701110 - Lecture SB 06.01.14 - Bombay

Lectures by Date, 1970

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

701110SB-BOMBAY - November 10, 1970 - 95:28 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (sings solo)

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa

kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare

hare rāma hare rāma

rāma rāma hare hare

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya

prabhu-nityānanda

śrī-advaita gadādhara

śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam

prāptasya kalyāṇa-guṇārṇavasya

vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam

This is . . . (indistinct) . . . we have to . . . but nobody is prepared that way. So when Gupta took you from the train, where did you stay?

Yamunā: We were taken to a small mandira called Raghunātha temple in old Delhi, right by Delhi . . . (indistinct) . . . and we stayed there for nearly one month.

Prabhupāda: So was that all right? No.

Yamunā: It is not first class, no.

Prabhupāda: Second class or third class?

Yamunā: Between second and third.

Prabhupāda: Intermediate.

Yamunā: Now Gurudāsa agrees third class.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Where it is?

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Yamunā: It is on outskirts of Delhi, but very reputable.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Yamunā: Very much respected . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: International Academy. It is near Humayun Road?

Yamunā: I don't know, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What is the address? Somebody knows? Eh? Where is Girirāja? He is not yet prepared? Acchā . . . (indistinct) . . . (break)

deha-vāg-buddhijaṁ dhīrā

dharmajñāḥ śraddhayānvitāḥ

kṣipanty aghaṁ mahad api

veṇu-gulmam ivānalaḥ

(SB 6.1.14)

So persons who observe the principles of tapasya, austerities; brahmācārya, celibacy; controlling the mind; controlling the senses—these are practiced—this is called yoga system. Then, mahad api agham: even he is subjected to the resultant action of great sinful life, he can vanquish it. The example is given just like to set fire in the field, and all the dry plants and grasses immediately become burned. So by austerity, tapasya, brahmācārya, celibacy, these regulative principles can burn out the sinful reactions—not by the root.

The example is given the dry vegetables or plants, they are burned from outside, but the root remains. The root is not burned. And the root remaining within the earth, as soon as there is favorable condition—there is some rain—again they come out. In other words, by tapasya, by austerity, by celibacy one can superficially get out of the sinful reaction, but because it is not rooted out, as soon as there is some opportunity, favorable conditions, again they come out.

Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī says:

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

(SB 6.1.15)

He is giving another example: nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. Fog, when there is big fog that you cannot see in front of you anyone, but as soon as there is sunlight the fog immediately disappears. Similarly, agham dhunvanti. Kecit kevalaya bhaktya vasudeva parayanaḥ (SB 6.1.15). Simply by becoming devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, one can immediately vanquish all sinful reaction. Just like the sun causes disappearance of the fog without any extra effort. You take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness sincerely, seriously, then all the past reaction of your sinful activities will be vanquished.

Now there are two kinds of vanquishing: one by setting fire on the dry plants, and the rising of the sun and fog, the fog disappearing. Again in the presence of sun there is no possibility of appearance of fog. That is not possible. But the dry plants burnt out, as soon as there is rainfall, it again come out.

So by bhakti, by devotional service, one can completely root out the causes of sinful life. Not by otherwise. It is not possible.

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā

vāsudeva parāyaṇāḥ

aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena

nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

(SB 6.1.15)

na tathā hy aghavān rājan

pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ

yathā kṛṣṇārpita-prāṇas

tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā

(SB 6.1.16)

Yes, come in. Aiye.

Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī comments, na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādibhiḥ. Tapasya, austerity; brahmācārya, celibacy; controlling the mind; controlling the senses—they are also recommended, but they are not as strong means as devotional service.

Na tathā hy aghavān rājan pūyeta tapa-ādhibhiḥ. That aghavān, those who are sinful persons, they cannot become so much purified by observing austerity, penances, celibacy, as one can become completely free from sinful reaction by becoming devotee. Yathā kṛṣṇārpita-prāṇas tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā.

One who has dedicated his life to Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇārpita prāṇa . . . prāṇa means life, and arpita means dedicated unto Kṛṣṇa. Or kṛṣṇārpita, two things: one to dedicate his life to Kṛṣṇa, and at the same time, tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā. Tat puruṣa means the spiritual master who is a bona fide devotee of Kṛṣṇa. By serving him, niṣevayā.

Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. We have to acquire two kinds of benediction: one from Kṛṣṇa and one from the spiritual master. By serving the spiritual master we get the mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo. By serving the spiritual master we please Kṛṣṇa. We cannot please Kṛṣṇa directly. This is nonsense. It is not possible. Just like we cannot approach any big man without going through his secretary. Similarly, we cannot approach directly Kṛṣṇa without going through His bona fide representative. Tat-puruṣa-niṣevayā.

Bhakti svapalpy pumarpi . . . (reads commentary of Śrīdhara Swami) Tat-puruṣa-niṣevaya. Kṛṣṇa arpita prāṇa jñena. Then again he says, sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke panthāḥ kṣemo akuto-bhayaḥ. Therefore this process of devotional service is without any danger, akuto-bhayaḥ. Akuto-bhayaḥ means without any fearfulness. You can go expressly.

Just like a child taking shelter of his father, catching the hand of his father, crosses the street without any fear. There is no cause of fear. He knows, "My father is there." Similarly, by accepting the process of devotional service . . . so these things they do not consider, they do not . . .

Now yesterday the two boys, medical boys, they were arguing, "Why not other way?" Other ways are not so safe. Any other way is—jñāna-mārga, yoga-mārga, karma-mārga—they are not safe. Exactly the same way: prāyaścitta, atonement. They are not safe. The only safest way is bhakti-mārga.

sadhrīcīno hy ayaṁ loke

panthāḥ kṣemo 'kuto-bhayaḥ

suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra

nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ

(SB 6.1.17)

Nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ. Those who are devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, automatically they are suśīlāḥ, their characters are very nice, suśīlāḥ. Sādhava, and they are actually saintly persons. Others cannot be accepted, because they have got chance of falling down. But those who are devotees, they cannot fall. Kṛṣṇa will protect them. Suśīlāḥ sādhavo yatra nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇāḥ.

prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni

nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukham

na niṣpunanti rājendra

surā-kumbham ivāpagāḥ

(SB 6.1.18)

Prāyaścittāni, the process of atonement or the process of austerity, penance, they are not safe. Kiṁ na nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukham. They are not safe in this sense: because they are nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukham. Parāṅmukham: devoid of devotional service. They are thinking by this practice of self-realization process, austerities, they'll be safe. But there is no sense of devotional service, such persons are not safe. Prāyaścittāni cīrṇāni nārāyaṇa-parāṅmukham, na niṣpunanti. Therefore they are not completely freed from the contamination.

The example is given, na niṣpunanti rājendra surā-kumbham ivāpagāḥ. Just like the pot which contains wine, they are even washed by the river they are not accepted, they are not purified. In India the process is, which is still, that big earthen pot which contains wine, they are thrown into the river. But nobody touches, although it is washed very nicely. Nowadays the situation is different. Formerly, anything which contained wine, it is never purified. It is never to be touched. Surā-kumbham ivāpagāḥ.

sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor

niveśitaṁ tad-guṇa-rāgi yair iha

na te yamaṁ pāśa-bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān

svapne 'pi paśyanti hi cīrṇa niṣkṛtāḥ

(SB 6.1.19)

Śrīla Śrīdhara Swami says, tad daiva suśīlāḥ kṛpalavaḥ sādhavaḥ niṣkāma. Suśīlāḥ means those who have received the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, suśīlāḥ, kṛpalavaḥ, or those who can bestow benediction to others, suśīlāḥ. Sādhava. Who are sādhava, sādhu? Niṣkāma, those who have no desire for material enjoyment. That is . . . he is called sādhu. And that niṣkāma means those who are devotee. Without being devotee, nobody can be niṣkāma, without any desires. Without any desires . . . desire there must be. We cannot subdue our desires, because we are living entities. Desire must be there. But desire for sense gratification has to be given up. That is called desireless. Otherwise, it is not possible to become desireless. Desire must be there.

So sādhava. Sādhava, Śrīdhara Swami is giving note, niṣkāma, those who have no desire. So this desire . . . niṣkāma means those who have no desire for sense gratification. They are sādhu. And who are they? Devotees. Akāma. Their other name is akāma. They have no desires. Personally they have no desires. Their only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is their only desire. That is natural. Because we are eternally servants of Kṛṣṇa, or God, our desire should be how to please God, how to please Kṛṣṇa. Just like obedient servant, sincere servant, they are always waiting for the order of the master, and they try how to please him, how to make him happy.

Of course, this is not possible in this material world. Material world nobody is servant of anybody. Everyone wants to be master of another. Actually, he does not serve anyone. He serves because he gets some money. So as soon as the money payment is stopped, immediately servant becomes disobedient. Therefore there is no service in the material world. It is exchange of money.

The service is niṣkāma. That is brāhmaṇa, devotee. They do not expect anything from the Personality of Godhead. They want simply His satisfaction. Sādhava niṣkāmān yatra yasmin mārge. Therefore we have to follow mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186), great personality, the path of the great personalities. The great personalities means the devotees. We have to follow the path of the devotees.

(Sanskrit) Śrīdhara Swami says that bhakti mārga, the path of devotion, is immune from all kinds of fearfulness because jñāna-mārga, jñāna mārga, the path of knowledge, is full of difficulties. Because I am trying myself, I have no protector. I do not know, if I am in danger, who will give me protection. Jñānīs, they try to understand the Absolute Truth by dint of their knowledge. So Śrīdhara Swami says they are atahaya. Atahaya means without any protection. If they make any mistake . . .

Just like a little student, they are learning something, but there is protection of the teacher. As soon as he commits a mistake, immediately the teacher rectifies: "My dear boy, do like this." But anyone who has no teacher, no protector, simply trying himself, if he commits any mistake there is nobody protecting him. Therefore jñāna-mārga, the path of knowledge, is risky.

Similarly, the path of karma is also risky. Mataraka. If you prosecute the path of karma, there is envy between the karmīs. If you become greater than me in execution of your fruitive activities, I become envious of you, "Oh, this man is making so much progress in business or in some other way, in practice. I could not do." So I become envious. Similarly, if I advance, my friend becomes envious. So karma-mārga is the path of enviousness. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). The Bhāgavata is meant for persons who are absolutely free from enviousness.

So both paths, karma-mārga, jñāna-mārga, they are not very safe. So in Bhagavad-gītā, you will find in the Seventh Chapter, asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). Asaṁśaya, "Without any doubt." Just like our path, devotional service, we are fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt. So others, they are finding who is God, what is God, they have got doubt. And they do not know also completely what is God. But we know what is God: Supreme Personality . . . Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).

Because we have taken the path of devotional service that with firm conviction, and we are making progress in that way. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). Mayā stitha mano buddhiḥ. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. "Anyone who," yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, "by accepting a devotee, by taking shelter of a devotee, one who practices this yoga," Kṛṣṇa says in the Seventh Chapter then, "he can understand Me," asaṁśayam, "without any doubt," and samagram, "completely." Yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu.

In other path . . . actually, there are so many parties, especially the impersonalist party, they are also searching after the Absolute Truth, but they have got only vague idea, not complete, perfect idea. It is saṁśayam, with doubts, and asamagram, not complete. That's a fact. They cannot give you any clear idea of the concept of God. That is not possible. And sādhu. The Bhagavad-gītā . . . who is sādhu? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). One who is performing devotional service without any deviation, ananya-bhāk, undivided mind, simply unto Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu.

So api cet su-durācāro. If somebody says, "These devotee, these American and European devotees, we accept as sādhu, but they have got some bad habits." Suppose one sees, according to the European-American custom after eating they do not wash hands. That is . . . they are not practiced to that way. So similarly, if I see that "Here is an American devotee or European devotee, he ate but did not wash his hands, so he is not yet perfect," "No," Kṛṣṇa says "No." Api cet suḍurācāro. This is a small fault that he has not washed his hands.

But we should not neglect to wash our hands. If by mistake, if by forgetfulness I do that, that is excused. But not that because it is excused we shall follow . . . we shall neglect the rules and regulations. But Kṛṣṇa says that even he is suḍurācāro, his behavior is not up to the standards, still he is sādhu. Still, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He should be taken, accepted as sādhu. Because why? Because he has taken Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Without any deviation, he is engaged in His service. That qualification makes him sādhu. It is not that by mistake, if he commits some mistake in his behavior.

So if the question is, then, "With misbehavior, how he can be sādhu?" Kṛṣṇa answers that, kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati (BG 9.31): because he has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa as the Absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore very soon he'll be reformed, although in the . . . at the present moment he is not completely in sadācara platform. Still he should be accepted as sādhu because very soon he'll be completely reformed.

The same thing Śukadeva Gosvāmī says: sakṛn manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor niveśitaṁ tad-guṇa-rāgi yair iha (SB 6.1.19). Anyone who has taken the shelter of Kṛṣṇa, sakṛn, manaḥ kṛṣṇa, and has dedicated his mind unto Kṛṣṇa, and one who is attracted by the transcendental qualities, na te yamaṁ pāśa bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān. You are assured that they will never be touched by Yamarāja or his assistants, tad-bhaṭān. Na te yamaṁ pāśa bhṛtaś ca tad-bhaṭān svapne 'pi paśyanti. Not even dream they can see that, "The Yamarāja's assistants are coming to take me." It is so much assured.

All right. So have little kīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

So some gentlemen were coming, and ladies. I think they are not prepared to hear these things. If you talk that, "You are God, I am God," then they will like it. As soon as the real process of self-realization, God-realization, is put before them, they are not agreeing.

Yamunā: Guru Mahārāja, what chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was . . . (indistinct) . . . from?

Prabhupāda: This is Sixth Canto, First Chapter. This is also one part of tapasya, to come early in the morning. So they want everything very cheap. That is the falldown of India's position. So, Mr. Pandiya?

Mr. Pandiya: Yes, sir.

Prabhupāda: What is your question, you can ask now.

Mr. Pandiya: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: God, you know the common definition is "God is all-powerful." Mr. Marwar? God is all-powerful.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That all-powerful . . . now let us come to our own concept of all-powerfulness. We consider a rich man powerful, a influential man powerful. Then a strong man powerful, a man of knowledge powerful. A man that is very beautiful, he is also powerful, or a woman is beautiful, she is powerful—she attracts so many. In this way, when all the six opulences are together in fullness, he is God. Is it clear?

Mr. Pandiya: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: He is God. God means nobody can be richer than Him, nobody can be stronger than Him, nobody can be more beautiful than Him, nobody can be wiser than Him and nobody can be influential than Him. That is God. When you find somebody that, "Here is the richest man in the whole universe or in the whole creation. Here is the most beautiful man in the whole universe," in this way, when you compare the six opulences, then that you will find in Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was present He exhibited this practically. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: To nirguna ka artha hota hai, jo bhautik guna se . . . idhar jo guna hai, sattva, raja, tama guna . . . ye guna nahi hai Bhagavan me. (The meaning of nirguna is . . . the material qualities which are there here . . . sattva, raja and tama . . . these qualities are not present in God.) Bhagavān is transcendental, above this universe. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: trai-guṇya-viṣayā vedā nistrai-guṇyo bhavārjuna (BG 2.45). So that nistrai-guṇya means nirguṇa. Bhagavan ka kuch guna hai hi nahi. (God does not have any qualities at all.) He has no qualities—this is nonsense. When one is powerful, all-powerful, how he can think of that He has no good qualities? Is it possible to think like that? That means He has no material qualities. When there is nirviśeṣa, when there are such description, "The Absolute Truth has no form," that means He has no material form.

As soon as there is question of form, we think of form like you have got a form, I have got a form, he has got a form. Immediately we think of form like that. When Veda says: "God is formless," that means He is not under the conception of form which you can conceive. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). So his form, His form is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā, that aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti (Bs. 5.32).

He has got form, but every part of His limb has got the power of other limbs. Just like I can see with the eyes only, but Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, can see with His fingers. I can eat with my tongue, with my mouth, but Kṛṣṇa can see (eat) by seeing, by eyes. Therefore His form is not exactly like your form.

And that is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā ma . . . (BG 9.11): "Because they see Me as a human being, they commit mistake, and they say, 'How it can be?' " Just like Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "How can I believe that You delivered the yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god?" Arjuna was taking the position of ordinary man. He is therefore questioning that, "How can I believe? Kṛṣṇa said that, 'I told this Bhagavad-gītā yoga millions of years ago to the sun-god.' "

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

(BG 4.1)

Naturally, if I say that thirty thousand years ago I was speaking with (indistinct). You see? But similarly, Kṛṣṇa was supposed that . . . Arjuna, that "How is that? Kṛṣṇa says that so many millions of years He first of all spoke this Bhagavad-gītā yoga to the sun-god?" So he becomes doubtful. So "How can I believe that?" And that answer is there that, "Both you and Me had many, many times birth. You have forgotten; I have not forgotten." So therefore His body is not like Arjuna's body. He becomes formless. He appears.

Because our form . . . we have got this form in our previous form, body, we are existing. because we are eternal. But we don't remember. We don't remember what I was in my previous life. So this form is distinct . . . Kṛṣṇa's form is distinct from this form. He hasn't got a form like this useless form. Therefore He is formless. Not that He hasn't got form. His form is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). His form is eternal, sat; cit, full of knowledge; and blissful. Our this form is not blissful. Why you are covering the body? Because it is painful. Unless . . . what is the use of covering? Similarly, during summer season we have to take out all this . . .

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Due to this form you are always in suffering. Adyātmika ādibhautika. But because they are in māyā they are thinking they are happy. So Kṛṣṇa's form is not like that. He is always ānandamāyā. We see Kṛṣṇa's form in a picture. He is always happy. Therefore His form is not like our form. Therefore indirectly it is said "formless." His qualities are not exactly like our qualities; therefore He is called nirguṇa. Apāṇi pāda javano grahītā. Just like Veda says that He has no hands, no legs, but still He accepts the sacrifices which you offer Him.

How He accepts? Paśyaty acakṣuḥ (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 3.19). He has no eyes, but He sees everything. How you can adjust it? Two contradicting things. He has no eyes, but He sees. Upadraṣṭā anumantā (BG 13.23). So these words are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Your conception of eye, that if God has no eye, then how He can see? Is it not the next question? But He sees. That means He has eyes which is not exactly this eyes. Therefore you can say He has no eye.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So another place you will find, acakṣuḥ. But here it is said that He has got thousands of eyes. So how you can adjust? That means His eyes are not exactly like our eyes. I cannot see if this room is dark—so much defective are my eyes. But His eyes are not like that. Even there is darkness or light, He can see.

Guest: He has . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, He has got variety. In the Brahma-saṁhitā also it is said, advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33).

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ananta-rūpa. Just like Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, showed His viśva-rūpa. So ananta, cakṣur ananta . . . Mukh, ananta, sab ananta hai. To isi prakar Bhagavan ka sab ananta hote huye hi bhi ek hai. (Face, unlimited, everything is unlimited. So in this way, everything about God is unlimited, yet He is one.) So your question is clear? Yes. He has got eyes, He has got form, He has got qualities—but not exactly the qualities which you have got, the form which you have got, the eyes which you have got. No. Then it will be avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). As soon as we think that, "Kṛṣṇa is like me. He has got a body like me," that is mūḍhā, gadā. That is the conclusion of the rascals. That is not the conclusion of a man who is in knowledge.

So these nirākāra vādīs, they are . . . they cannot think of that there cannot . . . there can be any eye which can act from Vaikuṇṭha, which we cannot ascertain how far it is, still you can keep traveling. We can simply think of that, "I can see three yards; therefore Kṛṣṇa can see also three yards." But the actual fact is Kṛṣṇa can see you from any distant place. Sarvata pāṇi pādas . . . sarvato. He has got eyes everywhere. So that eyes is not exactly your eyes. Therefore it is called apāṇi acakṣur. Acakṣur means His eyes are not like your eyes.

So as soon as we consider, "Kṛṣṇa like me. Kṛṣṇa like me . . ." That is natural for a foolish person. That is the first consideration. Because they cannot adjust that God can have eyes different from me, therefore they take nirviśeṣa, nirākāra. Nirākāra means He has no form, He has no eyes, no leg. If I say that God has no leg, no eyes, it is defaming. He has got the brilliant eyes. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Here is one of the eyes of Kṛṣṇa: the sun. You see? When as soon as they declare "God has no eyes," if we take in that way that we cannot see, He has no eyes, then it is blaspheme. Boliye. (Tell me.)

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Who says? Who says?

Guest: Others.

Prabhupāda: Who says?

Guest: (indistinct) . . . in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: What does it say?

Guest: He says that the kingdom of God is within.

Prabhupāda: Not without?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Then why stressing within?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Then why you are stressing on the point "within"? He is without. Without; within also. That is God. That Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29): "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the . . . everything," without also. Antar-bahiḥ. So He is both inside and outside. Why you are stressing on inside only? One-sided.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Why? Why not outside? Suppose if one cannot begin from inside, then his beginning is not substantial? If it says by Kṛṣṇa Himself that sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), "I am the proprietor of all planets," so if I say, "This planet is Kṛṣṇa's property," what is the wrong there? What is the wrong? Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhir prakṛti me . . . bhinna me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4): "This earth, water, fire, everything, is My energy." So if I say: "This water is Kṛṣṇa's, the fire is Kṛṣṇa's," what is the wrong there?

Guest: What is the light . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is the light? It is common sense. You see water. Kṛṣṇa says: "It is Mine." And if I say: "The water is Kṛṣṇa's," what is the wrong there? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "This bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, this bhūmir, this pṛthvī, is Mine." So if I say that "Land is Kṛṣṇa's," then what is wrong there? Then why should I go to inside? Outside I see the Kṛṣṇa's property. Why you bother for inside? Inside is very difficult to understand, but outside I can see directly.

But I see it, "Oh, it is mine. It is my land. It is my house. It is my property." Therefore that is wrong. As soon as you see "It is Kṛṣṇa's," that is perfect knowledge. Why you bother about inside? Why don't you see outside? This outside, whose property it is? Kṛṣṇa has simply hidden Himself inside and He is not outside? Inside He is also. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). That's nice. But why not outside? Then what is this outside? That is also claimed by Kṛṣṇa, "It is Mine."

So inside and outside you have to see. Any man can see outside. Any child, if I say, if I teach a child, "Well, this everything you see, it is Kṛṣṇa's," what is the wrong there? This tape recorder is Kṛṣṇa's, this microphone is Kṛṣṇa's, this fire is Kṛṣṇa's. What is the wrong there? Kṛṣṇa has kindly given me. So I should feel obliged, "Kṛṣṇa, You are so kind that You have given this fire so I am not suffering." Is that not Kṛṣṇa consciousness? We want to teach that. Not a bogus thing, "I am seeing within Kṛṣṇa." Why not outside? What is the wrong there? Tell me what is. Is it clear or not? If you have doubt, you go on questioning.

Guest: There should be easier process.

Prabhupāda: This is easier process. "This fire belongs to Kṛṣṇa. He has kindly given me, prasādam." This is not easier? Which is easier?

Guest: That is a particular kind of approach of . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh? It is not a fact?

Guest: It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: But it is not easier? If you teach one child that "If you meditate upon Kṛṣṇa within," that is easier? Or if you say that "The fire which you are cooking on, this is Kṛṣṇa's"? Which is easier? So why you become more than child? You should remain always child, then you will get knowledge, real knowledge. That is the mistake, "I am now grown up. I cannot accept as child." What is the difference between child?

A child also learns A-B-C-D and a grown-up man also uses A-B-C-D. In what sense he has grown up? The A-B-C-D is there. But when you are grown up can you give up A-B-C-D? Can you give up A-B-C-D when you are grown up? What do you mean by grown up? What is the difference between child and you? You also use A-B-C-D, he also uses A-B-C-D. But his knowledge of A-B-C-D is not so perfect as yours.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes, actually.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. We should remain child. But they are going to become Kṛṣṇa. That is nonsense. That is nonsense. If you remain a child of Kṛṣṇa, that is real sense. And as soon as I want to become Kṛṣṇa, that is rascaldom. Do you accept this or not?

Guest: No, no . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is rascaldom. We want to stop this rascaldom from this world. That is our movement. We want to remain a child, eternally, of Kṛṣṇa, protected by Him. That is our mission. Because you cannot become Kṛṣṇa at any time. How you can become? It is false endeavor to try to become Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva . . . what is that verse? Mamaivāṁśo jīva bhūtaḥ jīva loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7)? What is that? You know this verse? What is that? Just recite.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, you recite this verse. Nahi, thik hai. Bhagavan keh rahe hai. (It is all right. Kṛṣṇa is saying.) . . . Kṛṣṇa is saying that, "The living entities are My part and parcels eternally." Sanātanaḥ. So how you become equal to Kṛṣṇa? Part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. So if you are eternally part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, how you become equal with Kṛṣṇa? Simply by artificial endeavor you become one with Kṛṣṇa? That oneness realization means oneness of quality, not of quantity.

Guest: (indistinct) . . . when we merge into Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest: When you merge into Kṛṣṇa, all this merges into Kṛṣṇa, then...

Prabhupāda: Merges?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: First of all, you are part. Suppose you are part, a screw. You are set in the machine. Does it mean that you become machine? Does it mean that you become machine? You are a screw, you are a part of the machine. Now you are aloof from the machine. Now when somebody comes and he again screws, it will be machine. The machine's part is complete and you are also complete.

Guest: You mean the goal of . . . (indistinct) . . . to merge into that?

Prabhupāda: Merging means this. Just like the machine merges with the machine . . . a screw merges with the machine, but still a screw remains the screw and the machine remains the machine. But as soon as they are mixed together, the screw has value and the machine is complete. But not that the screw becomes the machine or the machine becomes screw. Is it not?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So merging means that the machine and the screw, some screw being slackened, it has fallen down on the ground, so, so long it is out of the touch of the machine it is useless. It has no value. So merging into the Supreme means your value is now useless without being merging into the Supreme. And as soon as you become adjusted with the Supreme, your original value is revived. That is real meaning of merging.

Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad-anantaram. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā. When one understands Kṛṣṇa in truth, tattvata—tattvata means in truth—then he is allowed to enter, or merge. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad-anantaram. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). That also, that entrance is allowed by bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. Tattvato jñātvā. You can understand Kṛṣṇa in truth by devotional service. Not by any other means.

Suppose you are a big lawyer. I want to make friendship with you, I want to know about your inside life. That I can know by knowing you completely, and by satisfying you some way or other, by serving you. Then you will say: "Oh, my dear sir, you want to know me? All right. This is this." So similarly, bhakti means service. You have to please Kṛṣṇa, then you can know Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is safe. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti pūrvakam (BG 10.10): "Those who are always engaged in love and affection," buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam, "I say unto Him, I give him intelligence." Not to ordinary persons.

Those who are actually engaged in the service of the Lord, he can get instruction from Kṛṣṇa. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā. And when he gets instruction fully, and he is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, viśate tad anantaram, then merging question comes. Without understanding . . . without clear understanding of Kṛṣṇa, where is the question of merging? Simply imagining that I am merge into Kṛṣṇa? No. That is not possible. You should know first of all what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. Then there is question of merging. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Therefore this merging process takes place after many, many births. Is it not? So we first of all have to understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. If he has vague idea of Kṛṣṇa, vague idea of . . . where is the question of merging?

Guest: And that we understand by service.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes, that service. Yes, service. Therefore only by devotional service you can understand Kṛṣṇa. There is no other way. That I have explained: bhaktyā. Bhaktyā, by bhakti, you can become perfect, you can understand Kṛṣṇa, God, and you can enter into the kingdom of God, make your life perfect. Only bhakti. There is no compromise. One who says that there are so many other ways, any way . . .

Especially this Ramakrishna Mission, that whatever way you accept, that is complete. No. Only. That is the recommended process. Bhaktyā māṁ abhijānāti yāvān . . . (BG 18.55). In the Vedas, in the Purāṇas, in the Bhāgavata, in . . . everywhere. That is the process. Simply by devotional service you can understand God. Otherwise, it is not possible.

So is it becoming clear?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Don't keep yourself in doubt. So long you are in doubt, you go on searching.

Guest: No, no, I . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. One difficulty is that we go to some saintly person, we hear, and we challenge, "Whether the saintly person corroborated my idea?" If he does not, then he's not good.

Guest: (laughs) not . . .

Prabhupāda: If it is against my conviction, "Oh, he is not good."

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking not of you. I know what you are doing. But we should corroborate. But as a preacher, we should simply speak the real truth. There is no question of corresponding with your ideas and another idea. No. We . . . whatever we know, whatever we have heard from our authorities, we'll speak. That's all. It may be somebody may know better than me. That is another thing. But I have to present what I have learned from the authority. That's all. And our authority is Kṛṣṇa, mainly.

Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upa . . . (CC Madhya 7.128) That is the spiritual master. Who does not add or subtract from the talks of Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. One who adds and subtracts according to his whims, he is not spiritual master. He is not bona fide spiritual master. "In my opinion . . ." "I give this interpretation . . ." He is not authorized. You are lawyer, you know better than me. In your law court you cannot change the law by your opinion. That is not possible.

Guest: You cannot . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But that is judged by the expert lawyer that, "Your interpretation is right." And when interpreted. Not ordinarily he interprets everything. When it is not distinct. The law point, when it is not distinct, then interpretation required. When it is distinct, is there any necessity of interpretation? It is clear. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says: "I am God. I am the Supreme." So how you can interpret that "No, no, not Kṛṣṇa. Something within Kṛṣṇa." Dr. Radhakrishnan says like that.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad . . . (BG 18.65).

Guest: That is something within Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: That is his idea, foolish idea. Because he is nirviśeṣavādi, he cannot accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person; therefore how he can avoid the version of Kṛṣṇa unless he pushes something extra out of his foolishness? And there are foolish persons, they'll say: "Oh, here is Dr. Radhakrishnan says." The intelligent person will see, "Why this foolish person introduces something else?" Here is the clear . . . Kṛṣṇa says: "Just become My devotee." And why he introduces somebody else? But less intelligent person cannot.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. If you have got Dr. Radhakrishnan's book, I will show you.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you go to the market you can purchase one copy of Bhagavad-gītā of Gita Press . . . (indistinct) . . . Gita Press. With Rāmānuja commentary.

Guest: Rāmānuja.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will help you.

Guest: That is English?

Prabhupāda: No, Sanskrit-Hindi. Yes. Rāmānuja-bhāṣya. Yes.

Guest: Rāmānuja means the old . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is that? Rāmānuja-bhāṣya? Oh, he has got this.

Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Revatīnandana: I was looking at the Gītā yesterday. There is a verse in the Sixth Chapter where Kṛṣṇa says that, "The yogī who knows that I and the Supersoul are one and always worships Me in that way . . . (indistinct) . . . I was wondering . . . it seems that when the yogī sees Lord Kṛṣṇa as Viṣṇu within the heart, that would appear that that is actually Bhagavān realization, because Lord Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa are the same, so it would be Bhagavān. So what is the distinction between Paramātmā realization and Bhagavān realization?

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān realization is complete. Paramātmā realization is partial.

Revatīnandana: Partial.

Prabhupāda: Partial.

Revatīnandana: Does that mean realizing knowledge without realizing it's coming from God?

Prabhupāda: No, the realization of existence of God everywhere, that is Paramātmā realization.

Revatīnandana: That is . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: That is called Paramātmā.

Prabhupāda: That is Paramātmā realization. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is situated in everyone's heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). He is within this universe, and He is also within the atom. That is Paramātmā realization. Everywhere, all-pervading. Akhilātma-bhūto. Goloka eva nivasaty (Bs. 5.37). Although He is situated in His Goloka Vṛndāvana-dhāma, He is everywhere. That everywhere aspect is Paramātmā. And that Goloka Vṛndāvana-sthiti is Bhagavān.

Devotee: When a person becomes Bhagavān realized, is Supersoul in his heart . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa in His Śyāmasundara form?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38).

Devotee: Also, I was told by one devotee, a person working for Lord Caitanya, Lord Caitanya will appear as Supersoul to him . . . (indistinct) . . . does this happen?

Prabhupāda: Well, Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference. If you see Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya the same, or Viṣṇu, it doesn't matter. Viṣṇu-tattva.

Revatīnandana: (indistinct) . . . Paramātmā realized in that way.

Prabhupāda: Yogīs, yogīs, they realize Paramātmā.

Revatīnandana: And they're completely satisfied in that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yogīs, they see Bhagavān as Paramātmā. Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. So all of them are on the platform, but realization different. Gradually develop. Brahman realization is also spiritual realization. Paramātmā realization also spiritual realization and Bhagavān realization is also spiritual. But the perfect spiritual realization is Bhagavān realization. It includes Paramātmā and Brahman, everything.

Revatīnandana: In the Bhāgavatam it tells about Bhīṣmadeva . . . Bhīṣma? He was worshiping Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, and when Kṛṣṇa came to . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa appeared in His four-armed form and then . . .

Prabhupāda: He knew there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and Nārāyaṇa, because he was in perfect knowledge. Why Bhīṣma? Every one of us. You do not know?

Revatīnandana: Bhīṣma was more attracted to the four-armed form.

Prabhupāda: That is, that is . . . some devotee is worshiper of Viṣṇu, some devotee is worshiper of Kṛṣṇa.

Revatīnandana: Their constitutional nature is that way.

Prabhupāda: That is rasa. He likes this form. Just like Hanumān said that, "Although I know Rāma and Kṛṣṇa are the same, still, I want to see Rāma." We also. Although we know Rāma and Kṛṣṇa the same, but we want to see Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Tulasidāsa said that he wants to see Rāma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is devotee's inclination. That inclination we must have. Just like the gopīs were searching Kṛṣṇa, and they saw that Kṛṣṇa sitting in one place as four-handed Nārāyaṇa. They offered respect, "Oh, He is Nārāyaṇa. We don't care for Him." (laughter)

"We don't care for Him." But they offered respect, "Oh, Nārāyaṇa, namaskara. But we want Kṛṣṇa." And when Rādhārāṇī came, Kṛṣṇa wanted to remain Nārāyaṇa, He could not. Rādhārāṇī's desire is so strong that Kṛṣṇa could not remain as Nārāyaṇa. He became Kṛṣṇa. You see?

So somebody is offering us a little piece of land. In Sak . . . Saket.

Guest: Saket. It is good quarter.

Prabhupāda: It is good quarter. So why not accept that land and immediately have our building.

Guest: (indistinct) . . . say about four o'clock . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yesterday there was a meeting. There is a hope of getting eighty-seven Life Member. So if you get some Life Members, say fifty, then we can have immediately one center.

Guest: But anyhow . . .

Prabhupāda: No, either we purchase or we invest . . . (indistinct) . . . but we require some Life Members.

Guest: (talks about making some appointment at between four and four-thirty)

Prabhupāda: But at that time somebody comes to see me. Somebody comes to see me and talk with me.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: All right. If you can make some Life Members.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You are trying for that?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All right. All right.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So Maharani has got many buildings also, I see.

Guest: (indistinct) . . . I can go to her secretary that . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: She's American.

Guest: She's American . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: She was born in India?

Guest: No, she was born in America. She was the daughter of (indistinct). Her father owned . . . (indistinct) . . . companies . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: She has culture. Just like there is . . . another American woman in Bombay, Mrs. Gwaliya.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. She's American, Gwaliya, a Parsee, a big businessman.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So you are Mr. Pandiya. You know him? He is also advocate. (Indian men converses)

Guest: You know me? You have seen my books? . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. In devotees' association everyone is blessed. Satāṁ prasaṅgāt mama virya saṁvido (SB 3.25.25). There is some enlightenment.

Guest: May I sing one bhajana?

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, Hare Kṛṣṇa. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest: Hare Kṛṣṇa I chant, but . . .

Prabhupāda: It may not be melodious, but we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Indian man starts singing Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, coughs and stops) All right, don't take . . . you want water? Eh? Give this glass. Come on.

(break) Nāmaiva eva kevalam kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). There is no mention that it should be chanted lowly. So how you can say it is gupta? It is not gupta.

Guest: Purāṇa says it is gupta.

Prabhupāda: This is also Purāṇa says. Especially it is harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21), it is not gupta. That is in the Kali-yuga it should be openly chanted, and we have to follow our predecessor, Haridāsa Ṭhākura, nāmācārya.

Guest: (indistinct) . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: When we chant, when we utter the bīja mantra, that we utter loudly. That is required. That is japa. So this mantra is mahā-mantra, and it should be chanted loudly, or as you like. There is no such restriction. Niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ (CC Antya 20.16) . . . (indistinct)

And we have to follow the great personalities. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was chanting very loudly—Caitanya Mahāprabhu chanted very loudly. So what more evidence you want? My Guru Mahārāja chanted loudly—we are chanting loudly. Whole business finished. (chuckles) Is that all right? Eh?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Our process is very easy. We have to see whether my Guru Mahārāja, his Guru Mahārāja has followed this. Then there will be no more doubt. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). We receive things by paramparā system. Mahājano yena gataḥ. Sādhu mārgānu-gamanam. We have to follow the footsteps of sādhu.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Even if I am not well conversant with the Vedas and Purāṇas, if I see that my spiritual master is doing that, that is sufficient.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa . . . we say karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakali visera bandha. They are all pots of poison. Karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa sakalī viṣera bāṅdha. You understand? All of them are pots of poison. Amṛta baliyā yebā khāya. One who accepts this viṣa bandha, this poison pot, as amṛta, as nectar, then what is the result? Nānā yoni brahman kare (Prema-bhakti-candrikā). The result is that he will continue with the . . .

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ah, that business will go on. Nānā yoni brahman kare kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. When there is question of various types of body, it may be I can get the body of hog, then I have to eat stool. By karma-kāṇḍa I become so much abominable, because nānā yoni brahman kare, there is no guarantee.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But he was the king; he had to perform this karma-kāṇḍa for the prajā. Yes. That is according to the Vedic principle. So karma-kāṇḍa, for ordinary man it is not condemned, but those who are in devotional service, they do not require the guidance of karma-kāṇḍa or jñāna-kāṇḍa. Therefore sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). All dharmas, they are in karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa. And bhakti is jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167).

anyābhilāṣitā śūnyaṁ

jñāna karmādy anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanam

(Brs. 1.1.11)

So bhakti is above karma-kāṇḍa and jñāna-kāṇḍa. Rather, bhakti should not be tinged or polluted by karma-kāṇḍa conception.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakti. Raso . . . (indistinct) . . . Bhagavan . . . raso . . . (indistinct) . . . similarly, bhagavān, nāma. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ (CC Madhya 17.133). Rasa-vigrahaḥ. Yes.

Revatīnandana: That is why Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "Give up all varieties of religiousness and just surrender to Me." All these other paths . . .

Prabhupāda: They are duality, karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-karma. Karmīs, they are after enjoying this world, and jñānīs, they are after renouncing this world. But you haven't got to enjoy Kṛṣṇa's property, neither you have to renounce Kṛṣṇa's . . . the property is not yours, then how you can renounce?

What is the meaning of your renouncement? If the property is not yours, then how you can accept it as your enjoyable thing? That is karma-kāṇḍa. And how you can reject it? That is jnana-kāṇḍa. So the best thing is to know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and it should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, karma-kāṇḍa is the lowest thing. When they are fully under the concept of this body, that is karma-kāṇḍa. And when one is transferred to the mental platform, that is jnana-kāṇḍa. And when he's transferred to the spiritual platform, that is bhakti. That is bhakti.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Thik hai, ap jo samjhe hai usko boliye, isme koi dosh nahi hai par ye isko bhi samajh lijiye. Ye bhakti jo hai, wo sabka upar. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ap aiye kripa karke, dekhiye sab. Ye sab karma kanda, jnana kanda, sab chodh ke bilkul bhakti kanda ko le liye . . . (indistinct) . . . inka vyavahar . . . (indistinct) . . . to bhakti kanda aisi chiz hai, yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akinchana sarvair gunais tatra. Anek janma karma kanda karke, jnana kanda vichar karke jo chiz yad nahi hota hai, keval matra bhakti se man . . . wahi to hum sabere padh rahe - kevalaya bhaktya. Antar bahih - inside and outside. Namo apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthām gato 'pi vā yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam sah bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. Ye jo keval abhyantara ke liye sab, bahya . . . (indistinct) . . . phir aiyega. (It's all right, you discuss whatever you have understood, there is nothing wrong in it but you also understand that bhakti is the topmost. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Please come and see everything. All of them have completely given up this karma kanda, jnana kanda and taken up bhakti kanda . . . (indistinct) . . . their behaviour . . . (indistinct) . . . so bhakti kanda is such a thing, yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate (SB 5.8.12). Through bhakti, one can understand many things which are not possible by practicing karma kanda or jnana kanda for many lifetimes. That is what we were reading in the morning today - kevalayā bhaktyā (SB 6.1.15). Antar bahih—inside and outside. Namo apavitraḥ pavitro vā sarvāvasthām gato 'pi vā yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam sah bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. This is all for internal . . . (indistinct) . . . please come again.) (break) (end)