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760727 - Conversation Hindi - London

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



760727R2-LONDON - July 27, 1976 - 15:29 Minutes



(Translated from Hindi into English)


Prabhupāda: I have met you before somewhere else.

Guest: Yes I had come to meet you here some years ago. Then wherever your centers are there I go there and whatever I can do I help.

Prabhupāda: Where all have you been?

Guest: Mombassa, Montreal, New York also, the New York people also came to meet me. Our asrama is there in Haridwar and a few days ago Swami Brahmananda had come there, one who is in charge of Nairobi and Mombassa, a few days ago.

Prabhupāda: When did he come?

Guest: Four months ago.

Prabhupāda: What?

Guest: Three or four months ago, because its two months since I left that place.

Prabhupāda: Brahmananda had come there?

Guest: Yes. One who is in charge of Nairobi, Mombassa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Three or four months ago, he did not meet me in India.

Guest 1: He must have met you for sure.

Guest 2: Our Brahmananda Maharaj or theirs.

Guest 1: No, yours. The Nairobi Maybe I am forgetting the name.

Prabhupāda: That must not be Brahmananda. That must be (?)

Guest 2: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Was he lean?

Guest: No.

Prabhupāda: Oh! Then it must be Brahmananda.

Guest 1: I know him well. He used to come to my classes every day and I would to go to his. Some arrangements had to be done for the devotees and he asked me to do it and I did whatever was possible for them. I recognize him. He had come in his bus.

Prabhupāda: He came in a bus. Maybe that's his brother, Gargamuni.

Guest 1: Maybe it's him.

Guest 2: Both of them look alike

Prabhupāda: Both of them are fat.

Guest 1: So you are going to stay in London now.

Prabhupāda: No, I was leaving today. My health is not so good, cough, cold and all.

Guest 1: You have a lot of good for the world.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest 1: To get the Indian culture again to the west is very difficult work. Everyone follows the Indian way. We also had a big festival for Guru purnima.

Prabhupāda: Ok.

Guest 1: About 9000 people had come.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Guest 1: In Alexandra Palace, just now on 11 July. We are also thinking to build a small asrama and we would like that we complement you and your organization complements us and we can work cooperatively.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Guest 1: So we can do more good for the world.

Prabhupāda: Our preaching is based on kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). They don't agree. They say we are sectarian. Isn't it? Their only aim is, how can Kṛṣṇa be God? We have our God, he is God, he is God, everyone is God. That we won't agree. kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So we don't agree on this.

Guest 1: Yes there are some differences.

Prabhupāda: Then how can we reconcile, tell me.

Guest 1: Whichever point we can agree on we can do.

Prabhupāda: Not possible, it will become hodge podge. Everyone is God, how can we agree.

Guest 1: Then how about what is in our whole culture, our other gods who are there, panca deva upasana.

Prabhupāda: Deva upasana is foolishness.

Guest 1: How do you say that?

Prabhupāda: The scriptures say so, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). One who worships the other demigods is a foolish person.

Guest 1: Now you see, we have the Devi bhagavata.

Prabhupāda: Yes it is there, that's ok. Worship is not disallowed. But the person who so worships is a fool. This is the point. The worship is not allowed. It is there in the.

Guest 1: The Lord has also said,

Prabhupāda: That is another matter. To flatter you, I did not say anything, as you will get upset, I did no say this. That is another matter. But the point is this.

Guest 1: And the big big scholars like? if you talk to them, they can refute your ideology.

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot refute. We have already done all that. They . . .

Guest 1: Anyway, this is good. What you have done it could not have been done any better.

Prabhupāda: No, no, our understanding is . . . (indistinct) . . . kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. If you want the Lord, when the Lord is given then you say why He should be God? This is the difficulty. But we don't compromise.

Guest 1: That's all right.

Prabhupāda: We will only say kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.

Guest 1: The work being done is good.

Prabhupāda: We don't stop the worship of other demigods. That is not a fact. We do not disrespect them either.

Guest 1: That is very nice thing. That much is enough.

Prabhupāda: We go to all the temples of the demigods and offer our obeisances. Whatever respect needs to be given to each, will be given. Definitely.

Guest 1: That is all that is required.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahaprabhu says trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna (CC Antya 20.21, Śikṣāṣṭaka 3), Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Guest 1: Amanina mana dena kirtaniya sada harih.

Prabhupāda: Even an ordinary small ant we respect and will we not respect the big big demigods? But all this in relation with Kṛṣṇa.

Guest 1: That's all right.

Prabhupāda: Just like Durga-devi, we worship her. But how?

srsthi-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir-eka
chayeva yasya bhuvan-i vibharti durga . . .
(Bs 5.44)

Durga is the agent of creating, maintaining and destroying of the mundane world.

srsthi-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir-eka
chayeva yasya bhuvan-i vibharti durga
icchanurupam api yasya ca cestate sa
(Bs 5.44)

That "sa" is not independent, icchanurupam.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
(BG 9.10)

This is what we say. And these people say, just like Durga is there, so also Kali is there, so also Kṛṣṇa is there, he is there, she is there, I am there, you are there. This is not acceptable to us.

Guest 1: All right.

Prabhupāda: The master is Kṛṣṇa. And the rest are servants, big and small. Servants can also be big and small. This is what we believe.

Guest 1: Each one has his beliefs. All right.

Prabhupāda: No, this is based on scriptures. The Lord Himself is saying:

mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
kiñcid asti dhanañ-jaya
(BG 7.7)

We are fools, we accept this only. We don't know much scriptures. Whatever the Lord says, we accept, job is done. Things are going on fine on this understanding.

Guest 1: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: When the Lord Himself is stating mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7)

Guest 2: kiñcid asti dhanañ-jaya mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva

Prabhupāda: Then what is the need for us to go to other scriptures? We will respect everyone, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead is there, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa, full in six opulences, the Supreme Lord, aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ, that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's avatar, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said:

ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ
kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam
(SB 1.3.28)

All the other incarnations of the Lord, someone is aṁśa someone is kalāḥ, but the ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa, full in six opulences, the Supreme Lord that is Kṛṣṇa.

Guest 1: And in Hare Rama, you accept Balaramji.

Prabhupāda: No. Rama means Bhagavan or Supreme Lord. So you take it as Rama, Balarama.

Guest 1: ramante yogino 'nante

Prabhupāda:

satyānande cid-ātmani
iti rāma-padenāsau
paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate
(Padma Purana)

Guest 1: You don't accept Daśarathī.

Prabhupāda: Why not? People say all these things. Now our temple is being built in Bombay with Lord Ramachandra.

Guest 1: In Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Rama, Lakshmana, Sita.

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ bhagavan . . .
rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ . . .
(BS 5.39)

Devotee: samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: Kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

Prabhupāda: Yes, paramaḥ pumān.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
(BS 5.1)

So, the complete Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa.

And Arjuna also accepted:

paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
(BG 10.12)

This is our philosophy, this our attempt that, complete Supreme Lord is Kṛṣṇa, worship Him. It is not difficult to do.

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
(BG 18.65)

Guest 1: Mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te

Prabhupāda: Everyone can do this. There is no difficulty in this. Big big scholars can do this, the biggest fools can do this. To offer obeisances to the Lord is not difficult, māṁ namaskuru.

Bring some prasada here. How long are you here?

Guest 1: I have been here now one month. Fifteen days are left. Leicester I had 8 days programs. And now its been 10 days here in town hall. About 4000 people come daily. And in the Guru purnima program around 10000 people came.

Guest 2: That day we had our Rathyatra, on Guru purnima day . . .

Guest 1: Rathyatra . . .

Prabhupāda: We had our Rathayatra now in New York. So about 10-12000 people came. Hindu, Muslims, Muslims . . .

Guest 1: Muslims they don't go anywhere. Please try to bring them in, Maharaj.

Prabhupāda: They are there, many Muslims disciples, in Iran also.

Guest 1: is it?

Prabhupāda: in Tehran. His name was Akhtar Miyan. And now I have given him spiritual name Atreya Rsi.

Guest 1: Ok.

Guest 2: There is one here also.

Prabhupāda: What?

Guest 2: There is one here also . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes there was, but he died in an motor accident. A Muslim professor . . .

Guest 2: Does he . . . (indistinct) . . . Akhtra Miyan.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a condition that whoever becomes a disciple, four things he has to give up – illicit connections with women, and eggs, fish, meat etc he has to give up and intoxicants, he has to give up liquor etc for sure, but also bidi, tea. So whoever accepts these conditions I make him my disciple. Here nobody drinks tea. That is why it is difficult for us.

Guest 1: You have so many here, what is your difficulty?

Prabhupāda: No . . .

Guest 1: You have 10000 disciples, is it less?

Prabhupāda: Tea, we don't drink tea. Here all kinds of foodstuff is prepared but not tea.

Guest 1: If you come to Haridwar, please inform us through your ministers and we will make arrangements to welcome you in our asrama.

Prabhupāda: Of course I will go. Now energy is becoming less, over 80 years now. We have 102 centers, I stay for 2 or 3 days and then . . .

Guest 1: And the year gets over. Stay in one center for 2 to 3 days in 365 days, rest goes in travelling up and down.

Prabhupāda: But these people, these Americans boys they are helping a lot, in every way, for printing these books . . .

Guest 1: Lakhs and crores of rupees.

Prabhupāda: No, our books sell a lot, daily $60000 sales of books. Now in Hindi also, we have got, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in French, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Japanese, English is there already. So all these books are sold minimum $60,000.

Guest 1: Can I take your leave now?

Prabhupāda: Very grateful that you bought books. Please come again. Are we going tomorrow?

Devotee: No.

Guest 1: Now when you come to India, we will take you from Bombay to Haridwar asrama.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: They can't . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee: They just have to listen when you preach (laughs) (end).