721015 - Conversation - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

721015LE-VRNDAVAN - October 15, 1972 - 27:12 Minutes

Dr. Kapoor: . . . here at Rādhā-Dāmodara, after his long tour of the world, in which he broadcast the message of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the different karmas, to the different nationalities of the world. This return back to homeland of Śrīla Prabhupāda is particularly significant, because this time he comes back with a host of his Western disciples. This signifies to me the meeting of the East and the West, or at least the beginning of such a meeting. This signifies the victory of spiritualism over materialism, of good over evil.

This is really a rare moment in history, for, for the first time in the history of the world, for the first time at least in living memory, Vaiṣṇavism, the message of Vaiṣṇavism, the message of Mahāprabhu, the message of devotion and of pure devotion has been carried to the West and carried so successfully. I am sure that historians of the future will have a lot to say about Prabhupāda and his movement, and they will be even envious of us for living in a time when this movement was begun and for participating in it.

I have a secret realization that at this moment, while we are welcoming Prabhupāda, Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī, Śrī Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, whose samādhis signify their eternal presence in the sacred precincts of this temple, are also joining us in welcoming Prabhupāda, and they are showering their choicest blessings upon him. I can hear them saying, "Long live Prabhupāda! Long live Prabhupāda!" I am sure as a result of their presence, Prabhupāda will live long for many, many more years to broadcast the message of Caitanya Mahāprabhu all the world over and to inspire us, to inspire us with a special zeal in our hearts. And I am sure as a result of their blessings he will rise always, from glory, glory.

I have also a secret realization that Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī and Jīva Gosvāmī are not only showering their blessings upon Prabhupāda but also upon the Western disciples of Prabhupāda who have come along with him and saying that in the process will be realized the message of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and surely and steadily advance on the path of peace, happiness and divine grace. (applause)

Prabhupāda: So blessings of Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor. He is a Vaiṣṇava. Although by age he is my younger brother, we are Godbrothers, and for the last forty years perhaps, since he was a student at Allahabad and I was doing some business there, we are known to each other. So his association is a great blessing for us. But this reception is actually not my reception. It is the reception of my foreign students.

Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that His message should be broadcast all over the world, in every village and every town, and my Guru Mahārāja attempted. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura distributed his literature. I think, in 1896, he sent his first book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and I saw in McGill University that book. And I do not know . . . that was the year of my birth also, 1896. So somehow or other, later on, I came in contact with Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja in 1922, and he immediately asked me that "Why don't you go to the foreign countries and preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's blessings?"

So I was little surprised. Especially at that time, I was very young man and I was newly married. I got one son also. So it was my mistake that I did not take up the words of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja immediately. I thought that, "I am now married. Let me settle down." Perhaps if I would have joined from 1922, by the blessings of Guru Mahārāja, I could do more preaching work. Anyway, it is better late than never. After my retirement, I was living in the Keśī-ghāṭa . . . Nathgaon . . . Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple. But this Gosāijī, Gauracanda Gosāijī, he asked me, "Why don't you come here?"

So I left that place. I came here. And with some arrangement, I took this room. But I was always thinking that "Guru Mahārāja asked me, and he asked also some of my other Godbrothers, but up till now, nothing has been done. So let me try, at least, at the fag end of my life." So I left Vṛndāvana in 1970 and went to New York. Uh, not . . . 1965, at the age of 70 years. But for one year I had no place to live. I took some of my books, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, printed here, up to three parts, First Canto. And I was personally selling these books to the book-sellers and to the persons any way. With great difficulty I was pulling on. And New York is a very expensive city, a great city, a great forest. (laughs) And I am poor man.

So then . . . it is a long history. Then I began chanting in the Tompkinson Square, and I think, in the first day this boy, Acyutānanda Mahārāja now, he and another boy, Brahmānanda Mahārāja—he is also preaching in Africa—these two boys danced, and this photograph was published in the New York Times with great details. That was the first encouragement. And after chanting in the park, many young men and girls used to come to my apartment and my meeting place.

In this way I started, first in New York, then in San Francisco, then Montreal, then Boston. In this way, now we have got about one hundred branches all over the world— forty branches in America. Big, big cities, Austra . . . I mean to say, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Boston. What is that? Other cities?

Devotees: San Francisco. Dallas.

Prabhupāda: San Francisco. Dallas. Dallas we have got very nice temple.

Devotee: Detroit.

Prabhupāda: Detroit. I thought that our temple, Los Angeles temple, is the best. But this year I went to Dallas. Oh, it is better than Los Angeles. (laughter) It is so nice. Now we are trying to purchase the Berkshire palace in England. Yes. That was being occupied by the Duke of Windsor. I don't think whether I have got . . . received one letter from? No. So the price is 500,000 dollar.

Dr. Kapoor: 500,000 dollars?

Prabhupāda: Yes. $500,000 means five crores, according to Indian exchange.

Dr. Kapoor: (laughing) Fabulous.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) So I had no money, (laughter) but one nice boy—his name is known all over the world, George Harrison—he has promised to give me loan.

Dr. Kapoor: Kṛṣṇa has all the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So actually, we are spending not less than seven lakhs of rupees per month throughout the whole our institution. But by the grace of God, Kṛṣṇa, we are selling our books very nicely.

Dr. Kapoor: That's very encouraging. That's most encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are selling our books, average, at the rate of 25,000 rupees per day.

Dr. Kapoor: Ah. (laughs) That is unbelievable, I must . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are selling magazines, books, and especially our Nectar of Devotion is selling like hotcakes. (laughter) Nectar of Devotion. So Kṛṣṇa is encouraging. There is no scarcity. And I am traveling throughout the world at least twice in a year. And each time we have to spend . . . now we purchased $20,000 ticket for four persons, $20,000. Twenty thousand dollars means how much in Indian exchange? Two lakhs? Do you know?

Dr. Kapoor: Two lakhs kaise hoga, jyada hoga . . . (How is it, two lakhs? It should be more . . .)

Prabhupāda: Twenty thousand dollars. Das rupiya samajh liziye. (Consider one dollar as ten rupees.) Twenty thousand to ten times. Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: Two hundred . . .

Prabhupāda: Two hundred thousand. That means two lakhs. So our expenditure is going like that. Keep book. And we print at least ten thousand books, fifty thousand books. Our Kṛṣṇa Trilogy . . .

(aside) Have you got here, Kṛṣṇa Trilogy? You have seen?

Dr. Kapoor: No.

Prabhupāda: Show him that book, Kṛṣṇa Trilogy. That is selling . . . that is now recommended in some of the colleges as textbook. Nectar of Devotion is also recommended as textbook in the Temple University, Philadelphia.

Dr. Kapoor: Ācchā, very good. That's very good. And students are accepting in all earnestness.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Accepting. Accepting. No. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Dr. Kapoor: This also, I haven't seen yet.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is being published by Macmillan Company. They printed in the last half month of August, fifty thousand. That is now finished, now going to second edition.

Dr. Kapoor: Ah. Kṛṣṇa is working wonders.

Prabhupāda: So . . .

(aside) what is this?

Devotee: Trilogy is not at this place.

Prabhupāda: Not here?

Devotee: Not at this place. I think we have it . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whichever book we are publishing, that is being accepted. And people inquire, when they go for saṅkīrtana in big, big cities, they inquire, "Have you got this book? Have you got this book?" Yes. And we are receiving mail orders, at least twenty mail orders. And this time I was surprised.

They have taken a godown in Los Angeles. This is bigger than the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. So big. Only for stocking books and incense. We are manufacturing incense. That I suggested. Sometimes I went to Ramakrishna Mission and I saw they are selling incense. So I suggested that, "Why don't you . . ." So I gave them idea how to manufacture. Because I have . . .

Dr. Kapoor: You have the background.

Prabhupāda: I can give them. They are asking me about my pain liniment and the eczema ointment. (laughter) I can give them. I can give them, but . . .

Dr. Kapoor: You can tell them you are now selling Kṛṣṇa-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: But I warned them that, "Do not become too much business." (laughter) Yāvad arthaḥ prayojana. You require some money. So you are selling this incense and books. Kṛṣṇa is giving us sufficiently. If you divert your attention, I can give the whole pharmacopeia, because I have got good experience to manufacture.

So in this way Kṛṣṇa is meeting our expenses, the expenses. And not only that. These American young boys, they are fully cooperating, these boys and girls. Where is that girl, Śāradīyā? Here is nice girl. You see? And where is your husband? Oh. Oh, why you are so skinny?

Śāradīyā: Prabhupāda, he just got over jaundice. In Bombay. He just got over. In Bombay he had bad . . .

Devotee: In Bombay he had jaundice.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So give him sugar candy water. Bring in the morning. You just . . . you know sugar candy? The sugar candy . . . just soak sugar candy at night in a glass, and the first business in the morning you should take that glass of water, sugar candy.

Śāradīyā: He is doing all of that now.

Prabhupāda: Ah. And he should not take at all ghee. No fatty preparation. And if it is possible, secure papaya, raw papaya, green, and boil it in the . . . these are the medicine for jaundice.

Dr. Kapoor: I see.

Prabhupāda: He is inside this room? He has come back?

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So, so you have come to Vṛndāvana, and just go on with bhajana, Rūpa Gosvāmī's place, and we are trying to construct a temple. (chuckles)

Dr. Kapoor: Yes. You are very lucky in almost getting, I think, that big building on the bank of the Yamunā . . . (indistinct) . . . kuṭir (. . . (indistinct) . . . name of the building.) It's a huge thing. A huge thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ye dan lena bauni inse hi hua hai. (He has inaugurated the beginning of the fund collection.)

Dr. Kapoor: Ha inse bauni, bauni achhi hui hai. (Oh, he is the first donor, the beginning has started well.) (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Nahi to aap ko kaun puchta hai? (Who else talks about you?)

Guest: Roj puchte hai ji. Roj puchta hai kitna baje wo ayenge . . . (indistinct) . . . pehle kaha jayenge ? (He asks daily. He asks daily at what time shall he arrive? . . . (indistinct) . . . where should he visit first?)

Prabhupāda: Mai bhi aap ko bishay soch raha tha. (I was also especially thinking about you.) Guest: Kripa hai aap ki. Daya hai aap ki. (Your grace. Your mercy.)

Prabhupāda: Thik hai. Sukhi rahiye. (That's alright. Be happy.)

Guest: Aap ki daya hai prabhu. Bhakt hi haat ki bauni hai, aap ki kripa hai. (It's all your mercy prabhu. The very first donation is from the hands of a devotee, it's your grace only.)

Prabhupāda: Rādhārāṇī asked him that he must do. See he is also pakkā bāniyā. (See, he is also a seasoned merchant.) (laughter) Without the order of Rādhārāṇī . . . he has not . . . but when he says Rādhārāṇī, Rādhārāṇī is asking, then he cannot refuse. Thank you very much.

Guest: Order ho giya, hum aap ko de diya. (We received the order and we gave it to you.) (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So prasādam. Give them prasādam. Is there any prasādam? (Very nice. So prasādam. Give them prasādam. Is there any prasādam?)

Gurudāsa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So distribute. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guests: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Bring some water. (break) So, that is more than governor's . . . (indistinct) . . . Hum kal apko bole the na? (Yes, didn't I tell you this yesterday?) Achha. (Alright) (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . (break) Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, mām eti. Koto speed. (So fast.) Mām eti. Immediately. I have given them this idea that senses, finer than the senses is the mind, and finer than the mind is intelligence, and finer than the intelligence is the soul. So the speed of soul one can imagine by comparing the speed of the mind.

The speed of the mind . . . you are sitting here. You can go immediately by the speed of mind, immediately twenty thousand miles or fifty thousand miles. But the soul is still finer. So how speedily we can go, that's a fact. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti.

Because according to śāstra, we can understand that when it is settled up where the spirit soul is going to take birth . . . it is very shortly settled up, and then immediately he is transferred through the semina of the father. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). This is in the Bhāgavata.

According to his karma and by the consideration of superior authority, the spirit soul is immediately transferred in the semina of the male, father. And he injects in the womb of the woman. And the two secretion emulsified, it becomes just like a pea, and that pea grows. And then nine holes are coming out, and they become eyes, ears, like that.

But Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā deham. So after giving up this body, one is immediately transferred to another material body. But tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9): he does not take any more in the material body. Then immediately he comes, mām eti. So how speedily he can go. Because he has to go through the universe and the covering of the universe. The covering of the universe, there are also earth, water, air, fire, ten times.

One element ten times more than the other element. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Arjuna, by the help of Kṛṣṇa, penetrated the walls of this universe, and he went to see Kāraṇodakśāyī Viṣṇu. And he returned. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he saw Kāraṇodakśāyī Viṣṇu. So penetrating this huge space and then covering, huge covering, and immediately he goes to Goloka Vṛndāvana, mām ekam

Dr. Kapoor: I think the journey is so fast because it is not in time. It is not in time. Time is transcended.

Prabhupāda: Time has nothing to do. That is stated in the Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that time has no influence there.

Dr. Kapoor: Neither day nor night.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no such thing.

Dr. Kapoor: Modern conception of speed is within the space of time. But our journey transcends time. Naturally it has to be faster than any journey you can imagine.

Prabhupāda: No. We speak from the śāstra. There is no question of imagination. We speak from śāstra. So we have explained, tried to explain these things in Easy Journey to Other Planets. And people are taking it very nicely. It is sold very quickly. Very quickly. (break) I would like to see you that you are living in palaces.

Yaśodānandana: We want to put Kṛṣṇa in palace.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśodānandana: We want to put Kṛṣṇa in palace.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given you the opportunity, you Americans. Now you are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be the most opulent nation of the world. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa both. You have got Lakṣmī, but if you take Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī will be permanent. Lakṣmī will not go. And if you reject Nārāyaṇa, then Lakṣmī will stay for some days . . . that is Cañcalā. Her name is Cañcalā.

The British empire has failed, the Roman Empire has failed, the so many empires, the Moghul empire has failed, because they wanted Lakṣmī, not Nārāyaṇa. If you take Nārāyaṇa, your Lakṣmī will stay. Just try to convince your countrymen, just like President Nixon. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that I was dictated to go to America, because Kṛṣṇa wants that you should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa wants. So you have taken. Now spread. (break) It will be grand success. And there are so many candidates, very nice.

All right, go on, take . . .

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Haribol. (break) (end)