760117 - Conversation - Mayapur

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

760117R1-MAYAPUR - January 17, 1976 - 20.40 Minutes

Devotee (1): ". . . Sanat Kumāras were going to Vaikuṇṭha to visit Lord Viṣṇu. They were stopped at the door by the doorkeepers, Jaya and Vijaya. But specifically, the Supreme Lord cannot be seen by ordinary eyes. But He can now become visible to the eyesight of the Kumāras. Another significant word is samādhi-vākyam. Meditators who are very fortunate see the Viṣṇu form of the Lord within their hearts by following the yoga process. But to see Him eye to eye is a different matter. It is only possible for pure devotees. The Kumāras therefore, before seeing the Lord . . ." (break)

Bhavānanda: . . . āratika?

Prabhupāda: No. No. That . . .

Bhavānanda: They have kīrtanas . . .

Prabhupāda: Going on.

Bhavānanda: Yes. (break)

Devotee (1): They could see the Lord face to face?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dhruva Mahārāja saw face to face. (break)

Sudama: . . . factured this in Hawaii. (break)

Prabhupāda: So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying: "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān . . ." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me?" This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering; it will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat, and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says: "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge—karmī, jñānī, yogī—they are also after sense gratification. Karmī is openly after sense gratification, and jñānī is subtly, "No, no. This kind of . . ." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming . . . I have failed; now I shall become God. Same sense grati . . . they cannot understand that this is also sense gratification. "I am not . . . no more satisfied by becoming a little minister and king and . . . no. I shall become God. Why shall I . . . by becoming king or minister I beg to the goddess of fortune, 'Mother, give me a little money.' Why shall I beg? I shall enjoy her. I become Nārāyaṇa." Same disease. A yogī also, after mystic power they want to show magic: "I shall make like this, and gold will be there. People will worship me as I am God." Do that. People do that. If you play something wonderful they will accept you: "Oh, you are God." But he does not know that he cannot become God. That is not possible. Although he gets little fractional authority to puzzle others that he has become God . . . because people are fools, if he can produce little gold like this, they will be immediately amazed, "Oh, how powerful he is." They have no capacity to understand. If God is meant for making gold, why not worship the God who has made already millions of gold mines? Unlimited. There is no limit. Why this paltry god? They have no such knowledge. They are amazed.

Hari-śauri: They have to go to so much trouble as well just to achieve that little flickering . . .

Prabhupāda: Very, very great trouble. You have not seen the yogīs? Of course, there are some . . . (break) But still, they have to undergo very severe processes for achieving this yogic power. And a devotee, they kick it that, "What is this nonsense?" (chuckles) That is devotee. "What is this nonsense? What shall I do by producing gold?" And I never tried for making gold, but is there any scarcity of gold? I never tried for how to make gold. That Sai Baba is showing some magic power. What of the Maharshi? Maha . . .

Harikeśa: Maharishi.

Prabhupāda: He was also after some yogic power.

Harikeśa: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: You were with him. You do not know? "The transcendental meditation—you will get this, you will get that." He is advertising in that . . .

Hari-śauri: All material opulence.

Harikeśa: Ultimately you will become God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the attempt.

Hari-śauri: And in the meantime, you can enjoy material world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: They never said anything more than you'll just get good sex life and good health.

Prabhupāda: That is . . . becoming God means the same—money and sex. That's all.

Harikeśa: Wouldn't it be handy, though, to be able to fly around without having to use airplanes?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Harikeśa: I mean, if you had some mystic opulence like being able to fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the yogīs can do that.

Harikeśa: Wouldn't that be handy? Wouldn't a devotee . . . couldn't a devotee utilize that?

Prabhupāda: What is the use? What is the use?

Harikeśa: Well, instead of taking airplanes here and there, you could just . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the difference? If by practicing severe yogic means you fly, the birds are also flying. They are flying without aeroplane. Does it mean that it has become very great? There are many birds, garuḍa bird. They can fly from one planet to another. Just like small birds, they fly from one tree to another, take rest again—so they fly from this planet to another, take rest, again another. What is the value of your aeroplane? You cannot go to another planet. There are birds, they catch up elephants and take it away for eating. Does it mean he has become . . . it has become God? There are Siddhaloka planets where the people can go without any aeroplane from one planet to another, Siddhaloka. They have got all yogic siddhi automatically, by birth. Just like we cannot fly, but a small bird, a small fly, from the birth it can fly. There are so many. So similarly, by birth they have got all yogic siddhis. This is called Siddhaloka. There are different varieties of planets, different varieties of perfection. Just like here also, I cannot dive into the water. A small fish can dive. I cannot fly in the sky, but a small sparrow, it can go from here, here, immediately. So does it mean he is very advanced in yogic power because he can fly? You are proposing that. Huh? Nothing is any big achievement. The big achievement is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is wanted. Not these things. These things . . . you cannot do; I can do. I cannot do; he can do. What is the greatness?

Harikeśa: It seems harder to control the tongue than to fly.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: It seems harder to control the tongue than to fly.

Prabhupāda: Fly?

Harikeśa: It takes more austerity to control one's tongue by chanting and taking prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Even that is not achievement. To control the senses, that is not very great achievement. The great achievement: how we have become a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So that will include everything. You haven't got to prepare gold, but if you want gold, Kṛṣṇa will send you. So why should I try for that and waste my time? Let me become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is required. Kṛṣṇa . . . yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22): "I shall give you all protection. I shall supply whatever you want," Kṛṣṇa said. So I shall do such thing when Kṛṣṇa will be my protector and supplier and everything. He is all-powerful, so He will do that—if I require. I don't require anything. I . . . simply I have to become a sincere, pure devotee. But if I require something, it will come from Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I try for it? A rich man's son, he doesn't do anything for earning money. He knows, "My father is rich, and as soon as I require money, he will give me. So why shall I become a big, big businessman and become a karmī?" Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upāry adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). You try for that thing which you did not achieve so long, even if you have traveled from different species of life, different planets. For that thing you try, which you have not achieved. Simply you have become implicated.

Hari-śauri: Why bother with something that's available to a hog?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: Why bother with something that is available even to the hogs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, even if you achieve such thing, achievement, so where is the guarantee that you'll . . . it will stay? The so-called achievements for sense gratification, that means body. The body is always troublesome. That day I was asking, "Did you taste the Birla's eggplant?" You said: "No, I could not take it," due to the body. So even things are there, the body will not allow you. There are many rich men, they have got money, but they cannot eat anything.

Hari-śauri: That John Paul Getty is the richest man in the world, and they asked him, "What would be your wish if you could have anything?" He said: "I just want to be healthy." He said, "I've got so much money, but I'm not healthy."

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many. There was a big, rich man in Calcutta, Raja Jyotindramana Ṭhākura. So just like you give me so many things, so he was king, he was getting more supply, but he had no appetite. So one day he was given so many things—because it was routine. So one coolie was going on the street, taking a fish and chanting very pleasingly. So he said that, "Instead of becoming Raja Jyotindramana Ṭhākura, if I could have been a coolie like that, at least I could enjoy by eating. And what is this? I have got everything, but I cannot eat." He regretted, "I would have become a coolie like that instead of becoming a . . ."

Hari-śauri: Everybody's mad after getting some big position, and then when they get it they find out it's even worse than where they started.

Prabhupāda: Because the body does not allow. So all, from all sides. We were discussing Prahlāda Mahārāja's . . . how he is experienced of this material way of life. It is all useless. So by following this mahājana devotees we can make our life perfect. Nothing is wanted except Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfection of life. That is instruction of . . . na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarim (CC Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). No, we don't want. Then what do you want? Mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaitukī. Without any motive let me become a sincere devotee of Lord. I don't want. That is perfection. Disgusted. Ar' nare bapu. No more. Everything useless.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Some smell is coming? No?

Harikeśa: Your transcendental senses are far beyond . . .

Prabhupāda: (door closes) Hmm. Automatically locked.

Harikeśa: The ghosts will be here too.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Harikeśa: The ghosts, they will be here too. (end)