Philosophy Discussion on Martin Heidegger

HEIDEGGER.SYA

Śyāmasundara: So (indistinct) has these four qualities, or characteristics. A (indistinct), of understanding that I am dying, and living with that understanding, understanding that I am existing, and having different moods.

Prabhupāda: So I am existing till my death. Is it not?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And when death takes place, I am finished.

Śyāmasundara: Well, that's the common understanding in most...

Prabhupāda: No. He is understanding that "I am existing up to the point of death. After death I am not existing." Is it not? They are rascals.

Śyāmasundara: But later we find that he does believe in some kind of immortality, but he is talking about the (indistinct), or the (indistinct) of individuals that normally, on a normal level, they believe that the body will end or it will die at a certain time, so that they act in such a way with that in mind. And he calls that, that knowledge that I will die some day, that this creates anxiety or dread in the living entity.

Prabhupāda: So this is animal, animals' philosophy, that "I shall die." Then that very attachment, he is imperfect, that he dies. We do not agree that we will die. Actually that's not a fact, because in my life I can understand that I have existed as a child. So the body of child is not there, but still I am existing. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I'll exist. So I exist eternally. I shall not die. That is the philosophy.

Śyāmasundara: He says that the essence of the human being is in his existence. That is that there are numerous kinds of...

Prabhupāda: His idea of existence is: from birth to death. Not beyond death. He did not exist before his birth, and he'll not exist after his death. So his existence means from the point of birth up to the point of death. So that is not very good philosophy.

Śyāmasundara: He says that because... A human being has numerous possibilities open to choose from-different kinds of being for himself. He can choose different kinds of being for himself.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Śyāmasundara: The possibilities of becoming this or that are his. He can choose. He can elect what he wants to be in the future.

Prabhupāda: That is also not proof. As soon as he gets a body, his thing is settled up. Just like you have got this body—white body. You cannot become black body. Or a man who has got black body, he cannot become white man. This is wrong philosophy. How you can settle up? Because he is considering the of body, he is considering the existence means the manufacture of the body from the womb of mother up to the destruction of the body. So this body, as it is made, there are different types of body. So that cannot be changed.

Śyāmasundara: What about if someone can choose to become a doctor or a lawyer or a physician or anything like that.

Prabhupāda: That is quality; that is not the body.

Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't say body, he says that he can choose his different kinds of being, how he will be, whether he will be a lawyer or a doctor, like that. He can be good, he can be bad...

Prabhupāda: First thing is that if he has no clear idea of existence, then what he can be, that will depend on the idea of existence. So as he is thinking of to become doctor or lawyer and teacher, similarly he should know that he eternally exists, then he can also make a program what he can become next time.

Śyāmasundara: He says that that is the essence of existence, that we can become something which we choose, of our own choosing.

Prabhupāda: That means he is talking of this existence. According to him, the existence finishes after death. That is poor fund of knowledge.

Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't make that judgment. He simply says that the living entities are motivated by that feeling, that they will die. He doesn't say whether there is life or death.

Prabhupāda: That means he has no knowledge. We say that he does not die, he exists eternally. That is our philosophy.

Śyāmasundara: He doesn't make a judgment if there is life after death or not, he's simply like a psychologist examines what motivates people's behavior or...

Prabhupāda: No. If you do not know whether he exist in the future or not... Just like a child, if he knows that "I shall exist as an old man," then there is question of what I shall become. If he does not know whether he'll exist or not, then what is the idea of becoming a teacher, or I can become (indistinct). First of all you should know that I exist only for this duration of life or I exist forever. That is real philosophy. Real philosophy is, "I exist forever." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like I existed as a small baby, I existed as a boy, I existed as a young man. I remember all those existences, although the body is finished. Therefore the conclusion is that I shall exist when this body is finished. That is real knowledge. And it is common sense. If I existed as this child, I existed as a baby, I existed as a boy, I existed as a young man, and I am existing as old man, so why not I shall exist when this body is finished? In this life I experience so many bodies, they have left, they are no longer existing, but I see that I am existing; therefore why shall I not see that I will exist after the death. What do you think?

Devotee: What do I think?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are understanding what I am speaking?

Devotee: Hm. Actually I am sort of in awe of (indistinct), but I enjoy listening. (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he was being in awe of being with you, but he wasn't listening to the words.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. All right. Then, this is the idea of existence. Therefore the philosophy is that I shall not be very much interested what I am going to become in this life. My philosophy should be that as I am eternally existing, what is my eternal occupation. That is philosophy.

Śyāmasundara: But he is talking about..., a man defines himself in this world without any knowledge, previous knowledge, and he has... All his knowledge is that he has observed that other living bodies die, or living entities die, so he has the anxiety...

Prabhupāda: No. That knowledge is not perfect. Everyone has knowledge that I existed as like this. Then he becomes... It is common sense. So how he existed as a child, as a baby, as a young man, everyone can see. Any old man can see. So it does not require any high knowledge.

Śyāmasundara: He is more or less describing the position of most of the living material entities, that this is the knowledge they operate on, that they will die. That even though they don't die, but at least most people believe that they will die, so they operate with this anxiety and this dread.

Prabhupāda: So everyone is afraid of death. That animal is also afraid of death. Then? What is the special philosophy? This is animal, also they think, "I will die," he's afraid.

Śyāmasundara: He says that there are numerous possibilities to choose from, to become what we like. There are unlimited possibilities. We can become this or that. So that we can choose our essence, that the essence of a man is in his own hands. He can choose his own essence, what he wants to be.

Prabhupāda: That we are also stating, that essence is that "I will exist in future." Is it not? So if one knows that "I will exist even after destruction of this body," then he will think of essence differently.

Śyāmasundara: Ah.

Prabhupāda: That is knowledge. But if we simply take account, just like "I shall go from this room to that room, no more. I have no knowledge," that is not perfect knowledge.

Śyāmasundara: He says that the world is not a container with a men inside of it, but that the men and the world are not separate. They are not separate. The world and the living entities are not separate. They are bound up together so that man and world are one encompassing...

Prabhupāda: What is the position of man in relationship with the world?

Śyāmasundara: That the world is the sphere of human concern. That a man finds himself in the world, so that he must become concerned with it.

Prabhupāda: Mm?

Śyāmasundara: That it is not that the world and the men are separated.

Devotee: Different.

Śyāmasundara: But that we are bound up together by this world's concern or care. Because a man is in the world, he must care for it, he must have concern for it.

Prabhupāda: Mm. He must concern first.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. This is the relationship, care, between man and the world. The man must care for the world.

Prabhupāda: Concern, there are different kinds of concern. Just like... Again, concerning that what is actually my relationship with the world. So everyone's relationship is that he wants to enjoy this world. Is it not?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Everyone wants. Everyone is struggling hard to get a better position in this world. That means to enjoy this world. So this is going on in the animal kingdom also. The animal kingdom also. Just like a dog, if he finds another dog coming, or another (indistinct), he will begin barking. So the real concern is just like we have created nationalism that "Nobody may come in my place." So this kind of mentality is there in the animal also. So human body should be concerned like that, like animal. He thinks like that.

Śyāmasundara: No, he's... In the beginning he is simple analyzing the relationship, basic relationship...

Prabhupāda: Basic relationship is that I want to enjoy this world. Does he agree to this point or not? I want to enjoy this world to the best of my capacity. That is my concern. Everyone is struggling for that.

Śyāmasundara: He simply says that between (indistinct), or being there, and the things of the world there is a relationship of care or concern, that's all. He doesn't say whether it's...

Prabhupāda: That is a concern, that I want to enjoy this world; others may not interrupt. That is my concern. I am living in this world, I am living in this apartment, I am asking my assistant, "Let not others come here, disturb me." So that is my concern. Just like in your country, they keep dogs: "Beware of dog," "Please do not come here." Eh? So this is my concern. I want to enjoy this world to the best of my capacity and others may not disturb me. This is plain and simple concern. What, beyond this, what is the concern? That is going on as nationalism. That is going on as individualism. That is going on as communityism, so many things.

Śyāmasundara: I guess if you look at it, every object that we relate with, we are concerned about it or for it only because it gives us or supplies us our pleasure.

Prabhupāda: That is my concern. I am keeping my things in the closet, locked. Why? (So that) my things may not be taken by somebody. This is real concern. I am keeping gun, (so) one may not hurt me, or may not attack me. That is called self-preservation. That is the concern. Self-preservation is the first law of nature. So that is in the animal kingdom. Everyone is (indistinct). Defence, what you call defence, that we are defying, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Our concern are divided into four parts. My first concern is where shall I eat, how shall I eat. And the next concern is where shall I sleep. And next the concern is how shall I enjoy my senses, who will be my partner. And next concern is how shall I live, how shall I defend. These are the concerns. And these concerns are there in the animals. So how human beings becomes better than animals? If the human being has got the same concern as the animals, then how the human being is better than the animals? What is that concern?

Śyāmasundara: He said that...

Prabhupāda: I'll give you just time to point out how that philosophers are less intelligent.

Śyāmasundara: He actually tries to answer those questions later, but in the beginning he comes to the same point, that what should we be concerned with here are the..., the concerns that he has just described, that just existing. Because in the end, even we are concerned with these things, still they disappear when we die, so there is really no basis for them. They are based on what he calls "nothingness"—eating, sleeping, mating, defending...

Prabhupāda: But if you don't eat, will you exist? Why nothingness? This is another rascal. (laughter)

Śyāmasundara: Because they are caused by anxiety.

Prabhupāda: This anxiety must be there. You must arrange for eating. We are speaking on the point of concern.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what can I eat, that's a concern.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. If I do not eat, there's always some anxiety. If there's no food...

Prabhupāda: No. If I do not (indistinct), there must be eating. There must be eating.

Śyāmasundara: So if I feel hungry, I become full of anxiety, "Where is food? Where is food?" He says that this anxiety...

Prabhupāda: Not only that; before becoming hungry, I will acquire food. Just like we go in the market and purchase food. At that time I am not hungry, but I know I shall be hungry, I shall have to eat; therefore we shall have to prepare foodstuffs before I become hungry. That is concern. When I am purchasing foodstuff, I am not hungry actually, but still I know that I shall become hungry in the after..., lunch time, so I must prepare for. That is our concern. I am arranging for an apartment, not that at that time I am feeling sleepy, but I know that I will have to sleep at night. That's why I must have a place. This is my concern.

Śyāmasundara: He calls this concern is the symptoms of..., characteristics of existence, and he says that this existence has priority...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we also say. Because I want to exist, therefore my concern means the struggle for existence. I am struggling, how to exist.

Śyāmasundara: But he says that this existence has priority over the essence. In other words, only when we get beyond...

Prabhupāda: What is that essence?

Śyāmasundara: This is what the man, a man has to choose-find out his essence. But first there is existence, before that search...

Prabhupāda: But the existence, therefore we say that your real problem is unless you know what is your position, then there cannot be any tangible program. If I know that I exist eternally, then my real concern should be how to check all these concerns so that I may live eternally without any concern. My question will be: "I am existing eternally. Why there should be concerns?" I must live and exist eternally without any concern. Why there have to be so many concerns? I do not want. Suppose the death. I know I shall death, but I do not know; I do not want to die. That is my concern. That my concern should be how I can live without death. That is real intelligent concern. There is death. I know I will die, but I do not wish to die. That is also fact. Suppose you are... If I take a sword and want to kill you, you know that you will die, why don't you accept, "All right, kill me. I'll have to die, so kill me"? Why you protest? Why you protest? Why you fly away? Why you (indistinct) defend? You know you shall die. So die now. (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: Because he wants to enjoy...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I do not want to die. That is the philosophy. Death is there. (air raid siren in background) Just like here is the siren, and you are (indistinct) die, but why he's defending? Why this siren is there, "Now death is coming, be careful"? That means, in other words, "I do not wish to die." That is my real concern, that I do not wish to die, but death is forced upon me. Therefore my concern should be how to avoid it. That is real concern. That is real philosophy. Why you forget this psychology, that "I do not wish to die"? Somebody will... Even animals. I have seen one pig, a small pig, what is called, pig, small. So the master took (indistinct). Psychologically he understands that he is taken, now he will be killed. Just crying, "peh, peh, peh." So why? This is a pig. He doesn't want to die. So everyone does not want to die, but still he knows that he will die. Therefore the real concern should be that I do not wish to die, that death is forced upon me, and that is my real concern. That is real philosophy, whether there is possibility of. Know that. That is intelligence. That intelligence is (indistinct) there in the human form of life. Animal, they, although they know it that death is there, but I don't want to go, die, but they have no capacity to stop death. But human beings can do that.

Śyāmasundara: So Heidegger says that this (German-indistinct) or this being there, has two characteristics. First is priority of existence over essence. In other words, first I exist, and inside of this existence I can find my essence. During this existence, I can find my essence. And the second characteristic...

Prabhupāda: What is that essence?

Śyāmasundara: Well then he..., his philosophy comes to that point, what is man's essence.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Śyāmasundara: First of all he says that my existence is prior. First of all I have to exist and live, and then inside of this existence I may come to the point of discovering my essence.

Prabhupāda: But he has not discovered the essence.

Śyāmasundara: But he comes to that point.

Prabhupāda: What is that point?

Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Well, that's at the end.

Prabhupāda: End? You know. You have read it?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that essence?

Śyāmasundara: He calls it authenticity. Authenticity means when I am something of my own. Authentic means when I am authentically me, he calls it.

Prabhupāda: What is that, "authentic"? He does not explain?

Śyāmasundara: It's not explained very clearly.

Prabhupāda: But what do you understand by this authenticity?

Śyāmasundara: Well... (pause) The thing is that in the same sense that Kierkegaard is saying that man has to create... [break]

Prabhupāda: Authentic means reality. What is that? Authenticity means reality?

Śyāmasundara: It means being free from guilt, being free from anxiety, being always resolute in purpose.

Prabhupāda: So reality... I see this is reality, that I don't wish to die but there is death. Authenticity means how to live without death. That is all. Is it not?

Śyāmasundara: Yes. (pause) (indistinct) that the conclusions of the philosophy, by going through the different steps (indistinct). First of all, these two characteristics of existence, or (German-indistinct). One is that existence is prior to essence. The second is that (indistinct), or existence, is mine, that it is a personal. Everyone has the feeling that I...

Prabhupāda: I can exist. Others may not exist. Is that philosophy?

Śyāmasundara: No. That is also a person(?) outside of you, but that my existence is personal.

Prabhupāda: Does my existence, it is first; other existence is secondary? Just like (if) I eat meat. I must eat, because I must have meat, so poor animals must be killed. So his existence is this, neglected. Is that their philosophy?

Śyāmasundara: Well he doesn't say that. He just says that "I have the feeling, the unique feeling that I exist individually as a person."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. I exist individually and others may not exist. Is not that philosophy? So I must exist, others may not exist. So others also must think like that. That is animal. I am thinking that "I must exist. I don't care for you." You are thinking that you must exist, you don't care for me, so therefore there is struggle between you and me-struggle for existence. We are fighting. I am thinking I must exist, you are saying you must exist. Is it not? (pause)

Śyāmasundara: He says that man's actions or reality is the existence or his (indistinct). In other words, from the fact that I exist, I can find my..., that is my essence, that is my reality.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This should be done individually, collectively. Therefore there is group of nationality, therefore combined together should exist. The other group also, they are also thinking. So there are different parties. (indistinct) struggle, struggle for existence, survival of the fittest. If you exist killing me, then you are fit. And if I'll exist killing you, because you want to exist at my cost, I want to exist at your cost, so there is struggle. So if you can kill me, then you are fit, and if I kill you, then I am fit. Survival of the fittest.

Śyāmasundara: By this existence or (indistinct) that a man can choose himself or win himself by his own improvement, that he can realize himself. If I exist then I can realize myself, what I am, what is my essence. And there are two types of existence, he says: authentic existence and inauthentic existence. Authentic existence is what one feels when that existence is something of his own. [break] So he says there are two kinds of existence: authentic existence and inauthentic existence. So a man who is leading an authentic existence, then he is something of his own. But he is leading an inauthentic existence, then he is busy, excited, or preoccupied, what they say, when he has lost himself, when he loses himself. That is inauthentic existence. Thus authentic existence is when a man is always aware, self-aware, of his existence: "What I am doing now, what I am doing now, what am I doing now." So he says that an inauthentic existence is fallen existence, that a man falls into averageness or everydayness or what he calls publicness, where he lacks individuality and becomes the group self, and his personal decisions are not based upon a individual...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is living an inauthentic existence because... That is animal existence. He knows only the span of life from birth to death. That's all. That is inauthentic existence. When he knows that this is temporary... Just like suppose we are preacher, living in this apartment, say for a month. (indistinct). So this span of existence, one month or ten days or six months, this is inauthentic. But my preaching work, as preacher, I am (indistinct), that is my authentic existence. Is it not?

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Does he think like that?

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Because whatever you're doing, you are always aware of why I am doing it, what is it for, like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore the conclusion is that a human being should know, should distinguish what is authentic existence and what is inauthentic existence. That is human life. At least we should know it. That is the order of the Upaniṣads, that anyone who knows this, he is brāhmaṇa. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti. The dog does not know it, but a man can know this. If he knows it, then he's a brāhmaṇa.

Śyāmasundara: He says that men have the tendency to fall into this not making their own decisions. Their decisions are not based upon a personal basis but upon group decisions, and just because someone else does something, I do it.

Prabhupāda: That is authentic decision.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Authentic decision. You must make your decision; therefore there is no... In any human society there is law, there is division, there is social etiquette, social obligation, so many things. So we are not independent to decide that we have to abide by the customs and etiquette.

Śyāmasundara: So he says because someone else does something in a certain way and they get a good result, we automatically imitate.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Because we are hoping for the same result.

Prabhupāda: Just like a thief, he gets more money by stealing, but that is not allowed by the society. It is law. So that is not very good.

Śyāmasundara: No. He says that is not a good faith. But our decisions are not (indistinct) based upon..., our authentic, personal commitment, whatever that is.

Prabhupāda: Mm?

Śyāmasundara: Whatever that may be.

Prabhupāda: That he does not know, but we know. He is simply philosopher. We know that we must exist for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That we know, but he does not know.

Śyāmasundara: He is..., he is looking for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: He does not know this.

Śyāmasundara: But he does not know.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is looking. Everyone... The struggle for existence means everyone is looking for "How shall I exist forever?" But he does not know. Everyone... Nobody wants to die. Everyone wants to free himself from the clutches of death, but he does not know it.

Śyāmasundara: He wants to find the basis for individuality, strong individuality.

Prabhupāda: Individuality you may keep. It doesn't matter. Every one of us is individual. Every one of us is struggling, but we must know what for we are struggling, what is our existence. These things are required. Individuality is there. We are preaching this individualism. We do not say that impersonalism. No. So is that all right?. No. Still more.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Oh, yes. Still more. He says that a man finds himself flung into the world, and he finds that he is a fact within this world. He cannot deny that he is here. And he is subject to the resultant mood of fear or dread that comes about when he discovers that there is no escape to being here. "I am here. There is no escape." So there is immediate anxiety always within the man, that "I am here." So...

Prabhupāda: So when one is under some condition, then there is (indistinct). So therefore, this material world, every one of us are living under conditions and everyone is anxious.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. He said that the basic mood of existence is anxiety.

Prabhupāda: Just like there was a statement by Mujid Rāman that "I was put into a cell, and nobody could see me, there was no paper, I was not given paper, I did not know what is happening outside," and (indistinct) he has described. So this kind of existing under certain conditions, that conditional existence is cause of anxiety. [break] He does not want to die, and the death signal is there. The death signal is always there, but he has... Under the influence of māyā, he is thinking that "There is no danger. There is no danger." But that danger can take place any moment. And he is not making any solution. That is called māyā. He is thinking, "I am safe." What is safe? I am sitting here and talking, and immediately my heart can fail. So death can take place at any moment.

Śyāmasundara: So he says that this kind of care or concern as a result of anxiety is what prompts us toward reality. This drives us toward reality, this fear, this concern.

Prabhupāda: That is nice. The reality is... Then you have to concern... Just like when you are diseased, when you are in the trouble, some implication of legal matter, then you go to the lawyer, how to get out of it. When you are diseased, when you are troubled, you go to the physician. Similarly, if you are actually eager to get out of the anxiety, then you have to go to somebody who knows that Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "Simply by knowing Me," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti BG 4.9 . "You should simply try to understand Me." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "Anyone who knows Me, how I appear, what I do, what is My function," that means anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, "then after living in this body, he does not take birth again." And if there is no birth, there is no death, there is no disease, there is no trouble. As soon as there is birth there must be... Anyone who has taken birth, he must die. That is the law. Anywhere. Anything which is born must die, must get old, must be diseased. Anything, even you take material things—this machine—it has got a date of birth, and there will be a death when it will stop functioning. And it is getting older. That is the law. But here is Kṛṣṇa says that "You can stop death, simply by understanding Me." And if you stop birth, punar janma, then you stop other things. Because death is there, then there is birth, but if there is no birth, there is no death. You have to think like that, that these are the problems of anxiety: birth, death, old age, and disease. So here Kṛṣṇa says that you can stop your birth. Punar janma naiti: no more birth. Then I can stop all other things. Because as soon as there is birth, the other things are there. But if there is no birth, the other things are not there. That makes you anxietyless. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is required. This is the condition to solve all anxieties.

Śyāmasundara: He says this anxiety is evidence of finitude.

Prabhupāda: Mm?

Śyāmasundara: He says that anxiety is evidence of finitude, or that being finite, opposite of infinite.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: If one is finite, then there is automatically anxiety.

Prabhupāda: But the..., we want to be anxietyless. That means we are infinite, according to that philosophy.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Anxiety is there when I think that I am finite. Just like when I think that Mr. Bhatiwalla(?) is trying to get us out, then we are in anxiety. And if we know that there is no such thing, we can live here... So we want to live infinitely. When that is disturbed, there is anxiety. Therefore it appears that we are infinite. But we have been put into finite condition. That is the cause of anxiety. Now, therefore, the intelligent person should try to come to the platform of infiniteness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti BG 4.9 . There are many others... There are many devotees, just to avoid this birth, death, old age, many have attained success. These things are stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore the conclusion is it will become anxietyless to have infinite life. One must (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the conclusion. And there is no question of avoiding. If you avoid, then you..., it must be remain entangled. It is a question of must. You must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness if you actually... Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that, that when he was asked by his father what is the best thing he had learned, he said this is the best thing: that he should give up this materialistic way of life and take shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is the best thing. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehinām means those who have accepted the material body. For them. And dehinām, one who has accepted this body, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt BG 4.9 , because he is eternal, but he has accepted something which is not eternal, asat. It is limited. He is unlimited, but he is entrapped by something which is limited. Therefore, sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Just like we have got our own land in Māyāpur, so we can go and live there. There is no question of Bhatiwalla. But we won't go there. We have accepted this apartment. Therefore we must change it. Is it not? We are paying three thousand rupees—still anxiety, because we know at any moment he can be a trouble and kick out. So asad-grahāt. It is not your place you have accepted. Similarly, because you have accepted this material body, then there must be anxiety. Anyone, he may be Mr. Nixon, or he may be Mr. Ayub Khan, or a man in the street, or an ant, or Brahma, or anyone, because he has accepted asad-grahāt, this body, it is not exist; he must be in anxiety. This is knowledge. Therefore you have to learn knowledge from authorities-Prahlāda Mahārāja. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, recommends, that you should give up this, this way of life. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. This acceptance of body is just like to fall down in a dark well, blind well. So one should give it up. How give it up? How it can go? Harim āśrayeta: just take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. So that is the meaning. That means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You give up this material consciousness. Material consciousness means how I shall live, how I shall eat, how I shall sleep, how I shall enjoy my senses, how I shall defend. This is material existence. This is material existence. And spiritual existence means I take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, He is my protector, I am (indistinct). This. (Sanskrit). To have firm faith that I have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, He is giving me protection. I have no anxiety. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are giving that. So take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and become anxietyless. That's all. That is our propaganda. "Come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be free from all anxiety." That's all.

Śyāmasundara: He says that when we have thoughts and ideas, that their intention is always directed towards some object, but anxiety has no intended object. If I am anxious about something, or address something, it is not real because there is no object toward which it is directed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you have no objective, that anxiety is very troublesome. Therefore we have got also anxiety: how to become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. You are also thinking that "Whether I have chanted sixteen rounds or not? Whether I am deviating from my duties to become (indistinct)?" There is anxiety, but we have got an objective. But others, they have no objective, and full of anxiety.

Śyāmasundara: He calls that "nothingness."

Prabhupāda: That is nothingness.

Śyāmasundara: Nothingness, that anxiety and despair.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we can (indistinct).

Śyāmasundara: Because people like that, they see the world as lacking any supporting structure. There's no meaning. So then tomorrow we'll begin to see how he strives toward giving meaning to it, this nothing; how something comes out of it. [break] So we'll finish up Heidegger today and start on one other philosopher. Yesterday we were talking about Heidegger's (German-indistinct) or "being there," and he says that truth is the revealment of the understanding of being there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without being, how there can be truth? To be is truth. "I am," this is truth. I exist, that is truth. If I don't exist, then where is truth?

ātmānaṁ sarvato rakṣet
tato dharmaṁ tato dhanam
ātmānaṁ vikṛti sati

tato kutaṁ tato dharmam

Ātmā, my identity, if I protect, then I can protect my religion, I can protect my riches. And if I cannot protect myself, then where is my riches? Where is my religion? That is our Vedic understanding. So to exist, self-preservation, that is the basic principle of all truth.

Śyāmasundara: He says that the understanding of my existence, of my being here, is truth. So when this, when all the details of why I am here and what I am here for become revealed, that is truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am true, therefore why I am here, that is truth. The basic principle is "I am truth." Therefore "Why I am here?" This is intelligent question. So that... These questions was asked by Sanātana Gosvāmī to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The first question: "Actually what I am? I don't want miserable condition of life, but this world is full of miserable condition of life. So why this is?" This is actually human understanding, when one comes to this enquiry that "I do not want any miserable condition of life, but why this miserable condition of life is forced upon me?" Nobody wanted the Pakistan war, but somehow or other it was enforced. Similarly, there are so many difficulties. Śītoṣṇa sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, āgamāpāyino, they come and go, but they come and go, or they come, that's a fact. So we have to tolerate. But the question is why these miserable conditions come? Why I should tolerate? But even if I tolerate, that is not finished. So why this is the position? This "Why?" position is actually human life. That is called in the Vedānta-sūtra, brahma-jijñāsā. After trying (indistinct), when one is unable to make any solution, then the question comes "Why?" That is the beginning of human life. That is the beginning. Otherwise animal life. So animal life, this is animal is being slaughtered, but it cannot question, "Why I am being slaughtered?" That's all. "Why you are slaughtering me? I am also a living entity." It has no such (indistinct). That is animal's life. And when there is question "Why?" that is human life. "Why?" Kenopaniṣad.

Śyāmasundara: He claims that the consciousness of death makes a difference in the choices that an individual makes during his life. He says that the consciousness that this body will end, this consciousness guides him to choose in a certain way.

Prabhupāda: So what is that way? The atheists, they think that "I shall die. That will finish. So let me enjoy to the best capacity. There is no question of pāpa and puṇya. " That is atheist philosophy. "I have got this opportunity of sense enjoyment. Let me enjoy, to the best capacity, my senses." Because he has no next life. Void. Because after death everything is zero. So "Why should I care for 'This is pāpa, and this is puṇya. ' Whatever is palatable for me, I shall do that." But he has got also consciousness of death. Another, we have also got consciousness of death. So our philosophy is that before death, let us inquire in such a way that we may go back to home, back to Godhead. Both of them have got the death consciousness. The one whose spiritual is zero, he is doing all nonsense. And one who knows that spiritual is not zero—there is real substance—so "Let me prepare for death." [break] (end)