701106 - Conversation - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1970

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

701106R1-BOMBAY - November 04, 1970 - 21:40 Minutes

Prabhupāda: There are nice birds. Cuckoo.

Devotee: That cuckoo bird?

Prabhupāda: "Co-co, co-co, co."

Haṁsadūta: In India everything is alive.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Haṁsadūta: I said. In India it appears that everything is alive.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: When we came we first noticed that everywhere there's a town, all kinds of animals are living. No one is disturbing them.

Prabhupāda: Well, this is land of religion. It is admitted by other parts of the world. Just see. Columbus was searching after India even for trade, hundred of years . . . people are coming to India for so many: for knowledge, for philosophy, for trade, for money. Why these Britishers came? They came for money. And now, India being exploited for so many thousands of years and their standard of civilization deteriorated, the condition is now . . . still, India's position is unique, still, in this fallen condition. Now people are degraded from their high standard of living, from spiritual point of view, material point of view. And still, they stand, previous social construction, their living condition, their feelings of religion. It is still going on. Climate also.

Haṁsadūta: Climate.

Prabhupāda: Climate also. The climate is very favorable. Now it is, of course, winter season. Otherwise, it will continue for two months only. It is not very severe, and still, this condition will not continue. Throughout the whole year you can remain naked body. There is no expenditure for dressing much. And to remain clean, you simply wash in the water, and immediately it is . . . so with one cloth or two cloths you can go on for six months. There is no much expenditure. And this vegetarian diet, if you take a few grains of this chick pea and little milk, you don't require anything to eat. Everything, facility, is there still. But they have . . . the people are being trained up to imitate Western civilization. That is the government policy that, "Unless you become westernized, technologist, you'll not be happy." But they can become happy even in this condition. This artificial partition has caused some trouble by the Britishers because the Pakistan has taken away all the wheat and rice. Their purpose was that . . .

The Punjab side, they are producing wheat in very large quantity. In Bengal, that is the . . . perhaps the biggest rice producing country in the world, Bengal. So rice is in Pakistan and wheat is in Pakistan. Even cows, they were maintained by the Punjabis, big, big cows, milk-producing. They are now in the Punjab. So there is no milk, there is no rice, there is no wheat. And they have no sugar. The sugar is produced this side. In this way, always.

And the Kashmir question . . . that is British policy. Due to this partition only, India's position is now very crippled. And these rascal leaders, they accepted partition for becoming prime minister. This policy. Gandhi never agreed. So the Jawaharlal Nehru, in order to become prime minister, he committed such a blunder. Therefore India is given . . .

Still, if they keep to their original culture, they will not be unhappy. And you'll find in every city some such institution as this Gītā Bhavan. In every city you'll find. People are contributing. They are coming. They are holding ceremony, calling saintly persons, every city still. Just like we have gone to Punjab?

Revatīnandana: Amritsar.

Prabhupāda: Amritsar. How people were anxious to hear. Then there will be the Kumbha-melā. If you go to Kumbha-melā you'll see how from all different parts of the country, millions of people will come to participate.

Devotee: (indistinct) . . . Allahabad?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Millions and millions of people. There is no advertisement, but they will come. Government wanted to discourage them in so many ways. In Jagannātha Purī you will find daily, in Vṛndāvana and all sacred places. The Ārya-samājīs, the government, they tried to condemn this temple worship, this . . .

Haṁsadūta: Nehru.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nehru, yes. Nehru was such a rascal that he came . . . Ramakrishna Mission has a big hospital in Vṛndāvana. So on the opening day he came from Delhi by helicopter. He stayed there the whole day. He came in the morning, and the function took place in the evening. Or in daytime. He left the same day. But he did not visit a single temple. You see? Such an atheist he was.

Haṁsadūta: He was also involved in that Jagannātha . . . there were many carvings on the temple, and he had some of them destroyed, at the Jagannātha temple.

Prabhupāda: What it is? What he has destroyed?

Himāvatī: It was a sun temple.

Prabhupāda: Sun?

Himāvatī: Sun. They worship the sun.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Himāvatī: And there are many obscene statues, so he came to that temple and said: "What is this?" and he had them destroyed . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He was a great rascal.

Change this water.

Revatīnandana: You saved us from all these rascals, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Revatīnandana: You saved us from all these rascals . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Himāvatī: You saved us from all these rascals. You're the only one who told us these kind of people are . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Because if Nehru was a rascal, then what was Johnson and Nixon? What are they?

Prabhupāda: They are also rascals. All these politicians, they are rascals. Yes. That is Kali-yuga. Where king was like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, now he is Johnson and Nehru. So how people will be happy?

Haṁsadūta: So we have to run some of our devotees for office.

Prabhupāda: No, if you can make the people Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be automatically. Because the democracy is there. So if they vote for a Kṛṣṇa conscious person to become president and prime minister, then everything will be saved. So that means you have to create voter, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be right. That should be one of your aims, the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. The government is still is under the control of the public. That's a fact. If the public becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, naturally the government will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. But that is up to the public. But they do not want to. Therefore they want a king—the crane was sent.

You know this story? The frogs, they wanted a king from God, and God gave. He gave them one stone . . . (indistinct) . . . small. So they were expecting a king. Then, when they saw that king is not speaking, somebody jumped over it. Still, the king did not say: "What can be done to the king?" So they accused the God that, "What kind of king you have . . .? He does not speak. He does not move."

"All right." Then He sent one crane. So the crane came and began to catch one like that. Then they became, "Oh, what kind of king?" (laughs) (laughter) So the public is like that. They wanted. They defied this religious system. They defied their . . . yes. The modernizing. Who was saying, "the modernized version of Bhagavad-gītā"? Chinmayananda?

Haṁsadūta: Chinmayananda.

Prabhupāda: They're appreciating. You see?

Revatīnandana: There's a story I read. Sometimes the . . . in South America there's a small wildcat called ocelot. And they are like tigers, but very small. They eat monkeys. They eat monkeys in the tree. They're cats, about twice as big as a house cat, called ocelots. And sometimes these ocelots, they'll lay on the branch of a tree like they're dead.

They don't move. They don't even blink their eyes. And all the monkeys come and they gather around to see this dead ocelot. And finally the monkeys get very crazy and they go, one of them, and pull the tail of the ocelot, and then it's all over. That's how they kill the monkeys.

Prabhupāda: Therefore monkeys are considered very fools.

Haṁsadūta: Foolish.

Prabhupāda: Foolish, yes.

Revatīnandana: They're like the people, and the leaders kill them.

Prabhupāda: There are some birds, they also eat monkeys.

Haṁsadūta: Birds.

Revatīnandana: Big hawks like eagles.

Prabhupāda: Monkey-eaters. I have seen that bird in Los Angeles zoo, monkey-eater bird.

Revatīnandana: They're from Africa. Big eagles.

Haṁsadūta: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja told us about the monkeys in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many monkeys.

Himāvatī: Big monkeys.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Himāvatī: No?

Prabhupāda: That is in Bengal. That is called Hanumān.

Revatīnandana: You said they will join a gang. You said in Vṛndāvana they would come in a gang. And three or four will jump out in front like this, and the rest will grab what you have and take it away. You said they would do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: They're very smart.

Prabhupāda: But if you have got a stick, they will not come. They are afraid of stick. The dogs also, they are afraid of stick. Therefore in such places one should carry in hand one stick. That is safe. After all, they are animals. They know that a man can strike with the stick very severely. They are afraid of that. In Vṛndāvana, in the beginning, I was eating, and a monkey entered very peacefully and took it, everything. (laughter) He took everything. I could not replace. I began running. Immediately caught up. They do like that. In Vṛndāvana you cannot open doors.

Haṁsadūta: Really?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Haṁsadūta: They come right in. They're so bold?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.

Haṁsadūta: They're so bold?

Prabhupāda: Bold means they will come and they have no tactic. You are eating and they'll enter. Something he will take away. Therefore there are . . . just like here, two sets of doors, one net, the railing door. So one door is closed, wooden; another is railing. So railing door must be closed always. Otherwise you cannot eat, you cannot live very peacefully. They may . . . monkey will come.

Devotee: Acyutānanda said he was making capatis one day, and there was a little . . . a nail this thin especially to keep the monkeys out, holding the door closed. So he heard a sound outside and thought somebody was coming, and, sure enough, the nail was lifted up by the string, and a monkey popped in, got his cāpāṭis and ran.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are very clever.

Himāvatī: But after all, they're human beings also . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Monkey is the last species of life before being promoted to the human being. There are three animals: monkey and cow and tiger . . . lion. Yes.

Haṁsadūta: When that promotion comes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are not immediately born into a society like American or . . .?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Uncivilized, just like aborigine.

Haṁsadūta: Aborigines, negroes . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Human species. Then gradually they become born in civilized . . .

Haṁsadūta: It must be very difficult to actually get a birth in a civilized society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. Therefore it is said, labdhvā sudurlabham (SB 11.9.29). It is very rare, now, especially to take birth in India in the Vedic society. India means within this planet, the civilized Aryan family. Now Āryan families have degraded. Otherwise, Āryan means progressive. So all over the world the Āryan families, they have degraded. Otherwise, the Vedic civilization was Āryan civilization.

Devotee: Some places they recognize that. When we went to one meeting in Bombay . . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: The Europeans and Americans, they belong to Āryan family. They have lost their Vedic culture. Now it is being revived again.

Revatīnandana: They came from those renegade kings that ran away from Paraśurāma?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many reasons.

Revatīnandana: Is it also true that the Scandinavians come from . . . kaṁsa-nisūdana was telling me that the Scandinavians . . . the name Scandinavia came from Skandha, god of war, and that these people were driven out of India by the Hindu society. They were worshipers of Skandha, and they took shelter in northern Europe?

Prabhupāda: Maybe. Actually Āryan civilization was Central Asia. Some of them went towards India and some of them went towards Europe. Indo-European stock, that is called.

Revatīnandana: Central Asia.

Prabhupāda: Central Asia. Caucasian. Kaśyapa . . . Kaśyapa Muni's place.

Haṁsadūta: How come they're so white?

Prabhupāda: The Āryans are white. But here, this side, due to climatic influence, they are a little tanned. Indians are tan, but they are not black. But Āryans are all white. And the non-Āryans, they are called black. Yes.

Devotee: They use the term "Caucasian" to designate those persons who . . .

Prabhupāda: Not only Europeans. The Kashmir side of this Afghanistan, Baluchistan and Punjab, they are all white.

Devotee: Caucasaus Mountains is near Afghanistan.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All white. In Punjab, you'll find, they are as white as Europeans. Oh, yes. Kashmir.

Himāvatī: Also in . . . (indistinct) . . . and they're tall.

Prabhupāda: Tall. So Āryan family, whole Āryans, they are white. And śūdras are called kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa, black. Yes.

Revatīnandana: But the śūdras have handsome bodily features also. In Amritsar the people have, I think, handsome bodily features.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Āryan family, the structure of body . . . from the . . . there is a science called physiognomy. No? Yes. So it can be ascertained. But we have to forget all these material . . . we have to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "This is white skin . . ." So you have all taken your bath?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So, give me little oil. I shall also take bath.

Devotee: What to do about a massage?

Prabhupāda: Do. Do it. (end)