770515 - Conversation - Hrishikesh

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

770515ED-HRISHIKESH - May 15, 1977 - 55:08 Minutes

Pradyumna: Translation: "The Blessed Lord said, one who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no work." Purport: "In this chapter the Lord explains that the process of the eightfold yoga system is a means to control the mind and the senses. However, this is very difficult for people in general to perform, especially in the age of Kali. Although the eightfold yoga system is recommended in this chapter, the Lord emphasizes that the process of karma-yoga, or acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is better. Everyone acts in this world to maintain his family and their paraphernalia, but no one is working without some self interest, some personal gratification, be it concentrated or extended. The criterion of perfection is to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and not with a view to enjoying the fruits of work. To act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the duty of every living entity because all are constitutionally parts and parcels of the Supreme. The parts of the body work for the satisfaction of the whole body. The limbs of the body do not act for self-satisfaction but for the satisfaction of the complete whole. Similarly, the living entity who acts for satisfaction of the supreme whole and not for personal satisfaction is the perfect sannyāsī, the perfect yogī. The sannyāsīs sometimes artificially think that they have become liberated from all material duties, and therefore they cease to perform agni-hotra yajñas, or fire sacrifices. But actually, they are self-interested because their goal is becoming one with the impersonal Brahman. Such a desire is greater than any material desire, but it is not without self-interest. Similarly, the mystic yogī who practices the yoga system with half-open eyes, ceasing all material activities, desires some satisfaction for his personal self, but a person acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness works for the satisfaction of the whole without self-interest. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no desire for self-satisfaction. His criterion of success is the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, and thus he is a perfect sannyāsī or perfect yogī. Lord Caitanya, the highest perfectional symbol of renunciation, prays in this way:

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

(CC Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4)

"O Almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor to enjoy beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. What I want only is the causeless mercy of Your devotional service in My life birth after birth."

Prabhupāda: There is any inquiry about . . .?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does anyone have any questions about this verse?

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Pradyumna:

yaṁ sannyāsam iti prāhur

'yogaṁ taṁ viddhi pāṇḍava

na hy asannyasta-saṅkalpo

yogī bhavati kaścana

(BG 6.2)

Translation: "What is called renunciation is the same as yoga, or linking oneself with the Supreme, for no one can become a yogī unless he renounces the desire for sense gratification." Purport: "Real sannyāsa-yoga, or bhakti, means that one should know his constitutional position as the living entity and act accordingly. The living entity has no separate, independent identity. He is the marginal energy of the Supreme. When he is entrapped by material energy, he is conditioned. And when he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, or aware of the spiritual energy, then he is in his real and natural state of life. Therefore, when one is in complete knowledge, one ceases all material sense gratification or renounces all kinds of sense gratificatory activities. This is practiced by the yogīs who restrain the senses from material attachment, but a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has no opportunity to engage his senses in anything which is not for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore a Kṛṣṇa conscious person is simultaneously a sannyāsī and a yogī. The purpose of knowledge and of restraining the senses, as described in the jñāna and yoga processes, is automatically served in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one is unable to give up the activities of his selfish nature, then jñāna and yoga are of no avail. The real aim is for a living entity to give up all selfish satisfaction and to be prepared to satisfy the Supreme. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no desire for any kind of self enjoyment. He is always engaged for the enjoyment of the Supreme. One who has no information of the Supreme must, therefore, be engaged in self-satisfaction, because no one can stand on the platform of inactivity. All these purposes are perfectly served by the practice of Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: So if they inquire, then you can discuss.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if . . . the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness requires inquiry and then discussion. So if anybody has any kind of questions about either of these two verses, if you can ask Śrīla Prabhupāda, that will give an opportunity for some discussion. Bhagavad-gītā is simply questions and answers between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is questions and answers between Parīkṣit Mahārāja and Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So this is the . . . the beginning of knowledge is when one inquires from a self-realized personality.

Prabhupāda: Actually, spiritual life means questioning. Mataji english samajhti hain? (Does your mother understand English?) Who requires a guru? Guru is not a fashion, as you keep some pet cat, pet dog. (chuckles) Guru is not like that. Ek guru bana lo ji. (Let's take a master.) So when you require a guru? Aiye, apke bina sabha ujjad hai. (Please come, without you the assembly has no life.)

Indian man (1): (laughing) . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupada: Bada mushkil ho raha hai. English me nahi bole to ye log nahi samajhenge. English bolne se mataji nahi samajhengi. (It is very difficult. If I don't speak in English then these people will not understand and if I speak in English then your mother will not understand.)

Indian man: That is why I spoke some words yesterday without your permission, sir, just to explain to them in Hindi. Some ladies were sitting in the back. And they were more interested in that picture, "Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhārāṇī," so I had explained.

Prabhupāda: English boliye. Accha kiye. Hum english me bole aap thoda hindi me explain kar dijiye. (Speak in English, very good. I will speak in English and you will explain it in Hindi.)

Indian man (1): I think that will be better. It will suit many.

Indian man (2): Aap to english me boliye. (You speak in English.)

Prabhupāda: So we are talking of who requires a guru. Guru is not a fashion. (loud yelling outside) Hmm? What is that?

Indian man (2): Hmm. Shouting by some people.

Indian man (1): I think all the educational institutions are closed for summer vacation. Therefore many students and these people may have come, and these might be scouts, or something like that. I'm not sure, but that is what I guess.

Prabhupāda: They have also manufactured. (laughter) This is going on.

Indian man (1): This shout, that shows they are scouts.

Prabhupāda: So Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru is required to understand tad-vijñānam, transcendental science, not for any material understanding. Material understanding, there are so many chemists, physists and many other departmental . . . when we speak of guru, it means beyond this material world. For that purpose we require guru. So . . . just like now it is being very much advertised that, "You execute meditation. Your mind will be strong. Your health will be strong." That means from material point. But keeping your health strong, the medical science is there, and so many other thing. But people are taking advantage of this yoga system. The śāstra says that dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). He is yogī who is meditating and mind is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is material. Material things does not require . . . maybe a gymnastic, muṣṭika.

Indian man (1): Not for self.

Prabhupāda: If you practice muṣṭika, naturally you become very stout and strong. There are many wrestlers, they have got very strong body. But yoga does not mean that. Yoga means to find out the antaryāmī, Paramātmā, within the core of the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). This information we get from the śāstra, that God is also situated within the core of the heart of every living entity. Sarva-bhūtānām. It is not that God is sitting in the core of the heart of the human being and not in the core of the heart of the dogs. He is there also. But the difference is that the dog cannot find out; man can find out. Therefore he is educated, taught about the yoga system, so that constantly he can meditate upon antaryāmī, viṣṇu-mūrti. Perhaps you have seen the picture. We have got that picture. But that is the purpose of yoga—not to make the body strong or the mind very powerful. That is automatically done. Aiye. It does not require separate attempt. Just like if you get one thousand of rupees, ten rupees is already there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ (BG 6.22). If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you get all perfection. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām (BG 7.16). Four kinds of men, catur-vidhā, sukṛtinaḥ. If there is piety on the background, not the rascals or sinful man. Therefore śāstra always recommends to be pious, because a pious man has got the future chance of understanding God.

Indian man (1): Maharaj ji farmate hain ki char tarah ke aadmi jo Gita me likhe hain arth, artharti, jignyasu,mokshabhi, wo aise log hote hain shuddh hrday wale, pavitra hrday wale. to jab ka pavtira hrday hota hai to usko avsar mil sakta hai iswar ki prarthana karne ki aur usme paap hai hi nahi to wo shuddh, pavitra hone chahiye, aisa hai. (Mahārāja states that the four kinds of people who are mentioned in the Gita are artha, artharti, jignyasu, mokshabhi—they are people with pure hearts, clean hearts. So when the heart is cleaned then he gets the chance to pray or worship the Lord and there is no sin involved in that. So they must be pure hearted and one with a clean heart, that is it.)

Prabhupāda: Ye tirth sthana, (This pilgrimage place,) this is recommended. The general public is recommended to go to the tīrtha-sthāna so that he may have some spiritual atmosphere, saintly person. If somebody thinks that tīrtha-sthāna means—just like this Hrishikesh—to take bath in the Ganges and go away, that is also good, but that is not the purpose. Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile. In every pilgrim . . . pilgrimage, there is Gaṅgā, there is Yamunā. At least in India we have got so many holy places on the bank of the pious rivers. But if we take simply the advantage of the pious river, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile, but we don't care for the persons who are living there—very experienced, spiritually advanced persons—then we remain animals. So "We have gone to such holy place. I have taken bath in the Ganges and Yamunā. Bās. My business is finished." Then go to the shop, purchase some plate, toys, go back home. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Indian man (1): Maharaj kehte hain ki Rshikesh, Haridwar, aur kai acchi jagah jaye jahan gangaji hain, yamunaji hain bahut acchi baat hai. lekin us sthan me kewal pani jan karke snan karne se kam nahi chalta. Vahan jo anubhavi buzurg log hain, so sant-mahatma acche hain, unse sangat karen, unse siksha le le, unse baat karen-sune, usse jo chitt ki shanti hoti hai usse labh bhi hai. kewal snan karne se kaam nahi chalega. aur shraddha honi chahiye. Sadhu-sant ke mukh se nikale hue shabdo ko sunana, unse grahan karna shiksha. (Mahārāja is saying that Rishikesh, Haridwar and many other religious places are there. You must go to these places where the Ganges flows, Yamuna flows—then it is very good. But don't consider the rivers as only ordinary water and take bath in them, this will not work. The experienced aged people are there, and the saints and scholars are good. Associate with them, take knowledge from them, speak to them, listen to them and the peace of the conscience is very beneficial. Just by bathing it will not work and you must have faith. Listen to the words coming from the mouths of saints and scholars, assimilate knowledge from them.)

Prabhupāda: Janeṣu abhijñeṣu. Sādhu means one who is in the knowledge. Otherwise anyone can become a sādhu by changing the dress.

Indian man: Khali kapade pehnene se sadhu nahi ho jate. gyan jisko prapt hai wo sadhu hai. unki sangat karne se kuch prapti hoti hai. varna sadhu to koi bhi bana lega. (Just by wearing the dress of a saint one does not become a saint. One who has attained spiritual knowledge is a saint. If we associate with him then we can benefit. Otherwise anyone can become a saint.)

Prabhupāda: A sādhu . . . the description of sādhu is given in the śāstra, titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ . . . Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ . . . (SB 3.25.21).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Suhṛdaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. And before that, there is . . . suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ. These are the description of sādhu. Sādhu titikṣavaḥ: very tolerant. For preaching work they have to meet so many obstacles, and still, they go on, titikṣavaḥ. Titikṣā is the qualification of brāhmaṇa. Śamo damas titikṣā. So a sādhu . . . titikṣavaḥ. He has to meet so many obstacles. Just see this judgment. We have to meet so many obstacles. But we cannot give up. Despite all obstacles, we have to go on. So titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ, suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. A sādhu is not a friend of a particular community, person or religion. No.

Indian man (1): Sarva-bhūtānām.

Prabhupāda: "I am sādhu. I am the leader of the, this society. And the animal-killing is going on. I don't care for it." Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. So titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva . . . these are the qualities. And ultimately, summary, sādhu is spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself, that bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30): "One who has no other business than to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is sādhu." "Well, he is a foreigner. He is not brāhmaṇa. He is accustomed to so many habits." Sādhu is always in good habit. But due to past practice, sometimes we may see some discrepancy. You can find out some fault. But Kṛṣṇa says that, "Never mind there is some fault. Still, he is sādhu." "Why?" Now, bhajate mām ananya-bhāk: "He has taken Me as everything." So sādhu descriptions are there. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇaḥ. A sādhu means ultimately bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. So tīrtha-sthāna, one should try to associate with sādhus. This is the purpose to go to the tīrtha-sthāna. Otherwise, if you simply go to the tīrtha-sthāna and take bath in the Ganges and Yamunā, and if you think, "My business is finished . . ." Everywhere, all tīrtha-sthāna . . . in Gayā—actually, begins from Gayā—there is Phalgu River. Then Benares, there is Ganges. Then there is Prayāga. There is also Ganges, Yamunā. Then go to Mathurā, Vṛndāvana. Everywhere there is the sacred river. So if we simply think that going to the holy place and taking bath . . . in Kali-yuga it is general hobby. Dūre parjakanam tīrtham. In Calcutta there is Ganges, but . . .

Indian man (1): They will come here.

Prabhupāda: They will come here.

Indian man (1): Dūre.

Prabhupāda: Dūre parjakanam tīrtham. If gaṅgā-jala is pure, it is pure here and there also. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tīrtha-yātrā pariśrama, kevala manera bhrama: "It is simply satisfying the mind." Otherwise, wherever there is Ganges, there is Yamunā, that is sacred place. Delhi also, sacred place; there is Gaṅgā. Anyway, so, we should take advantage of the knowledge of sādhu. And that is real progress in life.

So catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Four kinds of men, they come to God, Kṛṣṇa. God means Kṛṣṇa, not ordinary . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu said:

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

(CC Madhya 19.151)

Kṛṣṇa also says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). To approach Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. After many, many births . . . we are rotating . . . (break) . . . superintendent of this egglike aṇḍa, universe. It is called brahmāṇḍa. And there are innumerable planets. That we can see. So we are wandering in all these places, sometimes down, sometimes up, sometimes in the middle, according to our karma, in different species of life, in different planets, in different position. So we are rotating. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Out of these innumerable living entities who are entrapped with this brahmāṇḍa and janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi . . . (BG 13.9)." Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Life after life, life after life, they are. That we do not know. This is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. You die, accept another body, another place, another situation, another position. This is going on. Brahmāṇḍa-bhramaṇa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "In this way, rotating, and in course of our rotation, if we are fortunate enough, then we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite. (aside) Why you are closing that? Eh? Open it.

Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān. So to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is meant for persons who are very, very fortunate, kona bhāgyavān. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). When one is very much eager, serious that, "I want to see God . . ." Nobody's serious. But if one becomes serious, then Kṛṣṇa gives him chance. He sends him to the proper guru. Kṛṣṇa is there within the core of heart of everyone, and if somebody is . . . (aside) Let him come. What he is doing? He is not a proper man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh? So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by the order, this is not meant for an ordinary person. Bhāgyavān, very fortunate. Those who are . . . those who are unfortunate, they do not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They manufacture some vague idea. Kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām. Find out this verse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twelfth chapter.

Pradyumna:

kleso 'dhikataras teṣām

avyaktāsakta-cetasām

avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ

dehavadbhir avāpyate

(BG 12.5)

"For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied."

Prabhupāda: Artificial. Cyavanti te. There is one verse: they'll fall down. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord engaged in devotional service to the Lord are called bhakta-yogīs. Now, here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jñāna-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the same goal, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul. The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore the bhakti-yogī accepts the Deity of Kṛṣṇa as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguṇa or nirguṇa, of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguṇa worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord. A crude example may be given here. We may find some mailboxes on the street, and if we post our letters in those boxes, they will naturally will go to their destination without difficulty. But any old box or an imitation which we may find somewhere, which is not authorized by the post office, will not do the work. Similarly, God has an authorized representation in the Deity form, which is called arcā-vigraha. This arcā-vigraha is an incarnation of the Supreme Lord. God will accept service through that form. The Lord is omnipotent and all-powerful. Therefore, by His incarnation as arcā-vigraha, He can accept the services of the devotee just to make it convenient for the man in conditioned life.

So for a devotee, there is no difficulty in approaching the Supreme immediately and directly, but for those who are following the impersonal way to spiritual realization, the path is difficult. They have to understand the unmanifested representation of the Supreme through such Vedic literatures as the Upaniṣads, and they have to learn the language, understand the nonperceptual feelings, and they have to realize all these processes . . ."

Prabhupāda: Just like in the Upaniṣads it is said, paśyaty acakṣuḥ (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 3.18): "He sees, but He has no eyes." So what is that? How we can think of one is seeing without eye? Aiye. There are so many. Śṛṇoty akarṇaḥ: "He has no ears . . ." So both things are there. When it is said, paśyaty acakṣuḥ . . . mean cakṣuḥ, eyes, as soon as we think of eyes, we think of our eyes, own eyes. And therefore it is forbidden, "Not like your eyes." Paśyati. He can see everywhere. Therefore we have to discuss śāstra. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti (BS 5.32). The aṅga, the different parts of the body of Kṛṣṇa, has got all the qualities of other aṅga. Just like we can see with eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can speak also with eyes. He can eat also with eyes. That is difference. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. So paśyaty acakṣuḥ means He has different type of eyes, not like our eyes. When there is nirākāra . . . nirākāra means He hasn't got a ākāra, a form, like ours. That is nirākāra. But He has His form. And Kṛṣṇa says . . . so dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13): "Within this body, the owner of the body is there." But if the owner of the body has no form, how the material form has come into existence? Just like this shirt has got hand. Because I am the owner of the shirt—I have got hand—therefore the shirt has got also hand. I have got my leg, therefore the pant has got leg. If you say: "The pant has got leg, the shirt has got hand, but the owner of the shirt has no leg, no . . ." is it possible? And this external body described as dress . . . vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Vāsa, dress. Dress cannot show any hand and leg unless the man who is dressed, he has got his hand and leg. So how He is nirākāra? Aap ko . . . (You . . .)

Indian man (1): Ākāra only.

Prabhupāda: If the dress has got hand and leg, then the person who is putting on the dress, he must have hand and leg. So this is the conclusion. When in the śāstra it is said that, "God has no leg, no hand," that . . . in the Upaniṣad it said that, "He has no leg, but He can walk swifter than anyone." So that means He has got a different type of leg. And that is summarized, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (BS 5.1). His vigraha, His form, is not material form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri . . . (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being, the foolish mūḍha—mūḍha means rascal—rascal thinks that, "He is also one of us." But Kṛṣṇa says: "No, no," sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6), "I come here in My original, spiritual form." Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. So these are to be understood.

So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Because they cannot understand—they cannot make distinction what is spiritual, what is material—therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. First of all one has to understand what is material, what is spiritual. So unless one comes to the spiritual understanding, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Siddhaye means "for spiritual understanding." And yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). So yatatām api siddhānām. Even the jñānīs, they are supposed to be siddha, and they also miss the point, that "The Supreme has no material body, so only negation." No. There is positive body. Therefore bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). Although he has knowledge, still, his knowledge is not purified. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. And because they cannot capture the real form of the Lord, they again fall down in this material world. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Falsely such persons think that, "Now I have become liberated" without approaching the form of the Lord. Ye 'nye 'ravinda . . . aravindākṣa: "One who has got lotus eyes." Ye 'nye . . . ye anye aravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ: "Thinks of himself as he has become liberated." He may be liberated from material concept of life, but aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, because he could not understand, take, what is the form of the Lord, the result is āruhya kṛcchreṇa, with great austerity, he can come to the platform of nirguṇa Brahman, Parambrahman. But because naturally he is seeking after the reality . . . he does not get the reality, only eternity. Reality is bliss, sac-cid-ānanda. That ānanda he does not get.

Indian man (1): He gets only sat.

Prabhupāda: Partial. So partial understanding will not satisfy because he is himself the same quality, sac-cid-ānanda. He's seeking after ānanda. If he does not get ānanda, if he cannot dance with Kṛṣṇa, then he falls down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Again material dancing; again hospital, schools. Big, big sannyāsīs could not get any relish. Then chanda uthao aur . . . (Then collect donation and . . .) The brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. If it is mithyā, why you are after the school? Patanty adhaḥ. Therefore unless one is very pious, sukṛti, they cannot stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Therefore piety, pious activities, is recommended in the śāstras. And so far devotees are concerned, especially in this age, directly, directly engage him in bhakti-yoga, and everything will be all right.

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

(SB 6.1.15)

The general process is tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena, satya-śaucābhyāṁ tyāgena, satya-śaucam, śamena damena . . . (SB 6.1.13). There are different stages. But kecit kevalayā bhaktyā, simply by bhakti, kevalayā bhaktyā, vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ. They can wash. Kārtsnyena aghaṁ dhunvanti. All sinful reaction of life becomes washed. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena. How it is possible? Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Just like there is wash of mist, sun, as soon as the sun rises. So let Kṛṣṇa rise up. Therefore our this motto is in the English Back to Godhead, "Kṛṣṇa is light . . ."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa is light . . ." "Godhead is light. Nescience is darkness. Where there is Godhead, there is no nescience."

Prabhupāda: So this is direct process. Because Kali-yuga, they cannot actually undergo severe austerities, penances, vairāgya. Little difficult. Not difficult—very difficult. But that is a special concession for this age. Because we are very fallen, we cannot undergo severe austerities, penances, yamena niyamena vā, brahmacarya. Very, very difficult. So Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, recommends that, "Kali-yuga is full of faults." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājan: "It is a ocean of faults. But there is one great opportunity." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Specially for this age. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ param (SB 12.3.51): "Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa he can become liberated and go back to home, back to God . . ."

Indian man (1): Maharaj batate hain ki kaliyug me ab ye doshon ka bhandar hai, sagar hai. To isme apne se yog, tap ye sab hota nahi hai, dhyan vyan nahi, to kya karna chahiye. Bhagvan, ek hi hain, krishna, wo bhagavan hain, unka kirtan karte rehna chahiye. aur wo sakar hain. Unko nirakar manne ki zaroorat nahi hai . . . Maharaj ji kehte hain ki wo bhagvan ka ek prakar ka pratinidhi hai. aisa nahi samajhna chahiye ki ye . . . hai. Wo bhi bhagvan hai. To unki seva karne se wo hi phal milta hai jo bhagvan ke seva karne se milta hai. To bhagvan ka kirtan karte rehna chahiye. (Mahārāja says that in this kaliyuga people are full of defects, ocean of defects. So in this age one cannot perform austerities, penance or meditation—so what should one do? God, He is one, Kṛṣṇa, He is God—we should chant His glories. And He has form. There is no need to understand him as formless. Mahārāja says that he is a type of representative of the Lord. One must think that this is a stone, it is also God. So by doing service to it, we will get the same benefit as when we get by doing service to God. So we must always sing the glories of the Lord, perform kirtana.)

Prabhupāda: What is time now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten after six, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Boliye aur koi prashn hai. (If there are any questions, you can ask.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, did you want him to translate. I mean, tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: Hindi. Hindi you have made?

Indian man (1): I have read it and translated two or three pages, but I don't know whether it will get approval. That's my difficulty.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Approval . . . you are a lawyer. You do it. Not that every common man can understand. Still, whatever you have done, you can read something. (end)