741224 - Lecture SB 03.26.15 - Bombay

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His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



741224SB-BOMBAY - December 24, 1974 - 36:15 Minutes



Nitāi: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

etāvān eva saṅkhyāto
brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya ha
sanniveśo mayā prokto
yaḥ kālaḥ pañca-viṁśakaḥ
(SB 3.26.15)

(break)

Prabhupāda: This chanting is chanting of the veda-mantra. Go on.

Nitāi: (leads chanting of synonyms)

(break) (03:04)

"All these are considered the qualified Brahman. The mixing element, which is known as time, is counted as the twenty-fifth element."

Prabhupāda:

etāvān eva saṅkhyāto
brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya ha
sanniveśo mayā prokto
yaḥ kālaḥ pañca-viṁśakaḥ
(SB 3.26.15)

So saṅkhyāya, saṅkhyāta, saṅkhyāyati iti sāṅkhya. This is Sāṅkhya philosophy, to know analytical study of the whole cosmic manifestation. That is called Sāṅkhya philosophy. It is physical. And the kāla is via media. And then the soul and the Supersoul. So if we understand thoroughly this analytical study of the whole thing, then we know Sāṅkhya philosophy, saṅkhyāta, Sāṅkhya, in its numerically count.

So twenty-four elements we have discussed yesterday: the five gross elements, and the five sense objects, and five knowledge-gathering senses and five working senses—twenty—and four internal senses—twenty-four—and then again, all under the control of time, the fifth, er, twenty-fifth. And above these there is the soul and Supersoul. That is spiritual. These are all material, analytical study of the material composition of this cosmic manifestation. This is called Sāṅkhya philosophy.

So here there is one word, brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya. These twenty-four or twenty-five material elements is covering the Brahman, and therefore he is called saguṇa. There are two words generally used: saguṇa and nirguṇa. Saguṇa means material, and nirguṇa means spiritual. So in the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna is advised to come to the platform of nirguṇa. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna (BG 2.45). That is the aim of life. We are also Brahman. We are part and parcel of Brahman, Supreme Brahman; therefore we are also Brahman. Brahman realization is not very difficult thing, provided we want to realize. And how we want? You take instruction from the Bhagavad-gītā, and if you accept it, then immediately your Brahman realization is there. Kṛṣṇa says that "These jīvas, they are My part and parcel." So if Kṛṣṇa is Brahman, Para-brahman, then we are Brahman. If we accept this... We have to accept, because that is the constitutional position. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.

So we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is our constitutional position to live with Kṛṣṇa. Just like the part and parcel of my body, this finger. Finger is the part and parcel of my body. It must live with the body; then it is active. And if you cut the finger and throw on the ground, you may call, "It is finger," but it is useless. Unless it is in contact with the body, acting with the body... Then it is valuable. Take any example, any machine, the screw in the machine, a very insignificant part, but so long it is attached with the whole machine, it has got value. If one screw is lost, if you have to purchase from the market, you will have to pay some value. But the same screw, if it is not attached to the machine, it has no value. Similarly, we are very insignificant spiritual spark. We are, by quality, the same because we are spirit, eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. So we also do not die, we do not take birth. And Kṛṣṇa is also: ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san (BG 4.6). He is also aja; we are also aja. But He is bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. Bhūtānām, all the living entities, He is the Supreme. Nityo nityānām. Nityo nityānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief, leader.

We require a leader. Any field of activities, we require a leader. Suppose for getting independence we had to follow one leader, Mahatma Gandhi. Therefore for guidance we require a leader. And the supreme leader is Kṛṣṇa. So if we follow Kṛṣṇa, the supreme leader, then our life is successful. And if we do not follow... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You rascal, you fool, mūḍha, you just follow Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the whole story of spiritual life. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme leader. He is also a living being, He is also person like you and me, but He is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. Therefore He is called Bhagavān. We cannot be called Bhagavān because our power is very limited, not pūrṇa. Therefore we become saguṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not become saguṇa. The Māyāvāda theory, that God, when He incarnates, He becomes saguṇa, that is wrong theory.

Here it is said that brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya ha. Saguṇasya brahmaṇaḥ, these twenty-five elements, they cover him—that means the living entity who has come in this material world. But Kapiladeva or Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, He is not saguṇa; He is always nirguṇa. Nirguṇa guṇa bhakti ca. In... The Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Although He is nirguṇa, but He is the controller of the guṇas." Kṛṣṇa is not controlled. Mama māyā guṇamayī. Kṛṣṇa says, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Mama māyā: "This māyā, this energy, is My energy." So energy is controlled by the energetic. Suppose if you have got some energy, you can control it. Suppose if you have got very good energy to kill anyone or to hurt one or to beat anyone, good strength, but that strength is not beyond you. The strength is under your control. When you like, you can use it; when you do not like, you cannot use it..., you do not use it.

Therefore this māyā, this material world, saguṇa, that is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Kṛṣṇa is not māyā's, but māyā is Kṛṣṇa's. We have to understand that way, not that Kṛṣṇa becomes enveloped or overpowered by māyā. That is wrong theory. The Māyāvādī theory is like that, that "I am Kṛṣṇa. I am God. Now I am overpowered by māyā, and as soon as I become free from māyā, again I become Kṛṣṇa." But the question is that "If you are Kṛṣṇa, if you are God, then why you became under the control of māyā? What kind of God you are?" Just like in the English Constitution it is said that "The king can do no wrong." So you cannot bring king under any law. Others will come—even if he is minister, he will come under the law—but the king cannot come under the law. This is the English Constitution.

Similarly, God cannot be under māyā. Others, everyone under the...

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

Everyone is under the control of māyā. Nobody is free. But there are two māyā: yoga-māyā and mahā-māyā. Mahā-māyā, this material world, and yoga-māyā, the spiritual world. If you agree to be under the yoga-māyā, then you are happy. Just like there are two kinds of laws: civil laws and criminal laws. You have to remain under one of these laws. But if you live under criminal law, then you go to the jail, and if you live under civil law, then you are free. But in either condition, you cannot say that "I am free of law." That is foolishness. That is foolishness. The atheist class of men, they say that "We do not believe in God." But that is craziness. You may believe God or may not believe, but you are under the stringent laws of God. That you cannot say, that "I am free." No. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). You may be very big scientist, very big man, very big prime minister. Whatever you may be, you are under the control of these criminal laws: janma, birth; mṛtyu, death; old age and disease. Then how you are independent? Where is your independence? How we can say that "You are free. You don't require to obey the laws, or dharma"?

Dharma means the laws of God. This is the simple definition of dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). So when we defy the religious principles... Religious principle means that dharma, not your created dharma. You cannot create law at home; it is given already. What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). This is dharma. All other dharmas, so-called dharmas, they are all cheating. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra: "All cheating type of religious system is kicked out, rejected." Actually, it is not required. It is simply bogus. Real dharma is here: to abide by the laws of God. That is real dharma. Then if you have no conception of God, if you have no knowledge what is the laws of God, then you are adharmika, you are simply transgressing the laws of dharma. And to transgress the laws of dharma, you are sinful, you are punishable. And that is going on. Material life means that. Material life means defying the laws of God, denying the existence of God. And one wants to become himself God. These are the material activities. So we may do so, may defy, but the laws will act. Laws will act.

So the saguṇa Brahman means the living entities. Saguṇa Brahman does not mean the God, Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān. Because even if you become servant of God... Just like there are so many nice example, that if an ordinary man beats another man, slap, he immediately becomes criminal. Law is there, "You cannot do that." But if policeman gives you a slap, it is not criminal. If you kill somebody, then you become criminal. But when a soldier kills hundreds of men, he is not criminal. The process is the same, but because one is acting on behalf of the supreme law-giver, he is immune. So that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

"Anyone who is engaged in the service of the Lord, he becomes immediately nirguṇa." Sa guṇān samatītya etān, plural number, etān guṇān, the sattva-rajas-tamo-guṇa, samatītya. Samyak-rūpeṇa atītya, atītya.

So if a devotee becomes nirguṇa immediately, as soon as he is engaged in devotional service of the Lord, how the Supreme Lord can become saguṇa? Just try to understand. Use your logic. If one becomes a devotee of the nirguṇa, he becomes nirguṇa. So why the nirguṇa God can be saguṇa? This Māyāvādī theory is not very logical, that when God comes He is saguṇa, He accepts this material body. No. That is not possible. Why He should accept material body? He is all-powerful. He can... He cannot be affected by the material laws. A man is suffering from some disease, infected. That does not mean when the physician comes to treat him he is also infected. He knows how to protect himself, disinfected.

So saguṇa, this word... The Māyāvādī theory is saguṇa worship and nirguṇa worship. Saguṇa worship means when you worship a deity, in form, that is called saguṇa worship. And when you meditate upon impersonal, that is nirguṇa. That is their theory. But meditation is not possible unless there is form. Without form, meditation means... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām (BG 12.5): "One who is trying to meditate upon the impersonal Brahman," kleśaḥ, "it is very troublesome," because we are not accustomed to concentrate our mind, meditate upon anything which is impersonal. That is not possible. We simply try to do that under labor, under trouble, kleśaḥ adhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām, whereas devotee, he immediately sees Kṛṣṇa in the temple: "Here is Kṛṣṇa. Here is Rādhārāṇī." Arcā-vigraha. Kṛṣṇa has appeared to be visible. We cannot see Kṛṣṇa, or God, by these material eyes, but as we can be seeing, as we can appreciate, as we can touch, Kṛṣṇa has accepted the form to be touched by us, to be seen by us, to be served by us. This is called arcā-vigraha. It is not idol worship. The Māyāvādī says it is imagination. No, not it is imagination. Arcā-vigraha. Vigraha. Kṛṣṇa is vigraha, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), His form.

So we should always remember, when we speak of saguṇa, saguṇa means saguṇa Brahman. Saguṇa Brahman means we, the living entities, not Kṛṣṇa, or Bhagavān. He is not saguṇa; He is always nirguṇa. Etat īśasya īśanam. This is the supremacy of the Supreme Person, that although He comes within this material world, incarnates as incarnation, He is not affected by the material qualities. That is īśanam. Otherwise how He is īśvara? Īśvara means controller. If, when He comes in the material world, if He becomes controlled by the material nature, then how He is controller? Huh? He is not controller. Then He becomes controlled. We are controlled. Kṛṣṇa is never controller..., er, controlled. He is always the controller. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Īśvara means controller. So He is the supreme controller. He is the controller of these energies also, māyā. So how He can be under māyā? This is mistaken theory. Kṛṣṇa is always supreme, Adhokṣaja. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Adhokṣaja.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
ahaituky apratihatā
yenātmā samprasīdati
(SB 1.2.6)

Adhokṣaja means beyond, avan manasa-gocaraḥ, beyond the reach of our thinking, speculation.

So Kṛṣṇa is always nirguṇa in any condition, any circumstances. But those who are mūḍhas, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). But because Kṛṣṇa incarnates, or comes, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, He comes, we think, because we are foolish person, mūḍha, we think that "Kṛṣṇa is also one of us." That is not the fact. Saguṇa Brahman, nirguṇa Brahman, we should distinguish, that Kṛṣṇa is always nirguṇa Brahman, but we are saguṇa Brahman. We are Brahman, but because we are not Para-brahman, or Supreme Brahman, we are subjected, we are prone to be covered by these material qualities. Therefore our business is again to recover ourself from these twenty-five elements, material elements. And that is only possible, as it is prescribed by Kṛṣṇa, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. What is that? Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate (BG 14.26). You just engage yourself in bhakti-yoga process, mām avyabhicāreṇa, without any mixture, without any deviation. And how it can be, deviation? Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11, CC Madhya 19.167), without any material desire, without any motive; jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, not mixed up with fruitive activities or speculative knowledge—pure, simple.

You cannot bring Kṛṣṇa under your speculative knowledge, avan manasa-gocaraḥ, because He is beyond the scope of the activities of the mind, adhokṣaja. Therefore don't try to bring Kṛṣṇa within your speculative knowledge. Speculative knowledge, how can you go? That is Dr. Frog. Dr. Frog cannot... Frog is in the well, three-feet well. How he can imagine about the Atlantic Ocean? It is not possible. Avan manasa-gocaraḥ. So don't try to speculate upon God. You will never find God. If you want to go by the speculative knowledge, trying to find out what is God just like the theosophist and many other societies—they do that, speculating—you cannot reach God by speculation. That is not. Because your senses are limited. How you can reach God, the unlimited, by speculative knowledge? That is not possible.

athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-
prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi
jānāti tattvaṁ...
na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan
(SB 10.14.29)

Ciraṁ vicinvan: "For millions and millions of years, if you simply speculate, you cannot reach what is God." It is not possible. But athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva: "One who has received a little mercy, causeless mercy, my Lord, he can understand." Little mercy.

So how the little mercy can be obtained? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). "You can get mercy of the Supreme Lord simply by devotional service, bhaktyā." He doesn't say by knowledge, jñānena, or karmeṇa. He never says. Or yogena. No. These are not the process to understand the Absolute Truth. You can make little advance, but it is... Avan manasa-gocaraḥ. What advance you can make with your limited senses? That is not possible. He is beyond the scope of my mental activities. So you cannot reach that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has recommended that "If you want to Me..., know Me, then you have to adopt this process, bhakti-yoga." And Kṛṣṇa accepts everything through bhakti. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Not these karmīs, jñānīs. He doesn't accept anything from the hands of karmīs and jñānīs. Karmīs and jñānīs cannot approach Him, what to speak of accepting their offering. That is not possible. They cannot approach Him.

Therefore bhakti means karma-jñāna-anāvṛtam. Anyābhilaṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). Don't try to approach God with your so-called speculative knowledge and fruitive activities, as people are trying to do. It is not possible. You may, by such activities, you can come to the platform of this sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa. But that is also guṇa. You remain saguṇa; you are not nirguṇa. But you require to be nirguṇa. That is bhakti. If you remain saguṇa, you may come to the platform of sattva-guṇa, the brahminical platform—satyaṁ śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam (BG 18.42). That is better platform to understand. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati (SB 1.2.19). You can understand, you can get light of the spiritual world, by sattva-guṇa. But you have to surpass the sattva-guṇa. That is called śuddha-sattva, untinted, without any tinge of these rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. In the material world you may be situated on the brahminical qualification, sattva-guṇa, but there is chance of being infected by the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Therefore it is not śuddha-sattva, pure sattva. So you have to come to the platform of pure sattva-guṇa. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam (SB 4.3.23). That pure sattva, pure sattva-guṇa, mode of goodness, is called vasudeva, and Vasudeva, he gives birth to Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. So when you come to that platform, then you will be able to give birth to Vāsudeva. That means you will meet Vāsudeva. Śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam. This is the process.

So saguṇa, saguṇa Brahman, brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya, here it is said. Brahmaṇaḥ saguṇasya ha etāvān eva saṅkhyātaḥ. The living entity is entrapped. This body is the combination of these twenty-five elements. So that is for the living entity, saguṇa Brahman. Saguṇa Brahman means living entity. But it is not for Kṛṣṇa. And again, sanniveśo mayā proktaḥ. So mayā proktaḥ means Bhagavān is speaking. Bhagavān is not saguṇa. Here Kapiladeva says, mayā proktaḥ: "I have described it." He knows everything. Mayā proktaḥ. We have to take knowledge from Bhagavān, not from any saguṇa Brahman. We have to take knowledge from nirguṇa Brahman. Nirguṇa Brahman is Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavān, Kapiladeva. Mayā proktaḥ.

Yaḥ kālaḥ pañca-viṁśakaḥ. And now He gives another element, kāla, because everything is going on under the influence of kāla. The past, present and future, the kāla, is eternal. Time is eternal, but we are creating our past and present and future according to our existence. The past, present, future of an ant is not the past, present of an elephant. The past, present of our is not the past, present of Brahmā. It is relative. This kāla is working relatively. Therefore this is called relative world. So this prime factor of relativity is kāla. That is the twenty-fifth element. And beyond that, there is the soul, there is the Supersoul, and above everything, Puruṣottama, the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa.

So in this way if we understand, then we become a student of Sāṅkhya philosophy. That is being taught by Kapiladeva.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)