731031 - Conversation - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

731031R1-VRNDAVAN - October 31, 1973 - 27:24 Minutes

(indistinct conversation)

Prabhupāda:

ataḥśrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

(CC Madhya 17.136)

That means (indistinct) . . . that is artificial.

Indian Man: Yes, I can imagine.

Indian Man (2): So what time are you leaving tomorrow morning?

Prabhupāda: They said 6:30. (break)

Indian Man (2): Six-thirty.

Indian Man: It was very good, very good.

Prabhupāda: They are doing very nice, my quarters.

Indian Man (2): Ah.

Indian Man: Oh.

Prabhupāda: I thought that it is finished, but it is not yet finished.

Indian Man (2): Then no more touring?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian Man (2): No more touring around?

Prabhupāda: Very occasionally.

Indian Man (2): Sparingly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian Man (2): That's good. Your age and health now . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. I want to return, but one thing is that whatever I have created, it may be turned immediately. They are doing some damage.

Indian Man: Oh, really.

Indian Man (2): How to control things from here?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can control, but still my personal presence . . .

Indian Man (2): You are expert.

Prabhupāda: Just like after the departure of Guru Mahārāja, the Gauḍīya Maṭha. That . . . (indistinct) . . . fratricidal war.

Indian Man (2): Yes. You have learned from past experience in life, and you are getting on of course . . . (indistinct) . . . maybe very . . .

Prabhupāda: Māyā is very strong. Māyā is very strong. As soon as there is little discrepancy, immediately māyā catches.

Indian Man (2): Yeah.

Prabhupāda:

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

(BG 7.14)

So siddhi, I have expressed it all right?

Indian Man (2): Very good. It's very inspiring, very forceful. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Thank you.

Indian Man (2): Very forceful.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is siddhi.

Indian Man: Yet everyone is a siddha in India.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian Man: Everyone is a siddha.

Indian Man (2): And the bhaktas belong to a very low category.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Indian Man (2): They are looked down upon. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Not even the so-called scientists, philosophers. They do not know . . .

Indian Man (2): Yeah.

Prabhupāda: . . . what is perfection. How do they know what . . . (indistinct) . . . so proud of their . . . (indistinct) . . .?

Indian Man (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is real perfection of life. Kṛṣṇa has explained, janma-mṛtyu vimukhaya. They . . . (indistinct) . . . the real solution is this, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). So the materialistic scientists, philosophers, they do not know that misery can be stopped, because they have no information there is life after death.

Prabhupāda: Ap Govardhan me rehte ho? (Do you stay at Govardhan?)

Indian Man: Nahi, Vrindavan me rehta hu. (No, I stay in Vṛndāvana.)

Prabhupāda: Achha. Apka shubh nam? (Okay. What's your good name?)

Indian Man: Joshi bol . . . B. N. Joshi bolte hai, nam to Bhola Nath Joshi. (You can say Joshi . . . B.N. Joshi, my full name is Bhola Nath Joshi.)

Prabhupāda: Achha. (Okay.)

(break) So let your . . . (indistinct) . . . be out.

Indian Man (2): I'll send two more rakṣas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He'll surrender. (break)

Indian Man (2): . . . narādhamāḥ. (laughing heartily)

Prabhupāda: "You do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa; therefore you are narādhamāḥ." So he, he accepted, "Yes, I am narādhamāḥ." (laughter) After, he invited him, "Come here. We shall talk about Kṛṣṇa, and we shall prove that you are narādhamāḥ." So he avoided to see. (laughter) Now they are going to attack directly these so-called professors and philosophers and scientists. That is our next program. We may or may not be able to come out successful, but that is my next attempt. Just like we are going to present the thesis that life is from life, not from matter. In general, scientific view is that life is from matter.

Now, the Kṛṣṇa says that bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). So it has emanated from Kṛṣṇa. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante (Taittirīya Upaniṣad 3.1). This is the statement of the Vedas and . . . so how will you explain that a person can produce such huge quantity of material things, at least to make them understand how it is produced from the person? These are to be scientifically explained, wherefrom so much vast mass of water came. That you have to explain scientifically. Otherwise, how they will accept? Simply by saying: "It has come from Kṛṣṇa," they will not accept.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Yes. We have to convince them about the method of approach.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): We have to convince them that the method of . . .

Prabhupāda: If these boys, in their scientific language, they try to convince, that will be more effective.

Guest (1): More effective. Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are generally speaking that, "Water has come from Kṛṣṇa" or "The earth has come from Kṛṣṇa." That may be blind. But if it is scientifically presented how it has come from Kṛṣṇa, then they cannot refute so easily. So that I am engaging this Doctor of Chemistry, Svarūpa Dāmodara, and Rāya Rāmānanda. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's two personal associates, Svarūpa Dāmodara and Rāmānanda. (laughs)

Guest (1): Yes, and Rāya Rāmānanda. Very, very strange coincidence.

Prabhupāda: What is that verse? Idaṁ hi puṁsas śrutasya vā . . .

(aside:) You find out this verse. You have to find out the . . . no, no, from here. You have to take the index. Where is Paṇḍita? Paṇḍita is not here?

Guest (1): Pradyumnajī. Pradyumna. You call him paṇḍita? (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Rightly so.

Prabhupāda: He is American paṇḍita. Paṇḍitjī?

Śrutakīrti: He is out. Taking darśana.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's out.

Guest (1): He came to me today, asked for a copy of Harināmāmṛta-vyākaraṇa, which we have . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm. You find out the verse: idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

This is required. If you are a great scientist, you just glorify the qualities of Uttama-śloka. Then it is perfect. Simply you remain a scientist among some people, but you cannot describe about Kṛṣṇa, then your scientific knowledge . . . idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā. Tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sūktasya sviṣṭasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ. Nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅki . . . (SB 1.5.11). What is that?

Guest (1): We have to go.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Guest (1): We have to attend a Bhāgavata-paṭha, at 3.30.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Guest (1): Rādhā-Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (Okay.) So who is reading?

Guest (1): Nṛsiṁhānanda Goswami.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (Okay.) This verse is very important verse.

Guest (1): Very important.

Prabhupāda: Huh. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ (SB 1.5.22).

Gurudāsa: That volume is packed, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: All right. Nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yad avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ (SB 1.5.11). Nirūpita means it is already decided. The perfection of your education is this. What is that? Nāmāny anantasya. Anantasya, nāmāny. Yaśaḥ aṅkitāni. Yaśaḥ. That is perfection. If your scientific knowledge, philosophical knowledge, cannot establish the glories of the Supreme Lord . . .

Guest (1): Then they are useless.

Prabhupāda: Useless. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ. It is already taken. Nirūpita means there is no argument. It is already concluded.

Guest (1): Your business is not to prove or disprove, but to glorify Him. Glorify Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By your knowledge. If you are scientist, you are chemist, through chemical challenge you try to glorify the Supreme Lord. If you are physist, from physical point of view, try to explain. If you are scientist . . . anyway, because ultimate . . . vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Any knowledge, that is . . . you have to approve the Supreme. That is real perfect knowledge. And at the present moment, men of knowledge, they are rejecting. Because they cannot explain, they reject. They do not bother.

Guest (1): They do not bother. Modern science has cleared the deck very much for religion.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest (1): Modern science has cleared the deck very much for religion. They are not so dogmatic as the old scientists used to be.

Prabhupāda: What do they say now?

Guest (1): Well, you see, the modern scientific discoveries have led to the stage at which the science can no more say that religion is humbug. Now they say: "Well, we do not know. Honestly speaking, that is the position," they say.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Guest (1): Yes. "We do not know. We know thus far, and not beyond." So that's a great achievement. That's a great achievement.

Prabhupāda: No. At least they should not teach, when they do not know.

Guest (1): Well, the topmost scientists, the topmost scientists are much saner now. They don't make . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the best thing will be, they may not talk all nonsense.

Guest (1): They don't talk nonsense.

Prabhupāda: If they admit they do not know, why do they speak so much?

Guest (1): One scientist has said that about matter, he says: "Matter is I know not what." This is his definition of matter. "Matter is I know not what." So no more dogmatism. No more dogmatism.

Prabhupāda: (aside) So you can distribute some prasāda.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

Yes. Another verse there is:

tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo

yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api

nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat

śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

(SB 1.5.11)

Lady Guest (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (3): Vrindavan se vida le . . . (indistinct) . . . (Taking leave from Vṛndāvana . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ap log sab kripa kijiye. (All of you can kindly give your blessings.)

Guest (3): Thodi kripa kare . . . (indistinct) . . . (Kindly give your blessings . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Guest (1): I suppose you will come now when this thing is constructed.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): We shall try to construct it as fast as . . .

Prabhupāda: Quickly.

Guest (1): Let us expedite this so that Prabhupāda may come again very soon.

Gurudāsa: Yes. Without . . . (indistinct) . . . work.

(background dialog among disciples) (break)

Indian Man (3): Bhagavat-dharma viman . . .

Prabhupāda: Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir" (SB 10.14.3)

Indian Man (3): Which, the same śloka still?

Indian Man (2): The same śloka.

Indian Man (3): He is just at the same śloka.

Indian Man (2): Same śloka. (laughter)

Indian Man (3): (indistinct) . . . (break)

Indian Man (2): Around the ninth?

Prabhupāda: Ninth.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Indian Man (2): Ninth.

Indian Man (2): How long you are here?

Gurudāsa: Ten days.

Indian Man (2): Ten days. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . that is siddhi. To be engaged in the service to Lord Kṛṣṇa. That is siddhi. All other siddhi is useless.

Gurudāsa: Hm.

Prabhupāda: It can be . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa said, dharma-siddhaye. Kṛṣṇa says siddhi. That is siddhi. (break)

Prabhupāda: So who are going?

Gurudāsa: Myself, Your Divine Grace, Brahmānanda Svāmī and Śrutakīrti.

Prabhupāda: And Paṇḍit?

Gurudāsa: And Paṇḍitjī.

(break) A vehicle would be very good, because it takes an hour to get to Mathurā, and we're doing many things in Mathurā.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Car is all right, but sometimes these taxis, they are very unclean.

Gurudāsa: Yes. So we will clean it if it is unclean, tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: So how you will clean?

Gurudāsa: Water, rags.

Prabhupāda: That is . . . it will take time.

(break) It is all right, but sometimes, especially in Vṛndāvana, they do not get many customers, and they purchase some old car. So you cannot expect Vṛndāvana taxi company very nice.

Brahmānanda: But since you have written the Kṛṣṇa Book, they have gotten many customers.

Prabhupāda: Oh?

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How?

Gurudāsa: Because so many people are coming to Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: I changed this?

Gurudāsa: Yes. There are now, Brahmānanda Svāmī and I counted, there are about twenty foreigners, besides us, here.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) . . . (indistinct)

Gurudāsa: Subsidiaries. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . tapes can be made by making work. And what he will make? What is this? (break) actually . . . (indistinct) . . . what do you think?

(break) . . . nice colony of European and American devotees. And you will remain. What Balarāma says?

(break) . . . sentiment this Karoli Baba. Nim Karoli . . .

Gurudāsa: Nim Karoli Baba.

Prabhupāda: What is that meaning, Nim Karoli?

Gurudāsa: I don't know? (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . it is very difficult to wash it. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva nāśa. One who once hears māyāvādi, māyāvādi-bhāṣya, he is doomed. His life is spoiled.

(break) . . . svāmī, and we give you one room, down. That room, not this room. My, not my sitting room; my cooking room. And he was . . . (indistinct) . . . settle up. (break) . . . these.

Gurudāsa: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you cannot give up. Now this exchange. Are you, Gauracand Goswami? Now . . . (indistinct) . . . that, this is Dāmodara's property. You give us some rent. So, if he is authorized to take, we can give. (break) And if you think that you do not require that, then . . . you told me that we required that for . . . (indistinct) . . . office.

Gurudāsa: Hmm. (break)

Prabhupāda: For space you do not require.

Gurudāsa: No.

Prabhupāda: But for sentimental reason, because I was there.

Gurudāsa: Ahh. Sacred. It's sacred.

Prabhupāda: So, that is also important thing.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore sacred purpose, those down two rooms required. Even you cannot change that also. The cooking. Is it not?

Gurudāsa: Hmm. (break)

Prabhupāda: But by all means we shall try to keep these.

Gurudāsa: Hmm. Both.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If not, we can exchange one. This is the policy.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not that we can give them.

Gurudāsa: No.

Prabhupāda: That should be. (break)

Gurudāsa: . . . came from Madana-mohana.

Prabhupāda: He sent this . . . (indistinct) . . . to me . . .

Gurudāsa: Mmm.

Prabhupāda: Pañcanātha?

Gurudāsa: What is Pañcanātha's interest?

Prabhupāda: He said that he wants to live there.

Gurudāsa: I think, maybe. (break) Ah.

Prabhupāda: It has been proved in the court, he was prostitute's son. He has no claim to the father's property. (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . that's very nice job.

Gurudāsa: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: This is simply protocol . . .

Gurudāsa: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: . . . but . . . (break) . . . that any son . . . (indistinct)

Gurudāsa: Yeah, any . . . (indistinct) . . . hmm. (break)

Prabhupāda: Make capātī from bajra.

Gurudāsa: Hmm. Very good.

Prabhupāda: At least take one capātī from bajra . . .

Gurudāsa: Ah.

Prabhupāda: . . . and one capātī of chickpea flour.

Gurudāsa: Oh, besan.

Prabhupāda: Besan. It will keep your body very heated.

Gurudāsa: Yes. Bajra especially is very . . . (break)

Devotee (4): You arrive there tomorrow morning, so we're just packing some books.

Prabhupāda: Alright.

(break)

Gurudāsa: If he doesn't, we get immediately . . .

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . (break) . . . siddhi.

Devotee (5): I should simply talk to him.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . .? No. Oh. Can you replay that? (break) (end)