731110 - Conversation - Delhi

Conversations by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

731110R1-DELHI - November 10, 1973 - 43:06 Minutes

(bhajana with harmonium)

Prabhupāda: You follow.

(bhajana continues with new tune) (break)

(Prabhupāda leads bhajana, with devotees responding)

Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) This tune I don't . . .? Ha? Brahmānanda, do you know it?

Brahmānanda: This tune? No.

Devotee: You did it in London.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: In London you did also, I think.

Prabhupāda: No, I think I did it in Los Angeles? Eh?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles, when I was in . . . (indistinct) . . . in Los Angeles there is a . . . (indistinct)

Brahmānanda: (indistinct) . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In front of a school. At that time Puruṣottama was. Puruṣottama and Kārtikeya and Sudāmā, and there was competition to collect flowers in the morning, early in the morning. So Sudāmā took first, and Puruṣottama second and Kārtikeya third. (laughter) Kārtikeya would collect so much and Puruṣottama so much. And Sudāmā . . . (laughter) There was regular competition for collecting flowers in the morning.

Devotee: In the neighborhood?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Collecting means stealing. (laughter) Stealing for Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Sudāmā was telling me that he had unfair, because they got to go first, so they got all the closest flowers, and he had to go far away to find his flowers.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) He still he collected more. All rose and . . .

Brahmānanda: Gardenia.

Prabhupāda: Gardenia. No, there was little others, but mostly roses and gardenias. Here we cannot; neither there is any flowers in front of any house. So your country is in so many ways benedicted. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and you are perfect. You'll be demigods on this planet. Push this movement. Here in India so much scarcity. It's a curse. Scarcity means it is curse. So after my coming, was there any program? No. In the paṇḍāl? You were there?

Devotee: After you left.

Devotee (2): We were in the program after Prabhupada left. And then at nine o'clock there was prasādam.

Prabhupāda: No question-answer?

Devotee: Individually there were questions. There were not so many people after . . .

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee: There were not so many people after everything was over. (break)

Prabhupāda: (laughter) Crossing three oceans and seven seas and thirteen rivers, then come to this island. Unless one is very Columbus, serious, he will not come. So we say in Bengali, saat samudra tero nadi, seven seas and thirteen rivers, after crossing. People cannot come with their car also, that is another thing. Gentleman will come, and you will have to leave your car three miles away. That is another thing. Only the most interested persons are coming. Therefore you will see, they are all . . . they are interested persons. It is better to select the most interested.

Devotee: Next time we will have it at Palam Airport.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: Next time we will have it further away, so we can get the most interested.

Prabhupāda: So then nobody will come. (laughter) They say that, "Your intelligence is so big that it cannot be captured." And somebody says: "Your intelligence is so subtle, it may be said that you have no intelligence." (laughter) So one man's intelligence cannot be captured; another man has no intelligence. Eh? "Your intelligence is so fine that it may be said that there is no intelligence," and "Your intelligence is so big that it cannot be captured." So both ways it proves no intelligence.

Another story is that one boy, he appeared in his examination. His father asked, "How did you reply to your examination paper?" "Yes, quite nice." Then he said: "How?" "So there were very difficult questions that I could not answer, and there were easier questions, they are known to me; I did not answer." (laughter) "They are known to me. What is the use of answering? The difficult questions I could not answer, and the easier, that I know, there is no use of answering." That means he did not do anything.

So Rukmiṇī-devī, how you are? You have learned something, doll-making?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: I'm trying.

Prabhupāda: Still trying?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: I am making Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and . . . (indistinct) . . . baradrāj, ṣaḍ-bhūja, Ādi-deva.

Prabhupāda: Ṣaḍ-bhūja . . . no, simply you have to learn the art, how to do it. Then you can make any number of bhūjas—ṣaḍ-bhūja, ten-bhuja, just (laughter) you have to learn how to make the straw . . . what is called?

Devotee: Body.

Prabhupāda: Straw body. You have learned that, how to do it?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: We are learning.

Devotee: That is the main problem.

Prabhupāda: That is the main thing, yes. Structure. Then you can . . . any artist can, I mean, do the covering, the art. But these people, they know; within half an hour they make one body, straw body. In Calcutta there is a place, Kumartuli, simply they are doll-makers. So during . . . there are so many pūjās, Sarasvatī-pūjā, Kalki-pūjā, Kālī-pūjā. So each man will make ten deities, twenty deities, daily.

Devotee: That is small?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Not very small, say two feet high.

Devotee: Where is this in Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Calcutta it is called Kumartuli. Kumartuli means "Potters' quarters." They are all potters. That was the benefit of caste system. A class, they are simply engaged in pottery, family-wise, all—small children, wife, husband, everyone. They know. Similarly goldsmith, blacksmith, carpenter, all these artisans classified, and by generation they know everything. Weaver. So there are no competition, and because they do it family-wise, their charges are not very much. They are satisfied, any little amount they get. That was the Indian civilization. Brāhmaṇa is satisfied.

All other workers, they are satisfied with what they get. Vaiśya, agriculture, whatever he is producing, that's all right. The balance time they would save for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This was the basic principle, and these rascal leaders, they thought that they are not energetic—inertia. Give them wine, give them meat, they will be enthusiastic. That is the present policy. Simple life. Now they have changed—very complicated, complex life, industrial life, ugra-karmā. Ugra-karmā, that is described in the sixteenth chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. Find out that.

Pradyumna: Find what?

Prabhupāda: Sixteenth chapter, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca vidur āsurāḥ janā (BG 16.7). Jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca vidur āsurāḥ janā.

Pradyumna: (reads)

pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca

janā na vidur āsurāḥ

na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro

na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate

(BG 16.7)

"Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them."

Prabhupāda: Then? Next verse.

Pradyumna: (reads)

asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te

jagad āhur anīśvaram

aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ kim

anyat kāma-haitukam

(BG 16.8)

"They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust."

Prabhupāda: Then? Go on.

Pradyumna: (reads)

etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya

naṣṭātmāno 'lpa-buddhayaḥ

prabhavanty ugra-karmāṇaḥ . . .

Prabhupāda: Ugra-karmā, ugra-karmā. Go on.

Pradyumna: . . . kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ (BG 16.9).

Prabhupāda: kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ

Pradyumna: (reads) "Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Pradyumna: (reads) "The demoniac are engaged in activities that will lead the world to destruction. The Lord states here that they are less intelligent. The materialists, who have no concept of God, think that they are advancing . . ."

Prabhupāda: This has been proved true by the last two world wars—destruction. Twice Europe, whole Europe became destroyed. Is it not? Germany especially. Russia also.

Devotee (3): I was there in Poland after the war, in Europe. But everything, practically all of Warsaw was practically was completely destroyed. All the people were living in ruins.

Prabhupāda: Yes, jagato 'hitāḥ. Kṣayāya, this ugra-karmā. The industry is ugra-karmā. It is not simple. Industrial enterprise is ugra-karmā. Just like this room, big, big crucible. You have seen? How you have seen?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: The crucible is like a . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Iron, other metals, especially iron, melted, and that is molded. If somehow or other it slips, all men will be killed immediately. Such a big crucible. It is carried by railway, then it is lifted, then gradually poured in the mold. Then it goes to make big, big beams and all this. Ugra-karmā. They require big, big beams for the skyscraper building. Ha? Do they not require, big, big beams?

The skyscraper buildings fitting those big, big beams, the American Indians are engaged?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The Americans cannot do it. They do not take so much risk. They have had some accidents also?

Devotee: The Mohawk Indians.

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Devotee: One tribe, the Mohawk . . .

Prabhupāda: Mohawk.

Devotee: . . . especially for heights, because they are from mountains, so they were employed on top of bridges and buildings.

Devotee (2): They're not scared of looking down. It is so far high that the Indians are not scared to be so high.

Prabhupāda: If I am put there, immediately I will fall. Yes. It is gravity. No inexpert man can do that. Ugra-karmā. If you can live on the ground, little production milk and grains . . . ugra-karmā, kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ (BG 16.9). If we say that this is ugra-karmā, they will say: "Oh, you want to go to the primitive world." Primitive world means there was no improvement.

(pause)

What people are remarking about our festival? Did you hear, overhear anything? No.

Devotee: Many people are coming; they are impressed with our activities. They especially come because they are impressed. They have been to some of our previous programs.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee: They have attended some of our previous programs.

Prabhupāda: Yes, previously they were so enthusiastic. They wanted to continue, requested me to continue, and the LC manager said: "Yes, I will give extension." Do you know that? But you stopped. We could have continued, they were very much pleased. Hansaraj was sorry that . . . he remarked that.

Devotee: In his talk.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. Whatever Kṛṣṇa desires, that's all right. But number of people was greater than yesterday.

Devotee: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: It may increase.

Devotee: Every day was very glorious. The sankīrtan parties distributed many books.

Brahmānanda: The Mauritius High Commissioner said that he was lifted tonight. He felt lifted up by attending. He said: "Oh, this has given me a lift." I told him because it is the meaning of life, that we are doing so many things without knowing meaning. So when we actually know the meaning . . .

Prabhupāda: Nobody knows what is the aim of life.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say bokāran. Bokā you know? It is Indian word, bokā. Bokā means foolish. Such important life they are wasting like animals. So, Anita, how you are feeling. Ha? What your father says?

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You do not like to stay there? (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why? Just go and sleep on the lap of your mother. Ha? Your mother is angry?

Mātājī: No.

Prabhupāda: She is not. Father?

Mātājī: No.

Brahmānanda: He telephoned.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Brahmānanda: He telephoned me today.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Why? He said . . . (indistinct) . . .?

Brahmānanda: He said that he is sorry he did not bring the car, and that he wanted to come to the program; he would try to come.

Prabhupāda: Hm. The father, mother, both should be . . . they are blessed, because their devotee's child. So they are feeling . . .

Devotee: You have stolen us.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee: You have stolen us from all of our parents.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, your mother said.

Brahmānanda: Yes. She has given two sons to you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I asked her, "Give us some contribution." "I have given two, my two sons!" (devotees laugh) And "That's all right. Don't be . . . (indistinct) . . ." She was coming in that time, so I asked her, that "Give us some contribution Mrs. . . . (indistinct) . . ." "So I have given you my two sons!" Why give father and mother? They are so much feeling obliged. Our Acutyananda's mother would also come.

Devotee: Oh, yes. She came regularly.

Prabhupāda: And that Trayādīśa, his mother. No, our Mr. Pellan, he is also happy, at least. Every sober father and mother will be happy. What your father says?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: He always asks, "Where is Prabhupāda?"

Prabhupāda: He is not happy?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: Yes. He always asks: "Where is Prabhupāda?"

Prabhupāda: Accha. Her father came to me at marriage. I called him. Her father is a big businessman. What business is your father in?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: Textiles.

Prabhupāda: He has got mill?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: No, he has two shops in the suburbs.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Seller.

Rukmiṇī dāsī: Yes . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: How many children he has got?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: One brother and one sister.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And what is the condition of your brother?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: He is a scholar.

Prabhupāda: A what?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: He is younger than me, but he was becoming a scholar.

Prabhupāda: He has passed M.A.?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He has passed his master's?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: No, no, he is young. He is taking four years of high school in three years.

Prabhupāda: What is the age?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: He is, umm, he is seventeen.

Prabhupāda: Much younger.

Rukmiṇī dāsī: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So he likes you, your brother? Mother? The mother also came, I think.

Rukmiṇī dāsī: Yes . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Now you have got Kṛṣṇa, be happy.

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ

manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ

yasmin sthito guruṇāpi

duḥkhena na vicālyate

(BG 6.23)

If anyone gets Kṛṣṇa, then he doesn't want any more anything. Svāmin kṛtārtho'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Dhruva Mahārāja did penance. So Viṣṇu, "Take benediction. You've undergone so much austerity. Whatever you want, you can take it from Me." Svāmin kṛtārtho'smi varaṁ na yāce. He went for tapasya for getting kingdom, but when he was offered the benediction, he says that, "I don't want anything," kṛtārtho'smi. "I am so much obliged and satisfied. I don't want it."

svāmin kṛtārtho'smi varaṁ na yāce

kācaṁ vicinvann api divya-ratnaṁ

(Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 7.28, CC Madhya 22.42)

"I was searching after some pieces of broken glasses; now I have got diamonds." Kācaṁ vicinvann api divya-ratnaṁ. "Then where is my demand any more? I went searching after broken pieces of glass, and now I have got diamonds." So where is the case for asking him? Kṛtārtho: "I am fully satisfied; I don't want." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One is fully satisfied with Kṛṣṇa, then he . . . sit down anywhere, any place, full of thought of Kṛṣṇa—no more worries. That is gopīs' perfection. They don't want. Even Kṛṣṇa is not with them, the thought of Kṛṣṇa is there, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is now in the forest. He is walking on the ground full of pebbles on His soft soles of His feet," and they are in anxiety. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even Kṛṣṇa is not present, thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is their perfection.

gopīs, they are the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and out of the gopīs, Rādhārāṇī, the topmost gopī, who has purchased Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is purchased by Rādhārāṇī. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, to understand what assets He has got, that Rādhārāṇī is pleased so much, therefore He took the . . . what is called, mode of Rādhārāṇī to understand Himself. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the ecstasy of Rādhārāṇī feeling separation from Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇa left Vṛndāvana for Mathurā, and then all the gopīs and Rādhārāṇī, they are feeling separation. That is the mode of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, how they were feeling separation from Kṛṣṇa.

So Rukmiṇī devi, you are feeling like that? Like the gopīs? Ha?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the first stage. Govinda-viraheṇa me. What is that verse? Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me.

Rukmiṇī dāsī: Yugāyitaṁ . . .

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa . . .

Prabhupāda: Ha.

yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa

cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam

śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ

govinda-viraheṇa me

(CC Antya 20.39, Śikṣāṣṭaka 7)

Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa. Nimiṣa. The . . . what is called?

Devotee: Blinking.

Prabhupāda: Blinking, the blinking of the eyes. That is called nimiṣa. It is called nimiṣa. This time is called nimiṣa. So that nimiṣa is twelve years—so long. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa. And cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam, tears coming down, torrents of rain. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ: whole world vacant; govinda-viraheṇa me, being separated from Govinda. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . .

yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa

cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam

śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ

govinda-viraheṇa me

(CC Antya 20.39, Śikṣāṣṭaka 7)

(break) . . . grahaṇe bhaviṣyate. What is that verse? (break) . . . sidhardaya. Ha?

Rukmiṇī dāsī: I don't know.

Prabhupāda:

vadanaṁ gadgada-ruddhayā girā

pulakair nicitaṁ vapuḥ kadā

tava nāma-grahaṇe bhaviṣyati

(CC Antya 20.36)

(break)

Devotee: . . . very satisfied . . . (indistinct) . . . Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . sixteen times thirty-five, with four hundred and eighty. That comparison we get. We started with one hundred and twenty.

yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa

cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam

śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ

govinda-viraheṇa me

(CC Antya 20.39, Śikṣāṣṭaka 7)

(devotees offer obeisances) (end)