770429 - Conversation - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770429R1-BOMBAY - April 29, 1977 - 34:24 Minutes

Prabhupāda: They say that the first-class yogī is he who will have as much as possible sex, but he will not discharge. Kṛṣṇa was that yogī. He had sex with so many gopīs, but He would not discharge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that?

Prabhupāda: That is the test of first-class yogī. These rascals, they say like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They call that tāntrika-yoga?

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is that . . . (indistinct) . . . I . . . one rascal fool, medical man, was attending my pharmacy. Dr. Ghosh was also. He used to say like that. He was practicing yoga.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was . . . that's what they're all doing.

Prabhupāda: And he'll not discharge. Still remain with his sperm. Yogī. Tāntrika-yogī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tāntrika.

Prabhupāda: And practice yoga in the crematorium. Nine woman friend, and sex, and perform meditation without discharge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where do they do this?

Prabhupāda: In the burning ghāṭa, where this dead body is burned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do this with a dead body?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. But they go there.

Prabhupāda: This is called tāntrika-yoga.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that book that had your Kṛṣṇa book quotation, there's a thing about tāntrika-yoga, and this very thing is mentioned. What you're telling me now, it's mentioned there, that the test is to have sex and not allow any semina. They mention that.

Prabhupāda: I have mentioned?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they quote from some other authority.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that we . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shall I . . .?

Prabhupāda: No, I don't . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but it's confirmed, anyway. Yeah, that's what that Rajneesh says. They asked him, "Why are you with so many women?" He said: "This is the proof, that I am able to be with all these women but not be disturbed." But that doesn't really answer why he's with them. Our point is, "Why are you with them? Never mind whether you're disturbed or . . . why are you with them? What benefit are you getting? They are not God. So why are you spending so much time with them?"

Prabhupāda: That is their way of sādhana. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone admits that this is luxurious, fifth floor of . . .

Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) . . . the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked, they have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee, and the ḍhāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things. And you can cook anywhere, without any difficulty. In India, especially in village, you can get so many dried cow dung. So fuel is ready. The āṭā is packed up. And ghee in a pot. That's all. How simple life. Simply they'll sit down where there is water, and they'll take water. Then everything is arranged. No hotel. Or even there is no āṭā, they keep their own ghee, homemade, pure. Āṭā can be purchased anywhere in the village. There is no need of carrying āṭā.

So this preparation for tourist . . . tourist, Indian tourist, means going to some holy place. They have no other sightseeing, no program. All villagers, they are still . . . the pilgrimage in holy places, now no educated man goes. Very rarely. All these villagers by thousands . . . they . . . you see this Tirupati, Tirumala. All the contribution by the villagers. By their hard-earned money they keep something for going. You have seen Tirupati, Tirumal . . .? Standing for hours to contribute in a line. Hundreds of people. They'll come, contribute something. Then they'll shave their head, see the Deity, have some bath in the adjoining lake. Then they'll take prasādam. That is very big tank. Everywhere. In India, wherever some famous temple is there, there is a tank. Now the haircutting, that lakhs of rupees are sold to foreign countries is hair. Heaps. These managers, they are selling the hairs. Very big business. The foreign countries, the black hair, they purchase it at good price for making wig. (pause) So that is written nice. He wanted to criticize me, but he could not do it very strongly. He did not like the idea that I am sticking to Bhagavad-gītā. That was his . . . but it has been shown that our sticking to Bhagavad-gītā, that is our mission. And it is a science. Why he called sectarian? When Kṛṣṇa says anything, that is science. "Two plus two equal to four" is acceptable by everyone. Why it is sect . . .? Actually, all religion is going on under the plea, "We believe." What is this nonsense, "We believe"? If you believe "Two plus two equal to five," will it be correct? Their religion is "We believe." So our Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is fact. That is the difference. (break) . . . of him. I was staying there in one big room. Crazy. Alone I am.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had tried to attack you?

Prabhupāda: No, he couldn't act. Gone crazy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Taking LSD.

Prabhupāda: So immediately I transferred myself to Yeargens, keeping my goods at Mukunda's place, Michael. Then I searched out this 26 Second Avenue. From going to 26 Second Avenue taking this risk of two hundred dollars, then I became little relieved. Before that, I was simply vagabond. That was the first shelter. Then this Kīrtanānanda, Hayagrīva, Satsvarūpa, Umāpati, they guided. Brahmānanda. Some other boys also came, and they left.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stryadhīśa.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Stryadhīśa. So after getting that shelter, I began to grow. Everything was very precarious condition—vagabond. I was selling some books. I thought that, "This boy will be trained up" when I got that place. He invited me, "Come to my loft." It was very big loft. I was holding class, collecting ten dollars. Then he was not paying rent. He gave me the charge of paying rent. So Kṛṣṇa was giving by collecting. It was on this top. Still, people were coming. Great story. Never mind. Now we . . . from my part, whatever is possible. Now you take care. That is my request. Don't spoil it. Now it is up to you. My, this failing health . . . I can pass away at any moment. My health is not good. I am old man; it is not surprising. Now you GBC, young boys, all, American, expert, you have got all intelligence, resources, so don't spoil. Let the movements go forward more and more. Now you have got nice places, filled with devotees. Don't be anxious for me. That, Kṛṣṇa will take. And even if I go, where is the harm? Old man. I have given my ideas and direction in my books. People appreciate. I think from my side I have done everything. Is it not? Do you think or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you have done everything.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? So you are young men, American boys.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still, we want the whole Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That will be done. Even it is not fulfilled, so there is no harm. But don't send me, in any case, in hospital. Now I am pointing out this. They are useless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no doubt that you know your body a lot better than they could ever know it. You've lived with it for so many years. They just take somebody's body and they make so many . . .

Prabhupāda: Now it is a fact, the Yasrael (Israel) Hospital failure. (break) So many temples. I have given my program how to manage it. Now you see. That is my anxiety, that there may not be any discrepancies or slackness. Am I right or wrong? Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So far money is here, scattered, you can take charge and do the needful. I kept some money here, there, just to . . . but now you can take charge of the all money, one or two or three of you, and let me remain free from all management. And only request is, don't spoil it. I sometimes chastise everyone that may not be spoiled. You are taking care of everything, but still more careful. I can live without any food, simply taking these fruits. There is no difficulty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there are people who do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we don't care for the lunch. What is the . . . I am sitting idly. I haven't got to work hard. I don't require food, little fruits even. Those who are working, they require food to get strength, but I am sitting idly, and brain is working. So far my physical necessity, there is no necessity of food. But I may not so depend on that going to the bath, toilet. I require . . . and that is also not required. There are many persons. That Rajda . . . I . . . He was also. I have seen many men, for rising up, they require help.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's normal in old age. That's not unusual.

Prabhupāda: I can walk. There is no difficulty. But getting up . . . I can . . . if I try, I can get up also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you would do it even in Māyāpur. Sometimes you would ring the bell and no one came. You'd get up yourself.

Prabhupāda: That is also not difficult.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But why should you take that risk?

Prabhupāda: No, I shall not. I fell down . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: . . . in Calcutta. That is bathroom, very slippery. Anyway, why shall I take the risk?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we don't want that.

Prabhupāda: So hold meeting daily and chalk out program. Do very diligently everything so I can see that things are going on nicely without my managerial interference. That will make me happy. And I'll go on writing books. There is . . . (hums) (pause) You are feeling all right?

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. I was just thinking of . . . when you were speaking about not eating . . . we take pleasure in watching you eat. It is our pleasure to see you eat and enjoy the prasādam. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . mentally to keep the brain, little fruit, milk, is sufficient. So I may live only on fruit or milk. There is no difficulty. What is the use of taking cāpāṭis and rice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, when you have a taste for it, then you should take.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is practice. As food value, fruits and milk is sufficient.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Habit is there also.

Prabhupāda: All the great saintly persons in India, they used to live in forest. What food? Only fruits and milk. Sometimes they used to take grains, otherwise milk and fruit. Simple milk is all food, cow's milk. I want to take cow's milk. This is all rubbish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Really?

Prabhupāda: Little cow's milk twice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside) That milk's not good, Prabhupāda said.

Prabhupāda: So far gurukula is concerned, that also, I have given program. They have given the name of "girls." We are not going to do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that?

Prabhupāda: Girls. Boys and girls. That is dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gurukula.

Prabhupāda: In that article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, oh, oh.

Prabhupāda: Girls should be completely separated from the very beginning. They are very dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we're . . . I thought there were girls in Vṛndāvana now. They said that they're going to have the girls' gurukula behind the boys' gurukula. Gopāla was talking about that.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No girls.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be in another city or somewhere else.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be taught how to sweep, how to stitch . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Clean.

Prabhupāda: . . . clean, cook, to be faithful to the husband.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't require a big school.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is mistake. They should be taught how to become obedient to the husband.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you don't learn that in school.

Prabhupāda: Little education, they can . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That they can get at home also.

Prabhupāda: They should be stopped, this practice of prostitution. This is a very bad system in Europe and America. The boys and girls, they are educated—coeducation. From the very beginning of their life they will become prostitutes. And they encourage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: They distribute pills. I have seen the boys and girls dancing together, embracing, in the school . . . (indistinct) . . . that ruins the career. Both of them are ruined. That is very regrettable. Then you shall require this sterilization, pills, another big program. They are creating animal civilization, and when the animals are disturbing, they are trying to find out some other means. This is their program. First of all create animals. Then, when the animals behave like animals, then another program. Why do you create animal? Woman brahmacāriṇī, this is artificial.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our centers, though, there are so many brahmacāriṇīs, and even sometimes they're encouraged to remain brahmacāriṇī.

Prabhupāda: That they cannot. As soon as they will find opportunity, they will become vyabhicāriṇī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll become what?

Prabhupāda: Vyabhicāriṇī. For woman, protection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you don't advocate this remaining sing . . . these women remaining brahmacāriṇīs.

Prabhupāda: Therefore polygamy was allowed. Let them be taken care of, one husband, three wives. Therefore the kṣatriyas were taking hundreds of women. They had money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriyas, yes.

Prabhupāda: Just like we see, when Devakī was married, so many Devakī's young friends also went. They were taken shelter. The woman population is always bigger. (end)