741015 - Lecture SB 01.08.35 - Mayapur

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His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

741015SB-MAYAPUR - October 15, 1974 - 41:38 Minutes

Nitāi: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

bhave 'smin (break)


"(And yet others say that You appeared to) ...rejuvenate the devotional service of hearing, remembering, worshiping and so on, in order that the conditioned souls suffering from material pangs might take advantage and gain liberation."


bhave 'smin kliśyamānānām
bhave 'smin kliśyamānānām
kariṣyann iti kecana
(SB 1.8.35)

This is a very important verse. Bhave asmin. Asmin means "this," and bhave, "the material world." Bhava means to grow; means... Grow means which has taken birth. That requires grow. In the material world, there are six kinds of changes: first of all birth, then grow, then stay for some time, then producing some by-product, then diminishing, dwindling, and then vanish. These are the six kinds of changes. Just like this body: It has taken birth at a certain date, and it has grown, that the child is growing. And growing, it will stay; not immediately vanish. It will stay. And while staying, it will create some by-product. From this body, so many sons and daughters will come, by-product. Even tree, they produce also. Everyone. Then it becomes old, no more strength, and when it is very old, finish. These are called ṣaḍ-vikāra. That is on account of this body.

So after finishing this body, then I am not finished; I am there. I am, this gross body, finished, but I am within this subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. The subtle body carries me to another gross body. These so-called scientists, medical men, they cannot see the subtle body, although one has to accept. Just like I have got mind; you have got mind—but I cannot see your mind; you cannot see my mind. I have got intelligence; you have got intelligence. Everyone knows. But you cannot see my intelligence; I cannot see your intelligence. They are very subtle. So, and beyond that, the spirit soul is still subtle, so minute quantity. So what these material scientists will see? They cannot see the mind, intelligence, ego, and what to speak of the soul. Therefore they say, "This body is everything, and there is nothing more." But actually that is not the fact. The fact is that the spirit soul is very, very small. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 5.9). Keśāgra, the tip of the hair, agra-bhāga, front portion, front portion, śata-bhāgasya, you divide into... Can you do it? Take one hair and divide into hundred parts? No, that is not possible. But if... The direction is there. If you can, you can do it. Śata-bhāgasya. Then again take one part of that śata-bhāga, one hundredth part, again make it hundred parts.

So it is not possible; impossible by the so-called scientists. But how to learn? Then you have to learn from the authority, "It is like this," that much. It is not under your experimental knowledge. That is not possible. Because your knowledge is so imperfect, you cannot deal with these things. But these rascals, they think... Because they cannot deal with these things, they think that the matter is the cause of life. That's all—matter, material. But that is... They have not been able to do so. Take matter in the laboratory, chemicals, and produce a small insect with hands and legs and eyes. We see every night, a small, very, very small, but still, it has got hands, legs and everything, eyes. Otherwise how they are coming to the light? Very small.

So... So we are getting bhava, bhava from that small insect up to the Brahmā. Ābrahma-bhuvana-stambha, ābrahma stambha. Everyone. That is called bhava. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and we are finishing one body, entering another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Kṛṣṇa says. Either you have to reject Kṛṣṇa's word or you have to reject all this so-called scientific research. But we have... We are pledged to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We cannot reject Kṛṣṇa's word. So it is accepted that tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that you have to accept another body. Everyone has to accept. Now, He does not say that "After this body, the next change will be this body." He does not say. He does not say. So... Because that will depend, as it is said here, avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. Avidyā. The... Every living entity is within this material world under avidyā. Avidyā-karma-saṁjñānyā tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate.

There are many potencies of God, Kṛṣṇa. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8, CC Madhya 13.65, purport). Many millions. So they have been summarized into three. What is that? The external potency, internal potency, two, and third, marginal potency. The marginal potency and internal potency, they are of the same quality. There are same quality. And there is another potency, that is called external potency. What is that external potency? Now, avidyā-karma-saṁjñānyā tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā (CC Madhya 6.154). Viṣṇu-śakti, the Lord's potency, is parā. That is spiritual. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. And... Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā... Viṣṇu-śakti. And kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā. And kṣetrajñāḥ, the living entities... The kṣetrajña is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetram ity abhidhīyate. And one who knows this kṣetra... Kṣetrajña ity abhidhīyate. These are stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So the living entity is kṣetrajña. So kṣetrajña is also parā. But besides these two śakti, there is another, tṛtīyā śakti, which is avidyā, everything in ignorance.

Here in this material world everyone is in ignorance—everyone, even Brahmā. Brahmā, he was ignorant, but he was given knowledge by Kṛṣṇa. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Ādi-kavi means Brahmā. So the Vedic knowledge, tene brahma... Brahma means this Vedic knowledge, śabda-brahman. So there was one creature, Brahmā only, but he was educated. How he was educated? Hṛdā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Because at that time there was no other way but to transfer the knowledge from within. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te (BG 10.10). That is caitya-guru, Kṛṣṇa, Paramātmā. So Brahmā was also educated. That means beginning from Brahmā down to the small insect, they are all in ignorance, all fools and rascals. That is the constitutional position. Nobody should be proud of his knowledge. Everyone is a rascal. Everyone. Here it is said, kliśyamānānām avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. So Brahmā is desiring that "If I can get the opportunity, the post of Brahmā, and I can create a big universe..." He was also thinking like that. And the small insects, it is also thinking like that—"If I can create a small hole within the room, then I can live very peacefully and eat." The same propensity. As Brahmā is thinking to create an universe, you are thinking to create an skyscraper building, the ant is thinking to create a hole within the room—the quality of the work is the same.

But because we are fools, that these things are material... It will not stay. On account of ignorance, we are thinking that "This will be very nice," "This will be very nice," "This will be very nice." Kāma-karmabhiḥ, creating some kāma, desire, and working in that way. Therefore kliśyanti. To become Brahmā, that is not very easy thing. Brahmā is such a big post, very qualified, highly advanced in austerities, penance. He is given... He's also a living entity. Just like in your America, you are also a citizen, and President Nixon or Ford, he's also citizen. But by dint of his ardent labor and diplomacy, this way, tha..., he has captured that post. But he's an ordinary citizen. Just like President Nixon: now he's dragged down; he's no more president. Ordinary citizen. Similarly, if you like you can also become Brahmā. Kāma-karmabhiḥ.

Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, brahma-janme nāhi mora āśa, kīṭa-janma hao yathā tuwā dāsa. This is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song, that "Let me become one insect where there is Your devotee, because if I fall down on the dust of the devotee, my life will be successful." Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, kīṭa-janma hao yathā tuwā dāsa, bahir-mukha brahma... Brahma-janma is not easy. It is very difficult. But if Brahmā is bahir-mukha—bahir-mukha means not devotee of Kṛṣṇa—it is possible. Because we are in ignorance, māyā, at any time we can forget Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we have to always be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so that we may not forget Kṛṣṇa. And that is stated here, śravaṇa-smaraṇa-arhaṇa. Śravaṇa means hearing, and smaraṇa means memorizing, and arhaṇa means worshiping the Deity. If you engage yourself always in this business...

Our..., all these centers are being opened only for this business—chanting, dancing, worshiping—so that we may not forget Kṛṣṇa. So sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). If we are always engaged in thinking of Kṛṣṇa, then there is chance at the end of life—ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). Then there is chance. Everything has to be practiced. Just like if you want to dance in the stage, so you have to perform many rehearsal, how to dance, how to dance, how to dance. Then, if you become expert dancer, then when you dance on the stage, you get acclaim: "Ah." (makes sound of applause:) "Pat, pat, pat, pat, pat. Very good dancer." But that "very good dancer," you cannot say, "I go immediately to the stage, and I become a good dancer." That is not possible. If one says, "No, no, no, I don't... I shall not attend the rehearsal. You give me the stage, I shall..." No, no. No director will allow him, that he's a rascal. He's a rascal. You cannot become all of a..., a nice dancer without practicing it.

So real purpose of life is ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante... (BG 8.6). If at the time of death you can remember, you can memorize Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Smaraṇa. So it has to be practiced. (aside:) Where...? You have got that? You could not? Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā (SB 2.4.18)? Kirāta.

Devotee: It's in the Second Canto, Fourth Chapter.

Prabhupāda: Ah, he knows. Second Canto, Fourth Chapter. So asmin bhave. This is the problem. These rascals, they do not care to understand. They are so absorbed in ignorance. Just like some of the, what is called, smugglers. Smugglers, they go on with their work. They do not know... Some of them know also that "We'll be punished. We'll be arrested." Still, they go on. That is the difficulty. A thief knows that "If I am arrested for these criminal acts, I'll be punished." He knows it. And perhaps he has been punished several times. But still, he commits the same thing. Still, he steals. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30).

So why? Ignorance. Ignorance. So therefore this very word is used, avidyā. He never thinks... He is so much absorbed in ignorance that he has no time to think that "Repeatedly I am stealing, and repeatedly I am arrested, and I am punished, I sent to jail. Why I am doing this?" Result is not very good. Just like a person too much sexually inclined, he suffers in so many venereal diseases, undergoes operation, and still, he goes to prostitute, again does the same thing. This is avaidha-strī-saṅga, illegitimate. And legitimate also. After sex, the woman is pregnant, and she has to suffer for ten months. And at the time of delivery it is very dangerous sometimes. And the man also, after he gets the child, he has to take care of the child. He has to work hard to give education. This is proper, proper sex. The proper sex, there are so many difficulties. And what is the..., what to speak of the improper sex? You kill the child. You take contraceptive. You make this; you make that.

Therefore śāstra says, bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. After sex life, oh, there are so many troubles, bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ, simply trouble. Either legitimate or illegitimate, simply trouble. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā. But because he is a rascal, ignorant, he's not satisfied; again does the same thing. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Again. This is called bhava-roga. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham, kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham (SB 7.9.45). Iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Simply trouble. Therefore Vedic civilization is to train these small boys to remain brahmacārī, not to take trouble. But if one is unable, he's allowed. So on being trained up in the beginning as brahmacārī, he does not stay for many years in the family life. He retires very soon and becomes vānaprastha, then sannyāsa. That is the training.

So here it is said, kliśyamānānām. They are... Everyone is suffering—birds, beasts, animal and trees, plants, and even Brahmā, even Indra. Indra is also not safe. He is always anxious: "Nobody, competitor, may not come." So here in this material world everyone is kliśyamāna, suffering, at least with anxiety. Sadā samudvigna, asad-grahāt. Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Everyone in this material world—always anxiety. Kliśyamānānām. Therefore it is called... Asmin bhave kliśyamānānām. Why kliśyamānānām? Why they are always suffering in anxiety? Avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. Because they are rascals. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is giving so much stress, "You rascal, give up all this business. You surrender unto Me," because everyone is rascal. That is Kṛṣṇa's very good mercy. He's the supreme father. Therefore directly He says that sarva-guhyatama: "This is the most confidential knowledge I am giving you: Rascal, you give up everything and simply surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Yes. That is required.

So Kuntī says that "You have come to teach rascals like this and engage them in this business: śravaṇa, smaraṇa, arhaṇam." Śravaṇa. Because this is bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). But they are so rascals, as soon as they, the Vaiṣṇavas, begin, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, the rascal svāmī will say, "No, any name śravaṇa will do. Any name. Why Viṣṇu? Oh, Kālī." You know. In Bengal there is a party, kālī-kīrtana. What is this nonsense, kālī-kīrtana? In the śāstra there is no such thing as kālī-kīrtana. Kīrtana means śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, viṣṇu-kīrtana. But these rascals have discovered, because they are very fertile brain and they can discover so many things. Yata mata tata patha: "I have discovered this." What is this? Kālī-kīrtana, durgā-kīrtana. So... But śāstra does not say. Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not say. Śāstra says, harer nāma: the holy name of Hari, Kṛṣṇa, not any other name. Not any other name.

So śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). When there is question of śravaṇam, arhaṇam and..., these things are of Viṣṇu. Where is that verse? Yat śravaṇaṁ yat kīrtanam...? So this... Yes. So this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam has been described by Śukadeva Gosvāmī in Canto Second, Chapter Four, very nicely. He says,

yat-kīrtanaṁ yat-smaraṇaṁ yad-īkṣaṇaṁ
yad-vandanaṁ yac-chravaṇaṁ yad-arhaṇam
lokasya sadyo vidhunoti kalmaṣaṁ
tasmai subhadra-śravase namo namaḥ
(SB 2.4.15)

Very nicely explained. Śukadeva Gosvāmī, before speaking Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he's offering his obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. What is that? "I offer my obeisances," tasmai, "unto Him." Subhadra-śravase: "Simply hearing of Him is subhadra." Not abhadra; subhadra. Subhadra-śravase namo namaḥ. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī—yat-kīrtanaṁ yat-smaraṇam. Either you glorify Kṛṣṇa... There are so many glorification. The whole Bhāgavata is glorification. So you have got... This is... This is the glorification by Śukadeva Gosvāmī: yat-kīrtanaṁ yat-smaraṇam. Either you glorify or simply you meditate upon Him... Yat-smaraṇam. Yad-īkṣaṇam. Simply if you sit down in front of the Deity and go on seeing, bās, do nothing, simply see: "How nicely dressed is Kṛṣṇa. How nicely dressed is Rādhārāṇī," simply if you see, it is said, yad-īkṣaṇam. Yad-īkṣaṇam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam (SB 7.5.23), if you have no capacity to chant or if you have no such fixed-up mind—your mind is so disturbing that you cannot fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa—then the chance is given: "Here is Deity. You simply see." Simply see. And if you are engaged in the service, there is good chance of seeing always, twenty-four hours. While you are cleansing the floor of the temple or the room, you are seeing. You are dressing—you are seeing. You are bathing—you are seeing. You are offering food—you are seeing. This is the process.

So people are so rascal, they do not come even to see. They are so fallen down. They do not come. "Oh, what is this, Deity worship? Idol worship. Idol worship." They will worship Gandhi's statue and this statue, that statue, but when they are asked that "Come here and see the Deity worship nicely," "No, this is idol worship." We... I have seen in Calcutta that Sir Asutosh Mukherjee's statue there is in the Chowringhee Square. So in the morning, these ordinary sweepers, they'll cleanse the statue with their brush, because whole year, the crows have passed stool on the face. So it has become a very solid stool, fixed up. So... I have seen it, brushing like this. This is their arcanam. This is allowed. And if you worship the Deity, bathe the Deity, this is idol worship. And that Municipal brush, sweeping brush, and on the face of Sir Asutosh Mukherjee brushing, that is very good. Just see how much rascal they are. In the morning this business is done. And in the evening all big, big men will come and flower him, garland him, full of garlands. And after evening they'll go away, and again, next morning, the crows will pass stool. That kind of worship is accepted. And if we install Deity of Kṛṣṇa and worship Him nicely—"These are for the fools and rascals, less intelligent." And he's very intelligent. This is going on all over the world. They are worshiping Napoleon. They are worshiping... I have seen in Paris, Napoleon's statue: "France and Napoleon, one." I asked them, "Where is your Napoleon? France is there, but where is your Napoleon?"

So these things are going on all over the world. Why? Now, avidyā. The disease is avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. So people are so much embarrassed with this avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. And to educate them, to rescue them from these clutches of avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ, is this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). That is the sum and substance. So that is explained in this verse also by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, yat-kīrtanaṁ yat-smaraṇaṁ yad-īkṣaṇam. Kīrtanaṁ smaraṇam, and if you are unable to do that... Just like these children. They cannot meditate, but simply they sit down and see Kṛṣṇa: "Here is Kṛṣṇa. Here is Rādhārāṇī." That is also. A small child, he also gets the benefit. An animal gets the benefit—simply by seeing. Yad-vandanam. And if you are still more intelligent, then offer prayer. Either of these: yad-vandanaṁ yac-chravaṇaṁ yad-arhaṇam. The similar parallels, the arhaṇam. If you are expert, trained by your spiritual master how to worship, that is arhaṇam. And śravaṇam, the same thing. Yad-vandanam, offering prayers. Some way or other...

Therefore I say that the Christian, they're also Vaiṣṇava; the Muslim, they're also Vaiṣṇava, very, mean, lower stage, because they're offering prayer. Yad-vandanam. They offer prayer: "O God, give us our daily bread." They do not know very much, but the beginning is there. Beginning is there, because they have approached... Catur-vidhā bhajanti māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. That going to the church or going to the mosque, that is also pious activities. One day they'll come out pure Vaiṣṇava. One day. But that beginning is good. But atheism—"Don't go to church. Don't go to temple. Don't go to mosque"—this propaganda is very, very dangerous to the human society. Something do. Try to understand. That education, that a child is sent to school, let him learn simply A-B-C-D—it doesn't matter—so one day, if he's interested, he may become very good scholar. But to give up religion altogether, secular, simply open factory, bolts and nuts, and work hard and drink and take meat... What is this civilization? What is this civilization? Therefore we are suffering. Again bhava.

Here it is said that avidyā-kāma-karmabhiḥ. By ignorance, they are thinking by opening factories they will be happy. That is avidyā. He does not know that this is ignorance. Why you should open factory? That is... This is called ugra-karma. There is no need of opening factory. You have got land. Here are so many lands. You produce your food grains. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). You eat sumptuously food grain, milk, and that will be available without any factory. The factory cannot produce milk or food grain. The present scarcity of foodstuff means everybody is engaged in the city, producing bolts and nuts. Who is producing food grain? This is the solution of economic problem. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Therefore we are trying to engage our men to produce their own food. Be self-sufficient so that these rascal may see that how one can live very peacefully, eating the food grains and milk, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our mission. We don't deny this food. They are after daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, but why daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not chief Nārāyaṇa, or the rich Nārāyaṇa? Everyone should be engaged—bhagavat-prasādam. We don't make any distinction, daridra-nārāyaṇa or rich Nārāyaṇa, dhanī-nārāyaṇa. Everyone, you come on, take prasādam.

So this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be very vigorously propagated all over the world. Simply by seeing the Deity, simply by joining Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam... Here it is said, yat-kīrtanam. The kīrtana word is first used. Simply by kīrtanam. Yat-kīrtanaṁ yat-smaraṇam. If you perform kīrtana, then you'll be able to think of Kṛṣṇa, that "I have danced two hours, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.' What is the meaning?" That is smaraṇa, again smaraṇa, "Kṛṣṇa." He may think that "Foolishly, I have chanted for two hours, 'Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa.' " That means again smaraṇam; Kṛṣṇa caught up. Then yad-īkṣaṇam. So just like people are purchasing our Kṛṣṇa book. Because Kṛṣṇa movement is going on, so they are purchasing out of curiosity: "What is this Kṛṣṇa? Let us see." Yad-īkṣaṇam. "Let us see the book." And immediately he will see the picture, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Yad-īkṣaṇam. And if they open the book, they'll see more. Yad-īkṣaṇam. Then there is vandanam. There are so many prayers glorifying Kṛṣṇa. Then śravaṇam. Others will hear. Somebody will read. Then if he's fortunate enough, he'll become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Yad-arhaṇam: he'll be engaged in the worshiping of Deity.

So lokasya sadyo vidhunoti kalmaṣam. These processes, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ van... (SB 7.5.23), so perfect that as soon as you take them—not all of them; either all of them or some of them or at least one of them—then what happens? Lokasya sadyo vidhunoti kalmaṣaṁ tasmai subhadra-śravase namo namaḥ: "I am offering worship to that Supreme Personality of Godhead. Simply by remembering Him, simply by glorifying Him, simply by seeing You, so many things happen." So Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the authority... He is one of the authority, Vaiyāsaki. Bali..., balir vaiyāsakiḥ. Out of twelve authorities, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is authority. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow the authority. So he says by..., simply by performing these processes, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, then what you are? Lokasya sadyo vidhunoti kalmaṣam (SB 2.4.15): "This material contamination will be washed off." Lokasya sadyaḥ. When washed off? Immediately, sir. Immediately. No waiting. Sadya. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)