It is not . . . but you have no idea that these are good. You have idea, but out of your definite malice you cannot appreciate. You are spending millions of dollars for giving up this LSD, and our power is so strong, as soon as one comes, he gives up. But you are so rascal, you do not appreciate. That means you are rascal. Our power is there; our reaction is there for good. That's a fact. But you cannot understand. You are so rascal, you are so fallen down. The same, like the hog. He does not know what is the . . . how nice is halavā. You give him halavā; he'll not take it. He will take stool. That is his misfortune. You cannot say that halavā is bad, but he cannot appreciate because he's hog. He'll prefer to eat stool. We are giving up these nonsense, nasty things. You cannot appreciate. 'Oh, they are giving up meat-eating? It is brainwashing.' You are so low, hog life." Tell them like that. "As the hog cannot appreciate what is the value of nice halavā, similarly you cannot appreciate. Your brain has to be washed. Please come inside. We shall wash it." Is it not?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes that, "You require to . . . your brain to be washed. Then you'll understand the value of this. So let us treat you. Come here. You are a good candidate."

Rāmeśvara: So far, the movies that Yadubara has made, the colleges will not use them in their religion classes so much because they are . . . they seem to be just religious propaganda for Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So if this movie is made in a more scholarly way, the field is very good. They will use it in every college class all over the country. And also . . .

Prabhupāda: Which movie?

Rāmeśvara: The one I'm thinking of having Yadubara make, shooting in India, professors' and scientists' testimony plus Vaiṣṇava festivals and Vaiṣṇava temples.

Prabhupāda: No, that . . . and you'll see Tirupati, how they are standing for hours together.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, like that. And also, if the movie is made very well, then we can make an excerpt . . .

Prabhupāda: How they are contributing their hard-earned money, how it is, they are collecting money, huge amount.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, they'll interview very wealthy people also. Good idea.

Prabhupāda: They're not all wealthy. Wealthies are giving more, and poor men also give.

Rāmeśvara: But in America, if they see that a wealthy man is also worshiping Kṛṣṇa . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: . . . then they'll have respect for it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: If they think just poor people . . .

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: . . . they'll not respect it as much.

Prabhupāda: Just like . . . the temples are maintained by all the people. All the big, big kings . . . so you show how kings of Cuttack, they constructed a temple of . . . a temple construction is costly affair. How Mahārāja Mansingha constructed the Vṛndāvana, costly temples. That is everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: If this movie is made properly . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: . . . I think we can even get it on television in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything done properly will be accepted. There is no problem.

Rāmeśvara: Our movies so far cannot be on television because they are too much Hare Kṛṣṇa propaganda. But if this is done in a way they will not know that it is the Hare Kṛṣṇa propaganda, but it will be there anyway. It will be like a very scholarly, academic movie. And then they'll show it on television. They're eager . . . because it's such a controversy about chanting and meditation, whether it is brainwashing or not, so if we make this movie, they'll put it on nationwide television.

Prabhupāda: And what you can do? You can show some temples or you can show some meeting of Bhāgavata recital. That's it, two things.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. And also festivals like Ratha-yatra, millions of people coming, big public festivals. I was thinking that Bhārgava and Yadubara can travel together in India, because Bhārgava has been to many places.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: And they'll also appreciate beautiful photography showing the beauty of India. They'll appreciate that also. And beautiful temples.

Prabhupāda: Artistic.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, it'll show the higher religious culture of India. That will impress many people in America. They think of India as so backwards, but they'll see that they have these beautiful temples.

Prabhupāda: So that is due to British propaganda. British propaganda was that they were staying in India to make India civilized.

Rāmeśvara: Their big propaganda is that, "India is so poor, and they are so stupid, they are giving all their money to the temple, so they are remaining poor. So what is the use of this religion?" That was the propaganda, that "Religion is the opiate of the people."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not . . . therefore they are . . . the Indian rascals, they using this income of Bālajī for industry. They are bringing that, "The poor people, on account of their innocence, they are blindly, so . . ." Communist movement is against us because we are constructing costly temples, crores and rupees. This could have been utilized in industry. That is their protest. Temple construction was practically stopped in India. And I have again revived. Nobody was interested to construct temple anywhere within the recent at least hundred years or fifty years.

Hari-śauri: Only the Birlas.

Prabhupāda: Ah, only Birlas, yes.

Rāmeśvara: In America, if we collect money saying we are sending it to India, if we tell them we are sending it to build a temple in India, they will not give one penny. They think "India has too many temples. They need money for food, for technology."

Prabhupāda: So we can take money for food. That is also our program.

Rāmeśvara: Well, I'm going to try to develop this record business. I think we can make a million dollars a year, profit.

Prabhupāda: And send it for . . .

Rāmeśvara: For food.

Prabhupāda: . . . our farms, and we invite, "Come here. Take prasādam."

Rāmeśvara: Oh, the farm communities. Oh, not just food relief, but also developing the farm projects.

Hari-śauri: That's food relief.

Prabhupāda: Now, my project is that we shall actually give them food, shelter and . . .

Rāmeśvara: Cottages, little cottages.

Prabhupāda: And cloth, whatever primary necessities, and simple living, and let them chant.

Rāmeśvara: They chant and also work the fields.

Prabhupāda: So they, in the beginning, if they are not working . . . they'll work. We shall supply food, everything. And that . . . that is well beginning. In Hyderabad they are coming daily, two hundred people. And I kept with them fifty thousand rupees and told . . . but as soon I came, they have stopped, this, our Haṁsadūta. I do not know what is the reason. He said: "There is no money." I gave them fifty thousand rupees. He said: "There is no money." He's not good manager at all. It has been proved. He's not a good manager. Everywhere failure.

Rāmeśvara: He's very good at kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Hmm, that's right. He is sincere devotee and he's . . . but as soon as you give something to manage, he'll make a mess. (laughs) I have told him that, "I shall pay you. You continue this prasāda distribution, kīrtana program." They are coming, up to two hundred. And now he has finished it.

Rāmeśvara: Two hundred people were coming every day?

Prabhupāda: Every day. And that is little, simple prasāda. Little khichdi would satisfy them. They're village people.

Rāmeśvara: So they have to have regular source of income.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And so long there is no income, I shall supply food or money.

Rāmeśvara: This year I think I can spend some time developing this record. I'm sure we can make money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, make money.

Rāmeśvara: With very little manpower.

Prabhupāda: And send . . . send grains. Send grains, food grains, and we shall utilize it in all our temples and farm projects in the beginning. Then they'll . . . naturally they'll produce. As soon as they become little interested in our scheme, they'll give service.

Rāmeśvara: And this will also be a good angle for getting the record tax exempt. The books are already tax exempt, but not the record. So if the money from the record is going to be used for feeding people . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: . . . automatically they'll give us tax exemption.

Prabhupāda: Actually, India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure. So whatever money is coming, they are spending for their luxury. And poor men . . . the Gandhi's movement, "Boycott British goods," but they took it, "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position—rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that, "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit. And they give contribution to Gandhi, Gandhi's staff, Jawaharlal Nehru's staff. And they took the opportunity that "I shall pay this rascal one lakh, and I shall utilize the ten lakhs." That's it. So the object of exploitation remained the same. Rather, by artificial inflation of money market put common men in plight. Because the other day I was calculating . . . the things have gone high priced, thirty times, but the income has not increased thirty times. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we had no scarcity. In our standard of life there was no scar . . . what standard of . . .? That standard of life is still. Now that three hundred rupees is . . . he calculated.

Hari-śauri: Price of gold, it was based on.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: We worked out the price of gold.

Prabhupāda: Yes, gold standard. Gold standard . . . at that time gold was selling . . . my mother was purchasing gold for ornament at twenty rupees per tola. Now the gold in India is six hundred rupees.

Rāmeśvara: Thirty times.

Prabhupāda: Thirty times.

Rāmeśvara: So that three hundred rupees is like nine thousand.

Prabhupāda: Nine thousand. And who has got nine thousand rupees' income?

Rāmeśvara: Per month?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That three hundred rupees is equal to nine thousand rupees now. Now, a middle-class man, who has got nine thousand rupees' income? Maybe one thousand, two thousand . . . (break) . . . same thing, thirty times. The same ghee is selling not less than twenty-five, up to thirty. Thirty times. Take anything, rice, dāl, wheat, two annas per seer. And now they charge two rupees, three rupees per kilo. So from two annas to two rupees—sixteen times more.

Rāmeśvara: America also . . .

Prabhupāda: No, sixteen—thirty-two times.

Rāmeśvara: Thirty-two times.

Prabhupāda: You take average, thirty times more. Cloth, you could purchase very nice cloth, one rupee six annas. Now that is thirty rupees. So in this way proportionately, average thirty times, everything. Everything has increased thirty times. So I am speaking when we were child, say eight years—seven years, eight years old—or up to ten years. So I am now eighty-one. Seventy years ago, and now the difference is thirty times. We were purchasing milk, two annas per seer, and now it is three rupees per kilo. That is also, we do not know whether it is milk or some white water.

Hari-śauri: In most cases it's white water.

Prabhupāda: And we were purchasing real milk, how tastes, how is full of fat. So nice.

Rāmeśvara: So they may say this philosophy, that's like the communism, capitalism, Russia, America. The business of exploiting the masses is the same, they'll say. Different names, different dress, but the main business is going on.

Prabhupāda: Expert. Nobody is thinking how everyone is happy. That we are thinking, because we are devotees. Otherwise what is the use of my going to America? So America is not in need of me, but I found there is need of me. So they are thinking, "This man has come to wash our brains." And I think that, "Yes, we are going to do wash. If they take it, they will be happy." This is a fact. Hmm? (chuckles)

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, could I ask one more question about the records?

Prabhupāda: Mmm.

Rāmeśvara: Suppose we make a profit. Someone may enquire, "Isn't it better to use the money to distribute more books rather than giving it to the food program?"

Prabhupāda: No, no. Books department has already sufficient income.

Rāmeśvara: I would personally like to use it for the food program.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Book we are getting.

Rāmeśvara: So that's the answer, then.

Prabhupāda: And we are not taking any profit. Neither the seller, neither the author is taking any profit. So there is enough money. You haven't got to pay either to the seller or to the writer, then why not spend the whole income? No profit. So we save income tax. And whatever little excess is there, promotion or advertise, or pay some gṛhasthas some pocket expenses. In this way make it meet. No profit. By our arrangement there is no question of profit, but even there is profit, we should pay the gṛhasthas some expenditure. He has . . . family man, there is. In this way, make always no profit. I was doing from the very beginning the . . . (indistinct) . . . then I began to sell books. I was working, I was selling, I was collecting, I was spending, going to the printer—everything. Forcing, in due time I was publishing, fortnightly. If I don't force in due time, they'll not give me the concession rate; still I am doing. So I think this book department, by grace of Kṛṣṇa, is all right. You don't require to invest. But whatever income you'll get from this record business, spend it for giving prasādam. So we have got so many centers, they will feed.

Rāmeśvara: Hmm. That's very good. That way a whole new department.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I started Māyāpur this prasāda distribution. And it is coming to be successful. People are . . . politicians are appreciating that here is Hindu-Muslim unity.

Rāmeśvara: All the devotees will appreciate this, then, that the records now, the money is going to be used for food relief.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we can increase. The same thing we see in the farm, in the village, "Come on, any number, I shall feed you. Come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And we shall increase the quality of the prasādam. They will be very much pleased to come and chant. That I want. I am interested in these rascals . . . (indistinct) . . . fighting amongst themselves. What can I do? You can go for some time, see what is the reason he has come . . . (indistinct) . . . elderly person, he will come. And if you deliver something . . . (indistinct) . . . younger brothers . . . (indistinct) . . . but that he has no power to do. Misunderstanding there will be; after all, it is the material world. You go and see why he said. (pause) I used to think like that. In all our temples the prasāda distribution should be so round-up, that within ten miles nobody should remain hungry. There are many persons in India, they are half time hungry. And if you distribute prasādam, "Come over here. You are hungry, take prasādam. If I cannot supply you daily, I'll supply at least two days, three days weekly." And they're coming. You have seen Māyāpur . . . (indistinct) . . . that big prasāda distribution hall. Regular two thousands people are coming, Sunday, Saturday. And Hindu, Muslim, they're sitting down. No grudges.

Hari-śauri: Is there any reason why we are . . . just distribute on a Saturday and Sunday?

Prabhupāda: Oh, if we can, we can distribute every day.

Hari-śauri: Let them come every day.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is . . . (indistinct) . . . otherwise I want. Let them eat. They can eat.

Hari-śauri: If they get this record thing successful, and they get regular amounts . . .

Prabhupāda: It will be successful.

Hari-śauri: . . . then they could increase that.

Prabhupāda: It will be successful.

Rāmeśvara: I think we can make a million dollars a year.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: After it has been developed.

Prabhupāda: And purchase grains. From Canada purchase wheat. It's cheap.

Rāmeśvara: I've studied that more Americans buy records than books. They spend more money buying records than buying books.

Prabhupāda: Mmm. That is natural.

Rāmeśvara: But commercially there's some good potential.

Prabhupāda: But do not neglect book sales.

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: That will not do. This is our first business.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, in the Back to Godhead magazine, one question has come up. Now that England is printing their own, India is printing their own, so this magazine that we print in America, ninety percent, ninety-five percent is sold in America.

Prabhupāda: But that is English, and in India vernacular, so there is no question of competition.

Rāmeśvara: Right. So the question is that in magazines in America, the readers like very much to have a feeling of who the author is, who the different writers are, the editors. So we are using our spiritual names on the list of writers and editors and so on. So they have asked me to enquire whether in parentheses they can also have their legal names.

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Rāmeśvara: That way, because they cannot pronounce these names—Gopīparanadhana . . .

Prabhupāda: Fine. Allow this.

Rāmeśvara: . . . then it seems like a foreign thing.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you can do it.

Rāmeśvara: So should we have both names?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Use both names.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: I think this will help the readers . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: . . . relate more. (pause) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (pause) So where shall I wash my mouth? There?

Hari-śauri: Yeah, that's the only place. (break) (end)