720215 - Conversation - Madras

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720215R1-MADRAS - February 15, 1972 - 19:28 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (reading) ". . . (indistinct) . . . from Him, his mind becomes totally associated with Him. His Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda in his discourse at the . . . (indistinct) . . . Sunday, said there was no rigid rules and regulations for chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, nor does it require formal education. While uttering the name of Śrī Kṛṣṇa one should focus the mind on the image and form of the Lord, His auspicious activities, His delightful sport, and His role as Gītā-ācārya."

"Lord Caitanya, during His visit to a temple in South India, found a man scanning the pages of the Bhagavad-gītā without seeming to read the verses, and inquiring, the same found that the person was illiterate, and yet he was turning the pages of the Gītā at the request of his master, because as he did so, he had a vision of Śrī Kṛṣṇa expounding spiritual knowledge to Arjuna on the Kurukṣetra battlefield. Thereupon Caitanya embraced him in all admiration for his devotion, sincere faith and guidance of the spiritual master as necessary for God realization." They give very nice article. You have seen it?

Śyāmasundara: No. (pause) He doesn't give the receipt number. He says . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . all the educated men. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the, who is called, elite society appreciate, then ordinary people will always appreciate. Before my Guru Maharaja, and Bhaktisiddhānta's . . . Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Lord Caitanya's cult was considered by the higher class as it is the business of the low-class men. Even Vivekananda remarked that, "It is the religion of sex." Because they saw that the sahajiyās, they discussed this rāsa-līlā and have illicit connection with woman. So therefore they took it as the religion of sex. Vivekananda. But now . . .

Guest: (indistinct) . . . the bhakti marg was right now considered as the job of the elders.

Prabhupāda: These were the remark. And now we have to establish this, that this is the only way to reach God. You have to become scholar, philosopher, worker, practical behavior. And that is the fact. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)? You have to prove it. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ (SB 1.1.2): "Except surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, anything, that is simply cheating," cheating, kaitavaḥ, cheating religion. This is challenged by God, cheating religion. We have to save people from the cheating type of religion, cheating type of guru, cheating type of dharma. It is so important movement. So this is very good time, this high-court judges. And yesterday also, I blessed before them what, vicāra. You marked?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra (CC Adi 8.1). Vicāra means statement. "Just try to understand the mercy of Lord Caitanya, and give your judgement." This is not a sentimental, as people take it as a sentimental. No. Most scientific, logical. So how they like that slides?

Girirāja: Very much. I think we may have a brief slide show tonight also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got all the slides?

Girirāja: We have many slides of paintings, of different activities . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . have no attachment. These are all nonsense. It cannot be poisoned. A living being, to become desireless, how you can? I am living. I am not a dead body. Desire should be to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Attachment should be for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You have to change. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have now attachment for sense gratification, desire for sense gratification. This has to be changed. Purification of desire, purification of attachment. Tat paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Eyes, because it is diseased, should not be plucked out. This is nonsense. Cure the eyes of the disease, then you will see things right.

The Māyāvādī philosophy is pluck out the eyes. Buddha philosophy is make it zero. That is also same thing, plucking out. Our philosophy is, "No. Cure it." That is the difference. It is very simple. Which one is better, the eyes? Just like a man is suffering from disease, fever, and doctor gives him medicine—he dies. Then the patient's guardian says, "Sir, he is dead now. You have given some medicine, he is dead." "That's all right, fever is gone. Fever is gone. Never mind he is dead." (laughter)

(laughs) These rascal philosophy statement is like that. Make zero. Make imperson. Then the difficulties of personality . . . because they have got very bad experience of personality here. He had to become minister, he has become king and this and that, householder, all botheration. So make imperson. Let go. That's all. Negation. Personality is giving us trouble, so make imperson. God must be imperson, because as soon as we have person, there is trouble. They have got experience. But the Buddha's philosophy is there and as soon as they . . . (indistinct) . . . make it zero, then there is no pains and pleasure. This body, because Buddha philosophy does not give any idea of soul—bodily concept. So body is combination of matter, so dismantle this combination.

Just like you have got a skyscraper building, so you have to pay tax. Break it, make it zero, so no tax. This is philosophy. Do you follow it? You have got a very big building, so you have to pay tax. To save tax, break the building. No more taxes. No more pains and pleasure. No more anxiety. That is Buddha philosophy. That means these philosophers are called fools and rascal, less intelligent.

Would you like this advice, that you have got a big building, just like in London there is a big building, and he has got a policy anyway that he does not allow any tenant? Largest building in London—to save tax. But his point is different. In Bengali there is adage that, corer upar rag kore, ghure bhat khao, (angered at the thief, turn around and eat rice)—that a man's utensils were stolen by a thief, so he became very angry, that thief has taken all my utensil. All right, I shall not purchase utensil. I shall take food on the floor. I shall take food on the floor. No more utensils. I shall not keep plates and utensil any more. I shall take food on the floor." This is philosophy. (break)

We don't believe in so-called nonviolence, non attachment, zero. No. We believe in everything, if there is required violence, fight, "Yes, come on." Yes. Arjuna. No consideration, "The other side my grandfather, my father, or this or that. Kṛṣṇa wants this fight. Kill them all." . . . (indistinct) . . . Gopīs, at dead of night they went with Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa wants us. Oh, we don't care for all this social convention. Kick out. So let's go" (phone ringing) Prahlāda Mahārāja, Nṛsiṁha-deva killing his father, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is taking pleasure in killing my father. That's all right. (laughter) That I don't protest." He could have said, "My dear Lord, please do not kill my father." Immediately he would have been saved. . . . (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: Could be Puri Maharaja.

Prabhupāda: Go, go, go. So that is our point. Bali Mahārāja, he saw that his so-called Śukrācārya, caste goswāmī, is checking him to offer anything to Vāmanadev, "Oh, I don't like you. I reject you. I don't want a spiritual master like you, who is checking me for offering to Kṛṣṇa." This is a mahājana. Prahlāda Mahārāja became mahājana. Gopīs became the topmost devotee. Why? For Kṛṣṇa. They neglected any social convention, this, that. "No. Kṛṣṇa must be satisfied." That is the most . . . that is Kṛṣṇa conscious. (break)

(telephone conversation)

Hello. Who is there? Puri Mahārāja? Ah, daṇḍavats, daṇḍavats. Ta bhalo achen to? Cithi pan ni sejonyeito telegram dilam. Ta amra ta . . . ah . . . krpay hocche sob, ar apnake Mayapure yete hobe amar sange. Hya. Ar ye amader Nityananda prabhu, apni, apnar sob . . . huh? Hya . . . besh. (I hope you are doing well. Because you haven't received the letter, that's why again I sent a telegram. We . . . huh . . . everything is happening by mercy . . . and you have to go to Mayapur with me. Yes. Our Nityananda prabhu and you, all your . . . what? Hah . . . as you say.) (break)

Śyāmasundara: So we, we should get tickets today . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately.

Śyāmasundara: . . . for leaving on . . .

Prabhupāda: On seventeenth.

Śyāmasundara: . . . seventeenth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Yes. We shall pay for his expenditure.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: And Nityananda?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: Did he say anything about that Nit . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah, Nityananda is coming today.

Śyāmasundara: Good.

Prabhupāda: I have asked . . . (indistinct) . . . he should also go. So now on seventeenth we must start.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Make arrangements like that.

Śyāmasundara: Some party can go tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: Rest on seventeenth. And we will see if there is airline connection.

Prabhupāda: If airline is not possible, maybe will go by train or . . . (break) . . . preach like this.

Mālatī: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughing)

Mālatī: Jaya. It was very good meeting.

Prabhupāda: That for the fifty years they are here, nobody can find. Gaudīya Maṭha is known as Indian temple. That's all.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: No preaching.

Śyāmasundara: He's making publicity up there?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He can take all these placards. Yes. We have got remaining placards?

Śyāmasundara: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: Only is, point is, "Make it zero. And so long you are living, enjoy as you like, because afterwards you are going to be zero. There is no responsibility. So you gratify your senses to the fullest extent."

That's all. Just like—I do not know—I have never hanged—but anyone who is going to be hanged, he is offered that, "Whatever you want, you can enjoy." Is that . . .

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . fact?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So their philosophy, "You are going to be hanged. Now you can enjoy whatever you like." So this philosophy then. Because the Māyāvādī philosophy is impersonal, zero, therefore people don't care for sin. "Enjoy life. You shall finish."

Gurudas: There's the story of a man who is being hanged, and they said: "You can have whatever you want." So he said: "Whatever I want?" So they said: "Yes." So he says: "I want ten more years life."

Prabhupāda: We don't say whatever you want. You enjoy. Gratify your senses as much as you like.

Mālatī: Prabhupāda? What class of impersonalists are worshiping the Puruṣa-sūkta?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Mālatī: What class of impersonalists are worshiping the universal form?

Prabhupāda: Well, universal form is not impersonal. That is personal. That is also manifestation of Kṛṣṇa.

Mālatī: But you say that . . . in one of your purports you are saying that the impersonalists are worshiping the universal form.

Prabhupāda: They are advised.

Śyāmasundara: Ah, advised to worship.

Mālatī: They are advised to worship.

Prabhupāda: Nobody is advised to . . . there is no worship for impersonalists. There is no . . .

Mālatī: Oh. (pause) (end)