740630 - Lecture BG 09.01-2 - Melbourne

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Bhagavad-gītā 9.1–2 Lecture, Melbourne, June 30, 1974
(please note: video of lecture is heavily edited)



740630BG-MELBOURNE - June 30, 1974 - 45:18 Minutes



Prabhupāda: Śrī-bhagavān uvāca.

Devotees: Śrī-bhagavān uvāca.

Prabhupāda:

idaṁ tu te guhyatamaṁ
pravakṣyāmy anasūyave
jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ
yaj jñātvā mokṣyase 'śubhāt
(BG 9.1)

I am speaking… (aside:) that child; disturbance …from Bhagavad-gītā, ninth chapter. Śrī-bhagavān uvāca. In every chapter you will find this word, śrī-bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān means the…

(children crying in background)

Devotee: Please take the children out.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhaga. Bhaga means "opulence," and vān means "one who possesses." So God means "who possesses all the opulences in fullness." He is called Bhagavān. The definition of God is "He is the richest, He is the strongest, He is the most beautiful, He is the wisest, He is the most renounced." In this way, you analyze. There are many rich men, but nobody can say that "I am the richest of all." That is not possible, because there is competition. If I am rich, you are richer than me, another richer than you, another richer than him. So nobody can say that "I am the richest of all." That only God can say. So in this way, where you find the Supreme, Supreme Being… The word God is defined in dictionary as the Supreme Being. What is that Supreme Being? The richest, the strongest, the most beautiful, the wisest, the most renounced—in this way.

So that Bhagavān, that Supreme Personality of Godhead, is speaking. Therefore, this knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā …Bhagavad-gītā means the knowledge given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. Not secondary knowledge; first-hand knowledge. So we have to receive first-hand perfect knowledge; then our life will be successful. Not defective knowledge. Knowledge received from a living being, as we are, that is imperfect; always imperfect—because we are deficient. We are deficient. Deficient means we commit mistake. Any big man you take, no big man can say that "I did not commit any mistake in my life." That is not possible. He must commit. He is illusioned; he takes one thing for another. Just like big, big men nowadays at the present civilization, these all of them are accepting this body, "I am this body": "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Canadian," "I am this, white," "I am black." But no. I am not this body. This is called illusion. So everyone commits mistake, everyone is illusioned, and everyone, because he has got imperfectness and still he wants to teach, therefore he is a cheater. With imperfectness you cannot teach. You cannot teach when so long you say "perhaps," "it may be." So what is this knowledge? That means you do not know. "Perhaps," that means you do not know. "Maybe"– suggestion. All these theories, big, big theories—politician, scientist, philosopher—they simply say "perhaps," "maybe," "missing link." (laughter) This is not knowledge. Therefore we are reading Bhagavad-gītā: śrī-bhagavān uvāca. There is no imperfectness.

(Video 05:26)

Complete knowledge. So if you read Bhagavad-gītā, you get complete knowledge. So what Bhagavān says?

idaṁ tu te guhyatamaṁ
pravakṣyāmy anasūyave
(BG 9.1)

Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, is teaching Arjuna. So in the ninth chapter He says, "My dear Arjuna, I am now speaking to you the most confidential knowledge,"guhyatamaṁ. Tamaṁ means superlative. Positive, comparative and superlative. In Sanskrit, tara-tama. Tara is comparative, and tama means superlative. So here Bhagavān says, the perfect Personality of Godhead says, idaṁ tu te guhyatamaṁ pravakṣyāmy: "Now I am speaking to you the most confidential knowledge."Jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ. The knowledge is with full knowledge, not that imagination. Jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ. Vijñāna means "science," "practical demonstration." So jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ yaj jñātvā. If you learn this knowledge, yaj jñātvā mokṣyase 'śubhāt. Aśubhāt. Mokṣyase means you get liberation, and aśubhāt means "inauspicity." Inauspicity.

So our present life, at the present moment, present life means so long we possess this material body, it is full of inauspicity. Mokṣyase aśubhāt. Aśubhāt means inauspicity. So what is that confidential knowledge? Now Kṛṣṇa says, again stressing,

rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ
pavitram idam uttamam
(BG 9.2)

This confidential knowledge is rāja-vidyā. Rāja means…Rāja means "king," or "royal." Just like we have got experience, we have got palaces or houses. But when we come to the royal palace, that is the best. In a city, of course, nowadays the royal palaces are abolished, but still somewhere, just like in London we have seen the Buckingham Palace. That is the best house in London. Similarly, rāja-vidyā. There are different types of education and learning, but this knowledge which Kṛṣṇa is now imparting to Arjuna, He says it is rāja-vidyā. Rāja-vidyā means the king of all education.

There are education, different types of education, different departmental education, but this is the best of the royal education. Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ. And most confidential. It cannot be understood by ordinary person. Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ pavitram. Why it is… (break) …so confidential and it is called rāja-vidyā, the king of knowledge? Pavitram. Pavitram means the purest; not contaminated. Not contaminated means not material knowledge. It is spiritual knowledge. Material knowledge is contaminated. There are three qualities in the material world: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa—goodness, passion and ignorance. So it is above; above goodness. Passion is condemned, ignorance is condemned, even this material so-called goodness, that is also condemned. Above.

rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ
pavitram idam uttamam
(BG 9.2)

Uttamam means "without any darkness." Tama means "darkness" and ut means "above." Uttamam.

rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ
pavitram idam uttamam
pratyakṣāvagamaṁ
(BG 9.2)

Now, you take some knowledge. Suppose you are going to be cured from some disease. So doctor is giving you medicine and treatment. So pratyakṣāvagamaṁ: it is not theoretical. You understand that your fever is diminishing, you are getting strength. Then it is pratyakṣāvagamaṁ, directly perceived. Not that you go to a doctor, and he gives you medicine, and you do not understand whether you are being cured or you are in the same position. No. That is not. You will feel. Another example is just like if you eat, then you will feel pleasure, strength, satisfaction. Not that you are going to be eating continually, but… No such thing. No. That will be understood automatically. Similarly, pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ. Dharma means religion. Religion… Don’t understand religion which is mentioned in the English dictionary as a kind of faith. No. It is not faith; it is fact.

Dharma means fact. Dharma is not imagination, or religion does not mean something imagined: "I imagine something; you imagine something." Now there are so many rascals, they say you can manufacture your own dharma, or religious system. No. That is rascaldom. You cannot do it. Dharma, I have several times explained, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). This bhagavān, bhāgavata-dharma…Dharma means—religious faith means—the course, the orders given by God. This is the shortest description. As in the state, in the government, the king or the legislative assembly, they…, it can give laws. You cannot manufacture laws at your home. If you say that "I have manufactured my own law," that will not be accepted. Similarly, you cannot manufacture a kind of dharma, or faith. No. Dharma means—that is the description of the Vedic literature—dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma, or the system of religion, can be given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Unfortunately, we do not know who is the Personality of Godhead and what is His order and what is His law. We do not know. Every one of us in the darkness. That kind of knowledge is not being described. Perfect knowledge: uttamam. Uttamam means "beyond darkness." Tama means "darkness" and ut means "transcendental," uttamam. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ. And if you execute, you try to follow this system of religion, then you will directly understand: Yes, you are making progress. Directly. Just like these boys and girls, and you also join, dancing. This is directly connecting God. Otherwise they are not dogs, that they are..., I have given some bribe, and they are dancing. No. They are feeling God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore they are dancing. It is not that I have come from a foreign country and I am giving bribe, and they are dancing like a dog. No. This is pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ, directly perceiving the presence of God.

Therefore, it is called… This system, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness system… Because in this age we are so fallen. We cannot undergo severe penances, austerities, go to the Himalaya, go to the forest, and press your nose for so many years. It is not possible. This is not possible. But this dharma, this system of God realization, is so nice, you have seen on the stage—a small child is also dancing. Because he is not artificially trained up, but he is dancing because it is directly connecting with God consciousness. Therefore it is called pratyakṣāvagamaṁ, and su-sukhaṁ. Su-sukhaṁ means "very happily done," "not very difficult."Su means "very nice" and sukhaṁ means "happiness." So, so long they are dancing, they are feeling happiness, su-sukhaṁ, very easy, and directly perceived connection with God. This is called

pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ
su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam
(BG 9.2)

To execute this kind of religious system is very, very nice. Now you chant, you dance and take prasādam. There is no question of becoming a very highly learned person, very expert in philosophy, and so on, so on, big, big words. But that will not help you. In this age people are so fallen that they cannot accept any philosophy or any high talk. That is not possible. But by the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whose statue is standing before you, He has given us such a nice thing, this saṅkīrtana movement, that anyone can join, and anyone can immediately perceive what is God consciousness. That is His excellence. What is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is practically demonstrated by the dealings, by the behavior, of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore He is called Mahā-vadanyāyāvatāra.

namo mahā-vadānyāya
kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te
kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-
nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ
(CC Madhya 19.53)

Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, when he met Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Prayāg… There is a place, holy place in India, which is called Prayāga. So Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after accepting His renounced order of sannyāsa, He went to Prayāga and other holy places. So Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was minister of the government, but he gave up everything and joined this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So when he first met, and he offered this verse, namo mahā-vadānyāya. Vadānyāya means "the most magnanimous." There are many incarnation of God, but Rūpa Gosvāmī said, "Now this incarnation of God, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is most magnanimous."Namo mahā-vadānyāya. Why magnanimous? Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "You are delivering Kṛṣṇa immediately by Your this saṅkīrtana movement."

To understand Kṛṣṇa is very difficult job. Kṛṣṇa has personally said in the Bhagavad-gītā,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
(BG 7.3)

"Out of many, many millions of persons," not only in this age, in the past also…Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, "Out of many millions of persons,"kaścid yatati siddhaye, "one is trying to become perfect." Generally, they have no knowledge what is perfection. Perfection they do not know. Perfection means to stop this process of birth, death, old age and disease. That is called perfection. Everyone is trying to be perfect, but they do not know what is perfection. Perfection means this: that when you are free from these four imperfections. What is that? Birth, death, old age and disease. Everyone. Nobody wants to die, but there is forcefully: you must die. That is imperfection. But these rascals, they do not know. They think that we must die. But no. Because you are eternal, you are not meant for death, but nature is forcing you, "Must die." "Sir, I have got many business to perform." "No, immediately die." Where is your science to stop it?

Big, big scientists talking all nonsense. No. There is no remedy. They are trying to control birth, so many contraceptive method, even killing their own children, abortion—but still the population increases. Still, every minute, every three minutes or something like, one, like that; I do not know… But increasing. Therefore they are perturbed: the population is increasing. So where is your science to stop? That is not possible. So birth, death. Nobody wants to die; the death is there, forced upon you. And birth also, they want to stop. No. Birth is also going on. Birth, death and old age. Who can be free from old age? Everyone wants to remain young man, but that is not possible. Just like I was also a young man. Now I am thinking, "Oh, I am getting old. I am getting old." So where is the process? So birth, death, old age and disease. So long you are in the material body there must be disease. You cannot stop it. You can be very proud that you have manufactured very nice medicine, but why not stop the disease? So that is not possible.

So these are the imperfections of our life: birth, death, old age and disease. And science or advancement of education and so many things—what you call, big, big words, that you may go on—but still you remain imperfect, because you must die. Again, after death, you’ll take birth. And as soon as you take birth, your body also becomes older and older, and you must suffer from disease. This is called imperfection. But they have become so dull that they cannot understand. They cannot imagine that one can be perfect against this imperfection. They do not know it.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to give you perfection. It is not ordinary movement. Perfection. You will have… After giving up this body, if you complete your business of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this life, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

janma karma me divyam
yo jānāti tattvataḥ...
(BG 4.9)
janma karma me divyam
yo jānāti tattvataḥ
tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
naiti mām eti kaunteya
(BG 4.9)

It is said by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, Everything, whatever knowledge you are getting, it is directly from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Perfect knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
(BG 7.3)

Because they do not know what is perfection. They are so rascal, they are so in the…, so much in darkness that they do not know what is perfection. They think the death must be there. They have no… Because they do not know how to stop death. They do not know. So in this world of fools and rascals who do not know what is perfection, they are simply thinking, "So long I live, let me live very opulently, and let me dance like the dog. That is perfection." No. Perfection means you must stop birth, death, old age and disease. That is perfection.

So out of many thousands of people, one is expert how to stop this imperfection.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
(BG 7.3)

And out of many such persons who are actually trying for perfection, out of many thousands,

yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

Kṛṣṇa says, "One who has attained perfection, and out of many such people, many hundreds and thousands, one may know Me."Kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. Just see how to understand Kṛṣṇa is so difficult. That Kṛṣṇa is being delivered by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Take Kṛṣṇa, immediately. Chant, dance, and take Kṛṣṇa, and eat prasādam, and go home. Just see how much efficient this movement is. Immediate. Therefore it is called pratyakṣāvagamaṁ. Yes. Those who are chanting and dancing, they are realizing. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa Himself is delivering: "All right. Take Me. It is very difficult to understand Me by..., you are so defective. But I give Myself to you. Come on." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Try to understand. Yes. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ (BG 9.2). And it is not difficult; even a child can take. You see a small child, he is offering obeisances, he is dancing, he is offering flowers. This movement, just see: from the very beginning of life. Not only one child. We have got hundreds of children in Dallas, they are being trained up. They are being trained up. They are becoming godly from the very beginning of life.

So our request is that you try to understand this pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ (BG 9.2). You can understand it very easily if you simply join with us, chanting and dancing. That's all. You don’t require to become M.A., Ph.D., D.H.C. or D.A.C. If you are, it is already very good. But even if you are not, if you have no knowledge, still if you simply join with us in this chanting and dancing, very soon, or immediately… I have already explained that this dancing, they are not paid dancer, but why they are dancing? There must be feeling. This is practical. They are feeling pratyakṣāvagamaṁ. So I am very much thankful to you that you are joining with this movement every Sunday. So this is very easy. If you continue this, and very soon you will realize God, and your life will be successful. Understanding God means that is success. Otherwise no success. Otherwise, again take birth. Dehāntara. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir (BG 2.13). You have to change this body, and you have to accept another body. And so long you continue to accept this material body, there cannot be any happiness. You may try to become happy by constructing big, big skyscraper house and possessing three dozen motorcars, but that is not possible. Happiness is not possible. That is (indistinct), be assured. If you are fool, you can think (break) …in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the fourth chapter, you will find,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha
manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
(BG 4.1)
evaṁ paramparā-prāptam
imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ...
(BG 4.2)

Kṛṣṇa says, "Long, long ago, many millions and millions of years ago, first I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god. And the sun-god, he explained this philosophy to his son, Manu. And Manu explained to his son, Ikṣvāku." In this way there is the param…, disciplic succession. Disciplic succession means the original lessons which was given by Kṛṣṇa, that should be transmitted from the original person to his disciple. So our, this Bhagavad-gītā, we have named it Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. As it is. And here, Professor Dimmock, he has also written, "The definitive English edition of Bhagavad-gītā." So we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. This is called disciplic succession. We don’t say—not like the rascals—we interpret. No. No interpretation. The rascals, they interpret. He is a rascal, as if Kṛṣṇa left Bhagavad-gītā for this rascal's interpretation. How much rascaldom it is. It is not… (indistinct) Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Kṛṣṇa, as He says... Kṛṣṇa says,

mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
(BG 7.7)

"My dear Arjuna, I am the Supreme. There is no more better authority than Me." So we are presenting this, that Kṛṣṇa is the original authority. So this is paramparāsystem. We are not changing, that "Kṛṣṇa means this; Kṛṣṇa means that." We don’t commit such rascaldom. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority. And… (aside:) What is that?

Devotee: Water?

Prabhupāda: No. Another, Kṛṣṇa says,

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
(BG 18.65)

We are teaching that you just think of Kṛṣṇa always, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa…As soon as you pronounce this sound, this vibration, immediately you remember Kṛṣṇa: "Here is Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī." So that is natural. You say "Kṛṣṇa," and if you hear, immediately you remember Kṛṣṇa's form, Kṛṣṇa's name, Kṛṣṇa's quality, Kṛṣṇa's activity, Kṛṣṇa's teaching—everything. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65). And Kṛṣṇa says, "You become My devotee." And we are teaching that. We are opening temples of Kṛṣṇa and requesting everyone, "Please become devotee of Kṛṣṇa."Man-manā bhava mad… Mad-yājī. And then after opening temple, go away and manufacture some, another philosophy—we are not such nonsense. We are worshiping. Worship. Because Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī: "Worship Me." Regularly worship, as it is prescribed in the śāstra: to rise early in the morning, to have maṅgala ārati, to offer this, to offer that, offer that—fully engaged. That is called mad-yājī.

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
(BG 18.65)

"Just offer Me obeisances." So these things, four things, that is not very difficult. Everyone can do it. Everyone can think of Kṛṣṇa always. Where is the difficulty? Our mind must be absorbed thinking something, so think of Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is perfect. This is paramparā. It is not very difficult; it is all described.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it possible for the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to change the nature of the Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Certainly. Just like if there is epidemic disease and you get vaccinated, then there is no disease for you. Similarly, the Kali-yuga may be with so many defects, but if you remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, these defects will not touch you, because you become transcendental. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

Anyone who is engaged in the service of the Lord, he is transcendental to all these material laws. He is not material. Just like this child: he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but he is also dancing, because he is already on the transcendental platform. Not that he is a child; he has to grow an old man like me, then he will dance. No. Immediately. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so perfect that immediately you become on the transcendental platform. You are not contaminated by these material laws.

Devotee: Are there any other questions?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.

Devotee (3): What is the knowledge that Kṛṣṇa revealed to Arjuna? What was that knowledge?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Madhudviṣa: He asked what is the knowledge that Kṛṣṇa revealed to Arjuna?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa asked that "You rascal, surrender unto Me." (devotees cheer and applaud) You are all rascals; you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then your life will be successful. This is the sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa's instruction.

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja
(BG 18.66)

Kṛṣṇa is not asking only Arjuna. He is asking all us, all rascals, that, “You are manufacturing so many things for becoming happy. You’ll never be happy, rest assured. But surrender to Me, and I will make you happy.” This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that's all. One line. So the one who is intelligent, he will take this process, that "I have tried my best to become happy, but everything is failure. Now let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That's all. And Kṛṣṇa also has said. It is not my manufactured thing, that I am saying everyone is rascal. Kṛṣṇa said,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
(BG 7.15)

Mūḍhās, rascals. (laughter) "Those who are rascals, they do not surrender to Me." So our only test is if anyone has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is rascal number one. Never mind he is M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C. or whatever he may be. But we take him first-class rascal, that's all, because he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. This is the test. We are simple, because we are not very educated; but we take the words of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that only these classes of men. What? Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Duṣkṛtinaḥ means one who has got merit, but the merit is being engaged for sinful activities. Just like the atomic bomb. One who has manufactured this, he has got merit, certainly, great scientist. But how he has used his merit? To kill men, that's all. "So men are being killed, sir. They are already dying. What you have manufactured?" But, "No, I have got Nobel Prize." "Why?" "I have invented something which will very quickly kill." That's all. Not slowly, but quickly. And he is offered Nobel Prize. You see? He has manufactured something. “Why don’t you manufacture something that men will not die? Then I could consider your merit.” But no; his merit is utilized for doing something sinful. That is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. These classes of men, they cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa, because they have to suffer for their sinful activities. So they cannot surrender.

Surrender means you become freed from all sinful activities.

Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa assures, "If you surrender, then I immediately give you release from all reaction of sinful life." But they will not surrender. Therefore they will continue; they will suffer. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. So mūḍhā means rascal, fool. Kṛṣṇa is giving so much opportunity, but he will not accept. Therefore mūḍhā. And narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind. This instruction can be taken in this human form of life. Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." A dog cannot do that, but a human being can do it. If he does not do it, then he's the lowest of the mankind. He is not taking the opportunity. Narādhamāḥ. But one may say that there are so many big, big men, educated, learned. Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Although they have learned so many knowledge, still, māyāhas taken. The real knowledge has been taken. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they are demons and atheists, they cannot take it.

So what can be done? Kṛṣṇa is offering all opportunities, and we, humble servant of Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to preach it. But the rascals will not accept it. What can be done? That is the difficulty. They want to continue to remain as rascals. That is. What can be done? This is the difficulty. Otherwise everything is there. If we take it…, even a child can take benefit out of it, of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That you have seen practically. But we will not take it. That is the difficulty.

Devotee (4): (indistinct)

Madhudvisa: His question was that we are all performing sinful activities, and we cannot come to the platform of knowing Kṛṣṇa as long as we have sinful activities…

Prabhupāda: No. Even if you are sinful, Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, "You surrender." Kṛṣṇa will take charge. You surrender, then Kṛṣṇa will take charge. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66): "I shall give you release from all reaction." You haven’t got to wait, that "First of all finish my business and suffering from sinful…" No. As soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa fully, "Kṛṣṇa, so long I was in darkness. Now I surrender unto You. If You like, You can kill me; if You like, You can maintain me." This is surrender. Then Kṛṣṇa takes charge. And if you continue that surrender, then you are cleansed. But if you again commit, that is your business. But if you really surrender, and as Kṛṣṇa says, you do not do, then you remain perfect even in this life. And as soon as you become perfect, you become eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. Then your all problem solved. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Everything is there.

Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how is it possible to obtain humility?

Madhudvisa: His question was, "How is it possible to obtain humility?"

Prabhupāda: That is in your hand. We are teaching that you become humble, meek, surrender. If you don’t do it, that is your... You have got the independence. That is your business. Where is the humility? You are already surrendering to so many nonsense habits. Why not surrender to Kṛṣṇa? A little intelligence, that "I have surrendered to my sense enjoyment. My senses are dictating to do something, and I am doing it. I am doing it. So my business is to surrender. So I have already surrendered to my sense activities, to my whims, to my whimsical activities. Why not surrender to Kṛṣṇa?" A little intelligence. You cannot be independent. Just like if you say that “Don’t care for the government laws.” You may say, but you have to take care. You have to take care. Similarly, you may say that “I don’t surrender to Kṛṣṇa,” then māyāis there. Māyāis there immediately, he takes charge…, she takes charge.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
mama māyā duratyayā
(BG 7.14)

Then you become servant of intoxication, this, that, so many things. But if you are intelligent, then you will understand your position, that "I have already surrendered to so many nonsense things. Why not give up this and surrender to Kṛṣṇa?" This is intelligence.

So one who has no intelligence, he will continue to suffer. What can be done? You cannot say that "I am not surrendered." You are surrendered to your dictation of the senses. But because you are foolish, you do not know that "I am working under the dictation of my senses. My masters are the senses." So, "Why not accept Kṛṣṇa as my master?" This is intelligence. You cannot be free. That is not possible. I asked this question to one big professor in Moscow, Communist. I asked him that "What is the difference between your philosophy and our philosophy? You have accepted a leader, Lenin, and we have accepted a leader, Kṛṣṇa. So, so far accepting a leader, there is no change; only in the process. So if the leader is perfect, then the process is perfect. And if the leader is a rascal, then the process is also rascal." So he could not answer. So where is the communistic movement has advanced? There is no advancement, because they have to accept one leader, surrender to somebody. But the man to whom he has surrendered, if he is perfect, then it is perfect. And if he is a rascal, then whole system is rascal. So therefore, our advice is that you have to surrender to somebody. So better surrender to the supreme perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. Then you will be happy. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)