740625 - Lecture BG 13.22-24 - Melbourne

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His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



740625BG-MELBOURNE - June 25, 1974 - 41:13 Minutes



Prabhupāda: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse)

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'pi hi
bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
sad-asad-yoni-janmasu
(BG 13.22)
upadraṣṭānumantā ca
bhartā bhoktā maheśvaraḥ
paramātmeti cāpy ukto
dehe 'smin puruṣaḥ paraḥ
(BG 13.23)
ya evaṁ vetti puruṣaṁ
prakṛtiṁ ca guṇaiḥ saha
sarvathā vartamāno 'pi
na sa bhūyo 'bhijāyate
(BG 13.24)

(03:43)

Puruṣa. Puruṣa means the enjoyer. Puruṣa. And prakṛti means enjoyed. For enjoyment two things are required: one enjoyer, and the other enjoyed. When we eat something, the eater is the enjoyer and the foodstuff is enjoyed. So here in this material world the living entity, although by nature it is to be enjoyed, but out of ignorance the enjoyed is claiming to be enjoyer. Just like from practical example, the man and woman, the man is supposed to be the enjoyer and the woman is supposed to be the enjoyed. So enjoyed means prakṛti, or female, and enjoyer means the puruṣa, or the male.

So actually, we all living entities, we are prakṛti; we are not puruṣa. That is stated in the Seventh Chapter.

apareyam itas tv
viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām
jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho
yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat
(BG 7.5)

Kṛṣṇa, after analyzing the material elements—earth, water, fire, air, mind, intelligence, ego—he concluded that "These eight kinds of prakṛti, energy, they are My separated energy. But above this energy, there is another, superior energy." Apareyam. Aparā means inferior. This matter is inferior, and the living entity, on account of having life, it is superior energy. Because the living entities, they are trying to exploit the resources of this material nature. That is going on all over the world. A country is supposed to be very rich which has become able to exploit the material resources. So this is the..., going on.

The material nature and the spiritual nature... There are two natures. So spiritual nature, the living entities, although they are to be enjoyed... Enjoyed by whom? Enjoyed by God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that bhoktā, bhoktā aham, "I am the enjoyer." Just like in this temple, who is the enjoyer? Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. We are helping to Kṛṣṇa's enjoyment. Kṛṣṇa will eat something very nice. Our business is to prepare it nicely and offer to Kṛṣṇa. He is enjoyer. He is enjoying His flute in the company of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. So His very position is enjoyer. And we are servants. We don't claim that we are on the equal level of Kṛṣṇa. That is not our philosophy. We claim to become servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of servant of Kṛṣṇa (CC Madhya 13.80). This is our position.

We don't say that... Just like Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that he is God. Their self-realization means when one realizes by their philosophy so 'ham, "I am God. I am the same." That is their philosophy. And our philosophy is so 'ham, "I am the same quality. I am not the same person, but I am the same quality." We are the samples of Kṛṣṇa, very small particle. Just like if you take a drop of ocean water and you taste it, you can understand what is that ocean, what is the taste of the ocean. But you, as a drop of the ocean, you are not equal to the ocean. You are in quality the same, but in quantity we are different.

Therefore it is common sense, one who is smaller or weak, he is enjoyed by the stronger. That is the nature, you will find. In our daily dealings, what we are doing? That... Ahastāni sahastānām (SB 1.13.47). Ahastāni. There are animals who have no hands. They have got legs. So ahastāni sahastānām. Both of we are animal. The goat, the cows, and there are many others, they are animals. We are also animals, or living entity. But those who have got hands, they eat the animals who have no hands. Ahastāni sahastānām, apadāni catuṣ-padām. And the living entities which cannot move, or who have no legs to move, just like trees, plants... They have also got legs, but that leg is meant for eating. Therefore the trees and plants are called pāda-pa. We pour water on the leg of the tree because they eat water through their legs. But that legs cannot move. Apadāni.

So apadāni, those living entities which cannot move, they are food for the catuṣ-padām, those who have got four legs—just like cows, goats and others. Phalgūni mahatāṁ tatra. Those who are weak, they are foodstuff for the strong. Phalgūni mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam (SB 1.13.47). In this way, one living entity is food for the another. Then these animal killers, they may not be encouraged, "So then we are doing nice. Because one living entity is food for another, so we are eating every, anything. Any moving animals we can eat—bird, beast, goats, cows, horse, ass, whatever is available." Yes, you can eat. But that is the natural law for the animals and uncivilized man, not for the civilized man. Because one living entity is food for another living entity, you cannot eat your father, mother or children. Why? Because you are human being, you have got discrimination. Of course, in the human form of life, in Africa, they are cannibals. They eat their grandfather as a feast. They make a feast. And, you will be not surprised, they like to eat white man. Yes. In some parts of the Africa, they, whenever they get opportunity to kidnap a white man, they like to eat very much. (laughter)

So although the nature's law is like that—one animal or one living entity is the foodstuff for another—but that should be..., there should be discrimination. So, so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we are not animals. We are perfect beings. We don't eat any living entity. Those who are lower-grade living entities, they are... This is the struggle. One living entity is the food for another living entity. That is lower-grade life. In the higher-grade life, no, they cannot kill anyone for eating purposes. Therefore in the Bible the First Commandment is, "Thou shall not kill." But all these Christians, they are violating the First Commandment. That is their business. Simply engaged in killing, big, big slaughterhouse. And they give the example that "Others are eating vegetable. That is also killing." Yes, that is also killing. But that I have already explained, that because one living entity is foodstuff for another living entity, that does not mean you shall eat your family members or any human being. No. There must be discrimination. But so far we are concerned, we are not killing anybody for eating purposes. We are eating kṛṣṇa-prasāda, foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa, and then we eat. The remnants of foodstuff we eat.

And Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26): "A leaf, a flower, fruit and liquid, milk or water, all these things within these categories, whatever a devotee offers Me in love and devotion, I eat." Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is not hungry, neither He is dependent on your supply of foodstuff. No. But still, Kṛṣṇa has become your guest. Just like you have brought Kṛṣṇa here. He is very kind. Because you are devotees, you want to serve Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa has come in your temple in a form which you can very easily serve. Kṛṣṇa does not require your service, but He is so kind that He is accepting your service. You are bathing the Deity, you are dressing the Deity, offering flowers, garland, and whatever preparation you can make, you are offering Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa has accepted your service in a form which you can handle. That is His mercy. And if you want to serve Kṛṣṇa in His gigantic form, universal form, you do not know where to catch Him. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa showed His gigantic form to Arjuna, and he was terrified: "Please again become in Your original Kṛṣṇa form." Even Arjuna, who is always constant companion of Kṛṣṇa, friend, he was also terrified by His gigantic universal form.

So Kṛṣṇa is greater than the greatest and the smaller than the smallest. That is Kṛṣṇa's greatness. Here in the material world, a thing which is very big, it cannot become small. But Kṛṣṇa, because He is the almighty God, He can become the greater than the greatest and the smaller than the smallest. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11).

So Kṛṣṇa is bhoktā and we are bhogya. It is not our position that we become Kṛṣṇa and become bhoktā. No. That is wrong conception. You cannot become the enjoyer. You are enjoyed. But when you want to imitate Kṛṣṇa and want to become enjoyer, then you are sent in this material world. This is material world. Why we are in this material world? We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We should remain with Kṛṣṇa in the spiritual world. But why we are put into this material world? That is explained there: puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. Because constitutionally a living entity is not enjoyer but enjoyed. But sometimes... Everyone here, they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is trying how to become a very big man, how to construct a very big, high skyscraper building, how to possess three dozen motorcar and how to possess so many servants, how to possess so many followers. Everyone is trying like that. This is material world. Everyone is busy. Why busy? Not for eating, sleeping. That is not problem at all. Because eating, sleeping, even the birds and beasts and insect, they have no problem. They are confident. They are depending on nature, just like we are. Because we are surrendered to Kṛṣṇa we are confident about eating, sleeping. We don't bother about that. That is not our problem.

Our problem is how to serve Kṛṣṇa honestly. This is our problem. The devotees are always anxious. Here Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and we're enjoyed. So our business is to see "How I am being enjoyed by Kṛṣṇa, by serving Him." This is devotion. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you want to enjoy this material world, you are in the material world. And as soon as you offer yourself to be enjoyed by Kṛṣṇa as servant—according to His order you serve—then immediately you are in the spiritual world. So you can become in the material world or spiritual world, as you desire. As you desire. If you want to remain in the spiritual world, this temple is the spiritual world. We are not living in Melbourne. This temple is not Melbourne. It is Vaikuṇṭha.

Devotees: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: It is Vṛndāvana. So if you stick to this temple service, Kṛṣṇa's service, then you are not in this material world. But as soon as you want to enjoy this material world, immediately you are in material world. This is your position.

So what is the business of this material world? Now, falsely we are trying to enjoy. The false enjoyer. Everyone is trying to be enjoyer. Kṛṣṇa has given little freedom: "All right. You want to enjoy. Enjoy it." But you have to be in this material world. And in the material world, as soon as you come to the material world, immediately you become contaminated by the modes of material nature. Material nature has three modes, or three qualities—good quality, passion quality and ignorance quality. Goodness, passion and ignorance. So material world means you associate with the material three qualities—goodness, passion or ignorance. And according to that, as you associate, you get a certain type of body.

Kṛṣṇa orders prakṛti, the material nature, that "He wants to enjoy in this way; you give him a suitable body like that." You... "He wants to enjoy by becoming a tiger: 'Immediately I shall jump over an animal.' " Because nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra, the weak is the food for the strong. So sometimes we think that we shall be strong like tiger or lion. Kṛṣṇa is sitting within you. He says, "All right, you become a tiger." He sees that "To become a tiger is my success life," a very strong body. They are exercising, very strong, to become very strong, stout. So Kṛṣṇa will give you, whatever you want—but in this material world. In the spiritual world you cannot become a competitor of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. In this material world you can become a false competitor of Kṛṣṇa. Your position is false. Because you are not this body, but you wanted a body like that to enjoy. Just like a pig is given a body. He wanted to enjoy stool. As a human being, possessing a human body, nobody can eat stool. But if one gets a suitable body just like pig, you can very nicely eat stool.

So why there are different types of bodies? Because you wanted a particular type of enjoyment under the influence of material nature. As already explained, there are three material nature quality—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now, we mix them. Three into three, it becomes nine. And nine multiplied by nine, it becomes eighty-one. Therefore there are 8,400,000 species of life, according to the material quality. That is explained here. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān (BG 13.22). Prakṛti-jān guṇān. To possess different types of body means to satisfy different types of desires, under the influence of the modes of material nature. Full freedom. Therefore when one is advanced in consciousness, he doesn't want to enjoy anything of this material world, any way. He doesn't desire either to become the king or Lord Brahmā or the stool, or, I mean to say, the worms of the stool.

These are the different varieties. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (Padma Purāṇa). According to our desire we get body. In the water, nine hundred thousand forms. Similarly, in the botanical garden, they have given signboard, "This is this, this is this." But there are two millions types of trees and plants. How many they know? Two million. If you search out through the whole botanical garden, hardly you will find two thousand, three thousand species. Or even find ten thousand. Still, what it is? There are two millions. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. This is knowledge.

So if we read the Vedic literature, and you get full knowledge, and the essence of Vedic literature is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, A-B-C-D. This Bhagavad-gītā is the A-B-C-D of knowledge. This is entrance examination, matriculation examination, school-leaving examination. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is graduate. When you become graduate in spiritual knowledge, then you can understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And when you have passed your Bachelor degree, when you are postgraduate, that study is Śrī-Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

So we have got three different status of reading capacity. We have got already twenty books. So don't waste your time. Try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa and what is spiritual life by reading these books. Everything is explained there. Don't associate with this material nature. If you associate with this material nature, then what will be the result? Now, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). Yoni means the source of birth. Just like we take our birth, the source is the mother. From the mother's womb we come out. That is called yoni, the source. The source is the mother. From the mother's womb we come out. That is called yoni, the source. So there are mothers—human being mother, cat mother, dog mother, this mother, so many mothers. Without mother there is no birth. And without father also, there is no birth. Therefore it is said that janame janame saba pitā mātā pāya. In every birth you will get a father and mother, because without father and mother there is no question of birth.

So here also see, sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Why one is being born through the mother of a cat or through the mother of dog or a human being or a king or a demigod? The mother, through mother you have to come out. That is called yoni. But why these different mothers? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. As he has infected the eighty-one qualities, colorful qualities of this material nature, the nature will give you a suitable body through the particular mother.

So where is this science? They have the botanical garden, but do they know what is the science why there is tree and why there is ant, why there is bird, why there is man? They have no knowledge. This material school, college, university, simply producing ordinary animal life. Actual knowledge is here in the Bhagavad-gītā. These are the... Why one is forced to accept a certain type of body? Because after death I will have to accept a certain type of body. That is natural. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As I am getting dehāntara, one body after another, baby's body, then another body, child's body, then another body, boy's body... You may say, "It is growing." Growing or not growing, it is another body. Try to understand this. This child is playing. Now he will get another body when he will be called boy. He will get another body when he will be called youth. He will get another body when he will be called old man. So why not another body? This is called transmigration of the soul. Very simple thing.

So we are getting different types of bodies according to the association with the material nature. So if you don't associate with this material nature, then you don't get all these material bodies. So how you can get out of this material nature? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you will find,

māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

One who is constantly engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, he is not associating with this material nature. He is associating directly with Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spirit.

So if you keep yourself constantly engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are not in this material world. There is no more fear of what kind of body you will get next. You will get next body go back to home, back to Godhead. This is wanted. If you go back to home, back to God, in the same style of body as Kṛṣṇa has got, spiritual body, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1)—then no more birth. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). The devotees who are constantly thinking of Kṛṣṇa, trying to understand Kṛṣṇa and engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, such personality, after giving up this body... We have to give up this body. Everyone, the cats, dogs, they will also give up body. We shall also give up body. But the difference is, a devotee after giving up this body, he does not get anymore material body.

So our request is, those who have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, don't fall down again in the material qualities. That will not help you. Remain strictly adherent to the spiritual activities, and your life will be successful.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that "Don't fall down." And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I can't understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving...

Prabhupāda: Because you have got little freedom. Why one is not coming here and going to the liquor shop? It is his desire. Because he has associated with a different type of material quality... The same man who was drinking, now, as soon as they come in our association, he becomes a saint. Why? The American government spent millions of dollars to stop this habit of intoxication, LSD. And as soon as the same man comes to our Society, he immediately gives up. Why? It is practical. Immediately. At the initiation time we ask that "You don't touch all these things." "Yes." That's all. See practically. Especially in the Western countries they are habituated to all these things: meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, gambling. How they give it up? Association. We are opening so many branches all over the world to give opportunity of association. It is not a business firm. Just to give spiritual association, chance. Why you are going the street saṅkīrtana? We are giving chance: "Come here, be saved." It is not business.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the topmost philanthropy, welfare activities to the human society. Those who are intelligent, they are understanding. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu (BG 13.22). Others, they are associating with different qualities of the material nature, and nature is prepared, "Come on, sir, you take this body." You are not scientist, so-called scientist can save you. When this body is finished, then you are under the control of material nature. Whatever body she will offer you, you have to accept. You cannot say, "No, no. I cannot accept this body." "No, no. You are nothing. You are under my grip." You have asso... Just like you contaminate with some infectious disease, you must suffer from that disease. (break) (end)